Midway's Printed Flyer Prices Not Honored

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After doing business with Midway for several years, and several thousand dollars worth, last year I had my Credit card number stollen by somone who worked there. It happen when I called to inquire about a credit I didn't receive. The lady on the phone asked me for the number, expiration date and CID. I gave it to her, not unusual since I give the whole card to merchants all the time. Two days later my bank called me to tell me that there were over 23 small charges for items I dont ever buy all web offers, things like womens skin care products, Hoodia what ever the hell that is, and blockbuster online, smoking cessation, and weight loss etc. All web trial offers, I cancelled the card and the bank got on the fraud, A few days later packages of all sorts started arriving, all kinds of special offers that if you didnt sent them back they would bill you like $100. I took them to the post office and sent them back, package refused fraud.

I called Midway because for six weeks I hadn't used the card, except two days before when I called midway, it was my web purchase card.

I called Midway and told them I was certain the number was stollen there by the person I talked to. They were rude, and didnt want to hear it. I called them twice more, asking for higher memebers of management each time, but I was told basically to stuff it.

A month after that the Sherriff of the town near midway called me at work, and told me that he was investigating several instances of credit card fraud that had been reported as comming from customers of Midway USA, he didnt say wether it was by IP address, or if the bank or midway had called.

I told him the story, and he told me that the trial offers were a test and that the fraudster had set up an e-mail address similar to mine at Yahoo. I wasnt the only victim there were several.

Midway never called me to apologize, or make any amends, and I am very reluctant to do any business with them.
 
I'm with Munk and frankly he has handled this far better then I would have. You advertise a price and you honor it. A smart retailer would've given him the original price and that would've resulted in a happy,loyal munk. Might even have been motivated to post how Midway squared him away, therefore getting the kind of publicity that you just can't buy. Then take whatever measures that made sense to transition to new pricing. And to pull that during what I have to think is a pretty busy time of year, it's an almost perfect example of how NOT to handle customer service. A company gets that large, it gets arrogant and forgets what pays the bills....satisfied, return customers.
 
Of course China is buying up all the lead - they need it to make paint !

Sorry, couldn't resist.
I agree that they shouldn't have printed a price on something that is affected that much by changes. I also think they should have said "Well Sir, I see that you have ordered from us many times in the past. Let me check and see if we can give it to you at the advertised price."

But OTOH, they also can't stay in business and keep selling all of us bullets, brass, etc if they are selling stuff at less than what they're paying for it.

I'd rather have the price change than have no Midway to buy stuff from. That would hurt shooters way more than paying a little more $$ for bullets.

On the thing with the credit card scam - they were flat out totally wrong on that and they should have owned up to it. I have bought from them many times in the past but that makes me more hesitant than the issue with the changing prices.
 
I am fairly new to the reloading game but I am a happy Midway customer like most here. I agree that Midway probably should have sucked it up and honored the printed price to Munk in this case however, I don't think they have done anything wrong either. My take is Midway just got sprung with the price increase from their supplier within the last 30 days, the flyers were printed months ago. Oregon Trail is the one suffering from the fluctuating lead prices not Midway, you should be glad Oregon Trails prices haven't jumped before now. From what you have said Midway's prices have been constant for several months, no fluctuating, they didn't try to raise their price until their supplier raised the price. Sounds pretty fair to me.
 
What? No inventory?

It would seem to me if Midway had been thinking, they would have acquired enough inventory of everything they put in a flyer to cover expected demand over the life of the sale. And if they knew lead was going up fast, they should have particularly bought deep enough to cover more than expected demand if only for future profit. They aren't some mom and pop outfit, are they? Any organized business of their size should operate in a professional way.

My only experience with Midway has been less than happy, I admit. They skin you enough on the shipping and handling to cover any minor cost hikes on anything it seems to me. Of course they aren't alone in this particular money making end of retailing.
 
RE: Midway---agree with munk

I agree with Munk, if they are not going to honor the prices they themselves set out, they shouldn't have posted the prices! They admit that they put the flyers out 90 days in advance; they know prices are going up, granted, maybe the last 30 days prices skyrocketed, but even so, that is an advertised price and should be honored. Just because they put a disclaimer at the bottom that reads prices can be changed, doesn't excuse them. How would you like it if you got a flyer from a local store, went there and all the prices were suddenly much higher? And they'd use the same excuse? No, I think Midway should have given him the sales price. And, this could give them a bad rep if they don't watch it. :fire:
 
Er....anyone think Midway paid that high for the bullets? They bought some time ago- and have raised prices to meet today's market. They bought low and sold high. But, that's not my gripe. They're getting more than the standard markup. Flutuating prices going up help retailers. They get to turn over the goods at a new baseline price they did not pay for. That's the gouge.

Midway should have adjusted its method of advertising a long time ago regarding items with a wildly fluctuating price. What did they think was going to happen? Happy customers being told the bullets aren't 40 but 70 dollars??!! "Hey- it's not us- it's that evil market you know..."

The market did not advertise the product- midway did.


Their response shows where their heads are at- they point out the current market price. Ironic. No one accused them of selling too high, only in not being forthright. Ironic because Oregon Trail had current price posted.

That there is a logic leading to this unfortunate event does not mean the event is one a company wants to have happen. It is a mistake. It is not good customer relations. Forget me- tell 50,000 other shooters the bullets are 40 and then sheepishly explain who they're actually 70. How many of those shooters are going to be impressed with the market fluctuation or the 'we order our print months in advance?" Who gives a hoot?

Bottom line- a flyer from a company came to my door and did not honor the prices it advertised.
Why send it to my door at all? "We've a lot of stuff here to buy but don't know how much it costs?" "We've a lot of stuff here to buy but it's more expensive than we've said?" Quotes mine. Would you run a business like that?

A lot of folks in these forums complain when a brand new firearm fails and must be sent back to the factory. But failure is a part of the real world- it will always happen. Smith and Ruger don't want failure. Midway has been advertising prices it knew it could not meet for how long? They have been advertising what they could not do- failure.

Why are people taking Midway's side? I know midway is not evil- but they are clearly wrong.

munk
 
I have been extremely happy with Midway through the years (from the time they were a family shop in a small metal building at Midway, MO). The very fact they have written in the flyer 'Prices, specifications, and availability are subject to change without notice' seems honest enough and forthright enough to have them covered both legally and morally.

As far as inventory goes, Midway has one of the most advanced computerized inventory systems in the world (it was recently featured on the American Rifleman TV show). This is the reason they are able to stock such a huge variety of items in a realistic amount of space (their building is really quite huge). They, through studying their data bases, have determined how fast items sell and stock only enough to fill short-term needs. Doing otherwise just cost money in storage that would have to be passed on to us. Of course, in this case, the system backfired on you. But they didn't get hurt and they are in the business to make money.

The good thing about Midway is the huge variety of items they offer. Their shipping is about the quickest around and I have found them easy to deal with. I, too, have found their prices are not often the best and it may pay to shop around for reloading supplies. Graf's is a good alternative for reloading stuff.

I do have to side with Midway on this one. Yes, they have an advertised price - but they also have a related disclaimer. Better than, say, Natchez, that advertises stuff they haven't had in months and months and are unlikely to get any time soon (Winchester White Box .223 would be an example).
 
Its also like lumber prices. The lumber yard buys x-amount of lumber... bought and paid for. The price of lumber goes up that week, so they raise the price of the lumber they paid for at a lower price a month before.

And like another poster noted, inventory?... hello.

Sounds like bait & switch to me. "Prices subject to change or not". A notice of "prices valid though"... supercedes. Just sound business practice.

Midway loses this fight I'm afraid.

As Larry Potterfield always says "And that's the way it is". :scrutiny:
 
I understand the frustration of thinking something is one price but when you go to buy it is another. It happened to me with Cabelas. I went buy at the price in the reloading flyer but when i got to the store the price on Berrys bullets were about $3.00 higher than advertised. I realy wasn't surprised just disappointed.

Look at it this way, now is a good time to start casting your own. It's not as hard as you think. I have posted before that lead prices are forecasted to drop in 2008 because the lead producers and recyclers have glutted the market taking advantage of the high prices. You can see the report by going to google and typing in "lead", scroll down the page. It is a report from a London newspaper.

Midway should have posted the product # and said to call or go to the website for current prices. I do this now before placing an order. This would have saved you and midway both a lot of grief.

When i moved into my new house my shooting buddy helped me moved and laughed his ass off at all the loads and supplies i have. He don't laugh so loud now. I have 1200 pounds of lead that cost me about $100.00. I have been told that lead is selling for $1.50 per pound. Hard to believe i'm sitting on $1800.00 worth of wheelweights and linotype.

I've also heard that people were buying coils of copper wire from Home Depot and selling the new rolls for a profit. I guess HD didn't see that one coming either.
 
I think the kicker here is the definition of 'sale prices and promotions'

okay, anything anyone is selling is 'for sale' and 'on sale' right? Except in addition to the general definition of 'I am willing to part with this item for some amount of cash'...sale ALSO means 'special extra good deal'...like "20% off christmas decoration sale!"

in the same way, Promotion means such stuff as "Buy one get one free!" "Buy one get this nifty free hat!"

what that catalog date is referring to is honoring the prices of "Sale" and "Promotions" which does NOT mean anything in the catalog. It means items specifically called out as having an exceptionally good deal, and items that offer something extra with purchase.
 
Any company that does not honor its advertised prices is a company I will not do business with. They can blame it on an army of flying monkeys for all I care. But when an organization presents and advertisement, they are making an agreement with the public to sell at that price. If they fail to do so, they've broken their end of the agreement. That's all I need to know about an organization's integrity. They're willing to break agreements.

Lead prices. Oil prices. Evil army of flying monkeys, it's all the same to me.
 
If you call and talk with a representative and they explain and provide reasonable proof, I wouldn't hold them accountable for anything....unfortunately, Pb prices have skyrocketed. They cannot honor a wholesale price increase. Natchez, Wideners, Midway, Sportsmansguide, etc....,They all are good companies, cannot plan for the unplanned....I think they are very reliable.
 
... cannot plan for the unplanned....I think they are very reliable.
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Cannot plan for the unplanned? :rolleyes:

Lead, copper and brass prices have been rising for two years now.

They were not taken by surprise. If we had every Midway catalog from the last two years, we'd see a consistent rise in ammo and component prices from one catalog to the next. That's a pattern. If they cannot recognise that pattern after two years and plan for future increases, they are not competent in business.

I have bought from Midway before, and may very well again. That said, if I had the experience the OP had, or worse yet, the experience of the gent with the stolen credit card, I would have a difficult time doing further business with them.
 
It would seem to me if Midway had been thinking, they would have acquired enough inventory of everything they put in a flyer to cover expected demand over the life of the sale.
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Thats not how you do business though, you don't sell your products based on what they cost, you sell them based on what it will cost you to restock. You probably see it every day with gasoline. You're not paying the price they paid to have the tank filled, you're paying what it would cost them to refill the tank at that day's prices.
 
The salient point to be made here, IMO, is that Midway (like it or no) has a policy, flyers are printed much in advance, prices can/do go up, customers can/do get caught in the middle.

We can bite the bullet and go with increase or take our money/business elsewhere. Letting Midway know your displeasure and allowing them to make amends is the fine, too. But, it's Larry's business and he chooses how he rolls...so to speak.

Personally, I've purchased a couple of items over the years from Midway. I've never considered most of their prices anything to write home about, however. The email "specials" I get offering $20 off $200 or $300 orders just don't get a rise out of me.
 
I regretably quit using Midway years back because of a similar experience. Graf's is really a better option even if they don't quite have the stock Midway does.

My personal take is that Midway just got too big too fast and will always take the bottom line view when dealing with it's customer base.

Like I said, try Grafs. Usually their prices are better anyway.
 
I don't think what Midway did was right but gouging this ain't.

munk said:
They're getting more than the standard markup. Flutuating prices going up help retailers. They get to turn over the goods at a new baseline price they did not pay for. That's the gouge.
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Niner said:
It would seem to me if Midway had been thinking, they would have acquired enough inventory of everything they put in a flyer to cover expected demand over the life of the sale. And if they knew lead was going up fast, they should have particularly bought deep enough to cover more than expected demand if only for future profit.
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And when they have to buy the products again? Allowing a rather unlikely profit margin of 20%, that doesn't cover the restocking fees. We can take the price of one box (40$) and subtract said margin(20%), giving us 32$ a box. At the new price of 73$, Midway's price per box is 58$. They make back their original costs, plus eight bucks... but lose 18$ a box when they restock. Even if you crank the margin up to 45%, Midway still loses 15¢ a box.
 
I don't begrudge them the gouge when prices rise and they can sell existing stock at more of a profit. That happens. And that's the price of doing business and their right. They were not trying to 'gouge' me; their prices were consistant with what we expect from Midway.

This is not the first dramatic rise in ammo or projectile costs. They've had this happen before; but they still never adjusted their advertisement method.

And by definition, 'promotion' is to communicate in a positive manner. It does not have to mean sale, or two for one. EVery item in the flyer is 'promoted', the same way a constituency promotes the political candidate it wants, or my boy tries to talk his siblings into getting strawberry icecream because he likes it best.

Midway did not gouge me, though they enjoyed an increased profit margin. They continued to advertise knowing it would be false as they raised their prices beyond their ability to adjust to the ad medium. They didn't care, and as many here also think, do not see it as a moral problem. As long as there's a statement that says these prices are good as long as we say they are!!

Anytime a flier or paper used for commerical promotion lands in my mail box, I expect the prices advertised to be valid. Else, why have fliers, or communication at all with these commercial interests?

If their advertisement is designed to eventually fail, to be false, as it will with a product rapidly going up in price, they have a moral obligation not to advertise in the same way. But Midway just keeps doing it. They've decided to squeeze out all the profit from a rapidly growing in price item and customer confusion or mistrust is a price they're willing to pay. There is no law saying they had to raise their bullet rates with the price of metals; they'd made their profit. But they wanted more. And you know what? That would be fair as long as they changed their ads!! Call for price quote!!! Duh.
munk

How often is a business allowed to be wrong before we no longer trust them? I could trust Midway if it adjusted it's advertisement to reflect high metal prices; but they haven't done this.
 
That's the way flyers work. Most of the stuff in them is everyday price. They reserve the right to change the price. Lead is a commodity that rises and falls. No retailer is going to stay in business selling for less than the cost of replacement stock. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Reminds me of the business card a local pawn shop used to hand out: "We cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you". If you think you can beat the other guy at his game, you've set yourself up for an expensive lesson. If you've done your due diligence and you don't like the deal, walk. But if the whining keeps other whiners away, you've done Midway a service.
 
It seems to me that American Business has changed it's base policy to, "Customers are always right... except for when they disagree with us, then they can go to hell."
It use to be that managers knew that losing $20 on a purchase to make a loyal customer happy was worth 10-100x that in the continued business as well as all the business that satisfied customer will send your way when he runs into people who are looking to buy something that you sell.
 
Darn those consumers, actually wanting to know what the price is before they buy....expecting anyone who does business more than once to be able to present that price.

Buyer beware it always has been, and will be.


munk
 
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