Rounds that make you wonder, "what's all the fuss about?"

[Jason_W]

Every round has a fan base and variety is the spice of life, but every now and then there's a lot of fervor surrounding a round that honestly baffles me.

This isn't to denigrate what anyone else is into (for example, I have no problem with people who like a lot of cilantro in their Mexican food, even though it tastes like soap to me), but I just don't get it.

For me, the round I'm baffled by is the .300 Blackout. In terms of energy, it's anemic even by the standards of other specialty rounds for the AR-15 platform. With supersonic ammo it doesn't even break 2400 f/s with a very light for caliber 110 grain bullet, and subsonic, the energy figures are on par with a .357 mag fired from a handgun. I get that the velocity is suppressor friendly, but at such low speeds, wouldn't a heavier bullet with a larger frontal area be more effective than a skinny .30 cal bullet that probably won't expand?

Again, not to knock anyone's personal preference, I just don't get all the fuss around this rising star of the cartridge world.

 

[Cannibul]

There's LOTS of cartridges that make me wonder. The .300 Blackout is on that list, There's also lots of shooters that make me wonder. Guys who think they need a .300 Win Mag to shoot these dog sized deer here in Texas.

 

[mjsdwash]

well yea, the 7.92x33 revolutionized modern war, or the 7.62x39 killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of people over the decades. But those rounds had an outstanding 60-100 FPS advantage (akm, Russian steel 122gr ammo runs about 2340 and lower in my experience), and .002"/.015" bigger bullet, so I guess the 300 is just a joke. In reality, the 300 is the simplest big game legal caliber to stuff in an AR in my area, and the reason I like it is supers take $.06 worth of powder and a $.04 bullet, free cases. Loaded round runs about 12 cents. I don't really understand why people call it wimpy. Many US soldiers have been shot with its ballistic twins, and few of them brushed it off. Now the 45GAP, or .357 sig I can't understand

 

[stoky]

The .300 BLK is optimized for suppressors and in that role it's pretty good. It's subsonic on purpose, so the crack of the bullet can't be heard. Toward that end, it's best with heavy bullets and fast powder.
A flat trajectory isn't one of it's attributes.

 

[Jason_W]

well yea, the 7.92x33 revolutionized modern war, or the 7.62x39 killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of people over the decades. But those rounds had an outstanding 60-100 FPS advantage (akm, Russian steel 122gr ammo runs about 2340 and lower in my experience), and .002"/.015" bigger bullet, so I guess the 300 is just a joke. In reality, the 300 is the simplest big game legal caliber to stuff in an AR in my area, and the reason I like it is supers take $.06 worth of powder and a $.04 bullet, free cases. Loaded round runs about 12 cents. I don't really understand why people call it wimpy. Many US soldiers have been shot with its ballistic twins, and few of them brushed it off. Now the 45GAP, or .357 sig I can't understand

I wouldn't call it a joke. Maybe over-hyped is as far as I'd go. Noted about it being the simplest deer legal round (in some areas) to put into the AR.

Agreed on the .45 GAP, but I think the .357 Sig was an interesting idea that just never grew legs.

 

[Jason_W]

The .300 BLK is optimized for suppressors and in that role it's pretty good. It's subsonic on purpose, so the crack of the bullet can't be heard. Toward that end, it's best with heavy bullets and fast powder.
A flat trajectory isn't one of it's attributes.

But wouldn't something in the vein of .50 beo or .458 SOCOM be even better suppressed?

 

[Cannibul]

With a heavy bullet going subsonic it's basically an expensive .45 ACP, albeit with slightly better ballistics.

 

[Captcurt]

I have wondered about this too. What's the big deal about the WSM's, the 6.5's, the WSSM's the Nosler throat burners. None of them do anything that the old calibers didn't do. I understand that the short action rifles are supposed to be stiffer and more accurate, but does that justify another cartridge that mimics an old timer like the Swede? I think not. Don't get me wrong. I have been on a 6.5 kick and have had a Swede, 260, and 3 Creedmoors which, basically, are identical in a modern rifle. My goto gun for several years was a 300WSM but I cannot tell the difference in it and a 300 Win Mag or a 30-06 for that matter. I have come to the point that I really don't care what caliber it is as long as it will cloverleaf 3 shots at 100 yards from a sandbag. Then I know that when I miss it is my fault.

 

[hdwhit]

Jason_W wrote:
For me, the round I'm baffled by is the .300 Blackout.

Me, too.

My first centerfire rifle was an M-1 Carbine. I liked my Carbine. I shot my Carbine. I loaded for my Carbine. It has all of the M-1 Carbine's advantages (small, low recoil) and all its disadvantages (low energy, rainbow trajectory). As far as I am concerned, the .300 AAC Blackout is the AR world's answer to the M-1 Carbine.

 

[ATLDave]

I have been on a 6.5 kick and have had a Swede, 260, and 3 Creedmoors which, basically, are identical in a modern rifle. My goto gun for several years was a 300WSM but I cannot tell the difference in it and a 300 Win Mag or a 30-06 for that matter. I have come to the point that I really don't care what caliber it is as long as it will cloverleaf 3 shots at 100 yards from a sandbag. Then I know that when I miss it is my fault.

The advantage of the 6.5's is the higher BC bullets available and the ability to drive them fast without punishing recoil. That doesn't really matter at 100 yards. That starts to matter at several hundreds of yards.

 

[Walkalong]

I don't understand people who fuss about calibers they don't like or don't want. Just pick something you like. Don't waste energy on negativity.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I don't understand people who fuss about calibers they don't like or don't want. Just pick something you like. Don't waste energy on negativity.

I don't think it's negativity as much as a mental exercise or talking shop.

For me, I never got all these new cartridges like the 6mm or 6.5mm creedmoor. They are great, but I always thought they were almost the same as the .243 Winchester or .260 Remington. It's just minor details, and the former is hot and new while the latter is boring and old.

 

[Jason_W]

I don't understand people who fuss about calibers they don't like or don't want. Just pick something you like. Don't waste energy on negativity.

Just a way to stir the pot a little and hopefully trigger friendly debate and lighthearted barbs on a gun forum during a slow day at work.

I don't consider the existence of ant round to an affront to all that's good and holy. Well, except for maybe the .270 Win. Long story.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Well, except for maybe the .270 Win. Long story.

Funny... I find that all of the .30-06 family (or .30-03 really..) cartridges as my favorite... including the .25-06, .270, .30-06, and .35 Whelen. I basically think they can do everything better than all the other smaller short actions or bigger magnum actions.

Looks like I'm about to get heated on this debate.......

 

[Jason_W]

Funny... I find that all of the .30-06 family (or .30-03 really..) cartridges as my favorite... including the .25-06, .270, .30-06, and .35 Whelen. I basically think they can do everything better than all the other smaller short actions or bigger magnum actions.

Looks like I'm about to get heated on this debate.......

Haha. They're extremely capable rounds. The .270 is just a bad association for me. The first centerfire rifle I got to hunt with at age 14 was a hand me down Savage 110E that came with the patented recoil enhancing stock.

It didn't fit me at all and of all the hard kicking guns I've fired since, it's logged in my memory as the most painful rifle I've ever fired.

 

[redneck2]

Guys wanna get all torqued up about the latest, greatest whatever. Well, there are simple laws of physics. Doesn't matter the case size, etc. You can change the shoulder from 27 1/2 to 28 degrees and it usually changes little if 150 grain bullet at 2,600 impact velocity is pretty much the same from any 30 caliber rifle. You can change the case shape size, shoulder angle, whatever. 2,600 fps is 2,600 fps. Doesn't matter the case configuration. Laws of physics and all that.

The latest, greatest SAUM, WSSM (contrary to marketing hype) weren't any more "efficient" than anything else. They just ran higher pressures to achieve marginally higher velocity. Laws of physics and all that.

You only get more velocity by burning more powder or increasing pressures. Laws of physics and all that.

 

[denton]

There are some that I just don't understand.... 22 WMR for instance. If 22LR is not enough, step up to 223. The 280, I think, was designed to fill a very narrow niche between the 270 and 30-06. If the niche were not so narrow, it would be a much more popular chambering. 25 ACP is just so lame.

 

[Jason_W]

There are some that I just don't understand.... 22 WMR for instance. If 22LR is not enough, step up to 223. The 280, I think, was designed to fill a very narrow niche between the 270 and 30-06. If the niche were not so narrow, it would be a much more popular chambering. 25 ACP is just so lame.

I think I read once that Massachusetts doesn't allow centerfire rifles for larger varmints like coyote. If there are places where state or local ordinances dictate something similar, that could be where the magnum rimfires have a niche.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I have wondered about this too. What's the big deal about the WSM's, the 6.5's, the WSSM's the Nosler throat burners. None of them do anything that the old calibers didn't do. I understand that the short action rifles are supposed to be stiffer and more accurate, but does that justify another cartridge that mimics an old timer like the Swede? I think not. Don't get me wrong. I have been on a 6.5 kick and have had a Swede, 260, and 3 Creedmoors which, basically, are identical in a modern rifle. My goto gun for several years was a 300WSM but I cannot tell the difference in it and a 300 Win Mag or a 30-06 for that matter. I have come to the point that I really don't care what caliber it is as long as it will cloverleaf 3 shots at 100 yards from a sandbag. Then I know that when I miss it is my fault.

In my opinion yes it is worth doing for the short action. I love having that performance in a short action handy rifle. I grew up with long actions like the 30-06 but now I always use short action rifles for hunting now and most of the time a WSM caliber. Now when I shoot a long action rifle I'm like wow, this seems so clunky.

 

[natman]

In reality, the 300 is the simplest big game legal caliber to stuff in an AR

You've hit it on the head. A LOT of people like the AR and want to hunt with it. It seems backwards to me to pick the rifle first, then try to make it suitable for big game. To my way of thinking you should pick a cartridge suited to the game first, then find a suitable vehicle for it.

 

[mjsdwash]

You've hit it on the head. A LOT of people like the AR and want to hunt with it. It seems backwards to me to pick the rifle first, then try to make it suitable for big game. To my way of thinking you should pick a cartridge suited to the game first, then find a suitable vehicle for it.

for better or worse, the AR is the way people are introduced to firearms. The Assault Weapon Ban had the very effect it was intended, and that is to create a gun culture gap, and make people loose interest. That was far more the intention that crime against police reduction. Now people's first introduction to firearms is through video games, military, veterans, or the internet, and all those point to the AR. I was not a fan until one day I sad 'what the hell, I'll see what its all about'... and now I know what its all about. Best ergonomic, lighter than a bolt rifle, more accurate than a lever rifle, quick follow up, and most importantly, the best open sites you'll find. Given that the 44-40, and .357 in rifle have excellent reputations on common game, it seems like a slightly more energetic round with a better ballistic coefficient would do the job. Either way, hunt with a rifle you can carry, and can hit with. BTW ive never understood the idea of an AR weighing over 7.5LB, except long range target rifles. I see people with HBar carbines running 8LBs and wonder why myself

 

[mjsdwash]

I wouldn't call it a joke. Maybe over-hyped is as far as I'd go. Noted about it being the simplest deer legal round (in some areas) to put into the AR.

Agreed on the .45 GAP, but I think the .357 Sig was an interesting idea that just never grew legs.

A little bit of sarcasm there. I like the 300, and am putting a barrel together part by part, slowly. Its big appeal to me is that I can cast bullets and use about 8 different powders that sit on the shelves during the panic. I get a little confused when I hear people ramble about the 300 being wussy, by the same people that say the 3% more powerful x39/x33 are so vastly better than the 5.56 by their proven combat reputation (though not in this specific post but we've all seen it on the internet) I think the issue is the .357 sig has enough power to do what a 9mm can do, but not enough to go to the next step. That is there's nothing a 9 can't humanly kill that a .357 sig can. That and its not anywhere near the power of a 357 mag's original loading seems like dirty marketing to me. I think the reason it never caught on was because it was not reloader friendly, with its weird bullets, weird headspace -since corrected- and brass that can't be formed from its parent case. In the even the round failed, the owners are stuck sizing down jacketed 357 bullets to get the bearing surface, and cutting down 10mm brass. A new round like the BO comes out and the industry can say HEY buy this rifle, and if you cant buy ammo in a year because the industry stops supporting it, who cares, its the most common bullets/cases/powder to find. The Sig though.... can't say that.

 

[rskent]

For me, the round I'm baffled by is the .300 Blackout.

I know a number of guys that have built AR’s in .300 Blackout. I asked each one what they wanted the Blackout for? The answer is always the same. It’s great suppressed. Then I ask, do you have a suppresser? With one exception, the answer is always No. One guy did tell me it was a great AR pistol round. I have no idea. The Blackout is probably not ever gonna be on my “to buy” list.

Variety is the spice of life, for sure. If you want a Blackout or anything else you sure don’t have to justify it to me.

Now the 45GAP, or .357 sig I can't understand

The .357 sig is on my list. A G23 with a spare 357 barrel. Just sounds like fun to me. I don’t own a 40 or a 357. It seems like something to have some range fun with.

The 45GAP is something that I hoped would get at least some traction. A 45 in a smaller framed gun seems like a worthy endeavor. It also seems like it would be a reloaders dream. There just doesn’t seem to be enough of them around to justify the expense of getting into it. Too bad for me. Does anyone besides Glock make a 45 GAP gun?

 

[Ks5shooter]

Crafting ammo to me,is almost as fun as shooting my crafted ammo. So bring on the wildcat and oddball chamberings. I get to build or buy another firearm and reload for it. Life is good

 

[Elkins45]

If you cast your own bullets the Blackout is the best AR round. There are tons of good 30 caliber molds, all the way up to 247 grain HP. During the banic I was shooting suppressed 300 BO for less per round than what people were paying for 22LR from the gougers.

If you want cheap trigger time on the AR platform, cast bullets in the Blackout is definitely the way to go. All you need is a barrel, dies and a $20 Lee bullet mold.