Mandatory Magazine Safety!?!

[Ginny]

I have been looking around and can not find anything. I had heard that for a handgun to be on the eligibility list for California in 2007, it has to have a Magazine Disconnect Safety. Has anyone else heard this or have any information on this. I can't find anything, so I'm hoping it's wrong.

Thanks!

 

[Ginny]

Sorry

Never mind! I found it while doing a search for the 2006 changes. It's actually there in black and white ... I can't believe it! I was looking forward to the new models that were being designed for the military trials ... I heard some cool stuff about a couple of new Glocks. I guess they won't be sold in California!!!



SB 489 (Stats. 2003, ch. 500) (Scott)

Requires that effective January 1, 2006, no semiautomatic center-fire pistol model may be added to the roster of handguns certified for sale in California unless it has a chamber load indicator or, if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism. No rimfire semiautomatic pistol that has a detachable magazine may be added to the certified list of handguns for sale in California unless it has a magazine disconnect mechanism. Effective January 1, 2007, no semiautomatic pistol may be added to the roster unless it has both a chamber load indicator and, if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism. Handgun models that have been placed on the roster prior to the new requirements becoming operative may remain on the roster without these features (PC §§ 12126, 12130).

Exempts the sale, loan, or transfer of any semiautomatic pistol that is to be used solely as a prop in a motion picture, television, or video production by an authorized agent of the entity producing the production or event from the requirements pertaining to the roster of handguns certified for sale in California (PC § 12132).

 

[MaterDei]

I hope that gun makers don't add this 'feature' to all their weapons so that they can sell their wares in Cali.

Let me guess, LEOs can buy anything whether it's on the 'list' or not. Or do they have to comply as well?

 

[Ginny]

Well ... I have my finger's crossed. We can buy AR-15's so I hope we can buy off the list handguns. That's not the point, thought. A magazine disconnect safety has nothing to do with the California drop test and it does not make a handgun any safer. I just can't believe that is going to be the new requirement!

 

[MaterDei]

Gun control is about people control, it has nothing to do with making guns safer. Never has unfortunately.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

You'll most likely find that LEO guns will be *exempt* from this ssaaaftteyy feature. After all they might need that 1 in the chamber very badly while doing a tactical reload.

You on the other hand, lowly peasant, will never have need of that shot being avalible to you.

This has nothing to do with the officers, they're mostly good folks that want to go home after work just like we do. But the fact that the politicians see this as a safety feature for the general public, but a liability for LEOs is so hipocritical that it's laughable.

 

[Cousin Mike]

I especially liked this part...

Exempts the sale, loan, or transfer of any semiautomatic pistol that is to be used solely as a prop in a motion picture, television, or video production by an authorized agent of the entity producing the production or event from the requirements pertaining to the roster of handguns certified for sale in California (PC § 12132).

So basically, movie stars are allowed to play with whatever they want - especially if it makes the state (or someone important, like a director) some money. Only you commoners have to deal with restrictions... for your own collective safety, of course.

Hooray, California - for keeping the common man in his place!

 

[Kaylee]

no semiautomatic center-fire pistol model may be added to the roster of handguns certified for sale in California unless it has a chamber load indicator or, if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism.

Now, I may just be optimistically reading this.. but does that mean if you DO have a "chamber load indicator" that you don't need the magazine disconnect? If so, a dash of red paint on the extractor would prolly solve the problem for the Glock.


CA... ugh.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

I downloaded a manual from Sturm-Ruger for a 22/45 pistol. The breakdown and assembly of the gun requires a number of trigger pulls. In the new manual, every trigger pull step is preceded by inserting a (hopefully empty) magazine, and followed by removing the mag.

I assume the new 22/45's have a magazine lock "feature", as my old 22/45 doesn't need the magazine inserted to pull the trigger.

The 22/45 is a bit of a pita to disassemble and reassemble, mostly involving rotating the gun to get the hammer strut to dangle at the correct angle, finally "docking" it into the mainspring cup. I'm glad I clean it once a year, whether it needs it or not.

Regards.

 

[Old Fuff]

Now, I may just be optimistically reading this.. but does that mean if you DO have a "chamber load indicator" that you don't need the magazine disconnect? If so, a dash of red paint on the extractor would prolly solve the problem for the Glock.

No such luck... :banghead:

What they are saying is that any pistol that has a detachable magazine must have a disconector. If the magazine isn't detachable (and I don't know of any being currently manufactured) then that pistol doesn't have to have a disconector.

The Socialist/Democrats in California hope to impose their views on manufacturers that don't want to give up the California market, which has been a big one. This has little to do with safety, and everything to do with making handguns more complicated and expensive. If the manufacturers comply they will come up with more requirements. From their point of view they can't lose. One way handguns become more complicated and expensive for all of us, and if on the other the gunmakers tell them to go to a very warm place, California residents won't be able to buy new pistols - a situation they would love to see... :banghead:

At the moment Smith & Wesson and Sturm-Ruger have pistols that will meet the 2007 requirements. It will be interesting to see what others do, especially those that make 1911-style guns.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Kaylee,

You didn't read down far enough:

Effective January 1, 2007, no semiautomatic pistol may be added to the roster unless it has both a chamber load indicator and, if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism.

 

[Kaylee]

oh.. eeew. So much for misguided optimism.

Yeah, it's less a measure for "safety" than driving manufacturers out of the CA market I agree.

Much more of this and you'll need three licenses, an impossible-to-get police chief sign off, and a couple K a year in fees to have a kid's cap gun.

What's really needed is a bill that says all LEOs are subject to the same restrictions as everybody else for any weapon not staying locked up in the department. End the "some animals are more equal than others" nonsense.

 

[Old Fuff]

What's really needed is a bill that says all LEOs are subject to the same restrictions as everybody else for any weapon not staying locked up in the department. End the "some animals are more equal than others" nonsense.

So long as a state's government is controled by left-wing Socialists (California being an example) what you propose simply won't happen. As is in England, they think the ideal way is one where only the ruling government has weapons. A resident living in such a political environment has two choices - either move, or stay and live with it. It all depends on what the individual thinks is most important.

On the other hand, those that live elsewhere should make it clear that if the gun manufacturers muck up their products with California add-ons they woun't buy them. At the moment I have ZIP interest in S&W and Ruger pistols as they are currently being produced.

 

[bouis]

As a clarification, I pulled the statute up on Westlaw and here's what it says:

§ 12126. "Unsafe handgun" defined

(4) Commencing January 1, 2006, for a center-fire semiautomatic pistol that is not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not have either a chamber load indicator, or a magazine disconnect mechanism.

(5) Commencing January 1, 2007, for all center-fire semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not have both a chamber load indicator and if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism.

Also, to confirm Ben's fears:

The Senate Daily Journal for the 2003-2004 Regular Session, page 2482, contained the following letter dated September 10, 2003, from Senator Jack Scott, regarding the intent of Stats.2003, c. 500 (S.B.489):

"Dear Senator Burton:

"The purpose of this letter is to clarify the intent of my bill, SB 489, that was passed by the Senate yesterday and enrolled to the Governor.

"SB 489 requires most new models of firearms introduced for sale in California after 2007 to have both a chamber load indicator (which indicates to users whether the firearm is loaded) and a magazine disconnect safety mechanism (which prevents firearms with removable magazines from discharging when the magazine is removed).

"It is my intent to clarify that nothing in SB 489 should be interpreted to increase liability or otherwise expose local governments, law enforcement agencies or peace officers to any additional theory of civil liability. Law enforcement is specifically exempted from the provisions of SB 489, as it is exempt from the current 'unsafe handgun' law in Penal Code section 12125 et seq., because peace officers have strenuous and ongoing training in use of their duty weapons.

"Also, law enforcement has special needs for and from their duty weapons. It is perfectly reasonable, for example, for law enforcement to use firearms either with or without magazine disconnect safeties. It is not the intent of SB 489 to limit or proscribe the choices of firearms available for law enforcement, or to create civil liability for law enforcement for its failure to use certain firearms.

"To prevent any possible interpretation that existing law or SB 489 exposes law enforcement to liability for using firearms that are not on the roster of 'Not Unsafe Handguns' established under Penal Code section 12131, I intend to author legislation that will preclude such a legal theory. In fact, I have amended my bill, SB 166, for that purpose. SB 166 will be heard by policy committees next year.

"Sincerely,

"JACK SCOTT

Jack Scott info here (surprise, surprise, he's a Demmycrat): http://Democrats.sen.ca.gov/templat...berPage&pg=senhome&sln=Scott&sdn=21&zrn=Zone/

 

[migoi]

Oddly enough...

the Honolulu PD thinks of the magazine disconnect as an essential feature on the firearms it issues its patrol officers. The standard pistol of the HPD is the S&W 5906. It has a magazine disconnect.

As was explained to me by an officer the purpose is that if an officer gets in a struggle for his gun, he simply drops the magazine, lets the other dude have the non-functional item, whoops up on the guy for while using his OC and baton, recovers the firearm, retrieves new mag from belt, and then he's back in business.

I don't work as a police officer, I don't know how sound this line of thinking is...it's what I was told.

migoi

 

[Librarian]

Just to add one clarification:

If a manufacturer continues to pay the annual fees, any model on the list today can stay on it - e.g. Glocks on the list do not fall off because they do not have mag disconnect or loaded chamber indicator or both.

But a NEW model, say the G21 Slimline rumored to be coming, needs those features so it can be ADDED to the list.

 

[Leanwolf]

Gunowners in Kalif. need to understand that the eventual -- and long sought -- goal of the communistnazis who have controlled Kalif.'s Legislature/Senate, and many of the cities councils and county supervisors for years, is to confiscate the firearms of ALL the Kalif. worker peasants.

I lived in Los Angeles for 35 years and worked in the "gun fights" for many years. After the Prop. 15 Initiative fight in 1982 in which we "won," (about the last fight we "won"), the communistnazis went full bore, no holds barred, nuts-guts-and brains, to destroy the Rights of the Kalif. gun owners.

There has not been a single Legislative session in which various prohibitions against the gun owning worker peasants, have not passed and been signed by whomever was the Gov. at the time. Made no difference the political party of the Gov., he signed 'em. RINO Gov. Pete Wilson, a slimey, mealy mouthed little opportunist, signed every single anti-gun bill sent to him, except one, in the eight years he was Gov.

There's an old saying I learned many years ago, growing up in the South. "Life is hard by the yard but it's a cinch by the inch."

The communistnazis learned long ago they could not just ban and confiscate our firearms "all at once." Soooooo, step by step, inch by inch, by inch by inch, they move inexorably to their final goal.

It's all about power. Complete, total, raw, unabated, unrestrained, unchallenged POWER by the communistnazis over the unwashed worker peasant rabble.

So... if you live in Kalif., understand that one of these days, the communistnazis will ban whatever firearms you own.

FWIW.

L.W.

 

[aryfrosty]

Left coast BS laws...

I agree with what nearly all have said in this regard. I am compelled to admit that it troubles me to see someone jump right astraddle the issue of what cops have vs what the rest of us have. I feel that everyone who carries and uses guns should have equal access, but can there not be less cop hoppin'....I mean, the statement by MaterDei came out of the blue...leave the cop issue out of it until someone sees the law being unequal and THEN jump on them. After what the California cops did in New Orleans, taking an elderly woman's legally owned revolver by force, I don't think they should be allowed to carry anything except a slingshot. But that's another story.

 

[SoCalShooter]

My MKIII has this stupid feature, its a pain to reassemble the weapon after cleaning it. This does not make the gun any safer, chamber load indicator and magazine disconnect does not stop the idiot who did not check the weapon before he pulls the trigger, just goes to show you that they know they cant fix the people so they will fix the weapon.

DPRK the place where our dreams come true and yours gets smashed, the place where its ok for an actor to have a full auto weapon but the average citizen cannot have a pellet gun. The place where WE ARE GOING TO PROVE we are more corrupt than any other state government to date.

 

[jnojr]

I've pretty much given up on CA. I won't be here a whole lot longer. My mom just retired and is looking to move out of state within 5 years. My brother wants his son to grow up where he won't have to learn Spanish as his primary language. And I want to go on a shopping spree for assault rifles and high cap mags, pay cash, and walk out the door

 

[Zoogster]

California just wants full control of everything in the state, monopolies on big price items sold, and in terms of firearms only police able to afford them, or actors able to make taxes with them.

This reminds me some years back when I bought a motorcycle and was happy that I had found a great deal. I then learned that it was a '49 states model'. It had not dawned on me that there is seperate models of all vehicles legal to be sold in California. Even if you were to bring it up to par with CA standards the very VIN number keeps it prohibited. According to them it is for emissions, but I can assure you that this motorcycle had less emissions than even the smallest of legal cars. Or that most motorcycles for that matter have less emissions than most other vehicles on the road. Yet prohibited from registration simply because it was not made specificly for CA, until it had over 7500 miles on it.
The purpose of such law was to allow a state monopoly over its domestic product allowing CA to have absolute control over imports, and to keep its economy independent of the rest of the United States, so the state can better implement socialist policies without that pesky supply and demand rule.
SO they can charge more for something in CA and at the same time prohibit people from just finding a better deal in the rest of the USA.

Basicly the purpose of this in regards to firearms is to be able to control the price of all handguns in the state of CA independent of the rest of the country. In CA they will be able to legaly make a gun $1200 that is $400 in a neighboring state, yet ban you from shopping elsewhere.

Which of course gives them absolute control over how many guns are in CA.

 

[GeezerwithGuns]

It's only the first step

I'm almost ashamed to admit that I grew up in California. It was a totally different state then - during the 50's and 60's. It got so bad that I darn near gave up shooting and hunting completely during the late '70's and early '80's. I moved to Colorado in 1985 and I'm truly thankful now for every day I'm no longer on the left coast. California makes me want to

I'm planning to retire in Idaho next year. Not entirely because of the pro-gun climate there, but because of the politics and the attitude that big government of all kinds deserves a finger in the eye!

Make no mistake, the anti's have a long term goal and a strategy of disinformation and outright lies to get them there. Chip away, chip away, by locality (in Denver Colorado), by state (as in California). They can only be defeated by a concerted effort by "we the people." For me, the NRA provides that "voice."

 

[pax]

It's easy to bash California, for a lot of different reasons. I grew up there, and really consider it a different country than the one I live in now.

But you know what? This horrible law will affect the rest of us. What Californians are prohibited from buying by law, will not be produced for the rest of us to purchase elsewhere. These laws do have an effect on gun design, whether we like it or not.

Pro-RKBA folks have made great strides in recent years, getting shall-issue passed in so many states. While the antis have not given up fighting against CCW laws, they've shifted their focus to forcing manufacturers not to make practical, affordable designs that work.

This is the face of the gun-control battle we'll be fighting for the next decade or so. Are you ready for it?

pax

 

[limbaughfan]

what does a magazine dissconnect saftey do exactly?

 

[migoi]

It prevents...

the firearm from firing unless a magazine is fully inserted. By some it is looked at as a feature...by others as a design flaw.

migoi