Military considers recruiting foreigners

[Waitone]

1. We've been told over the past few years that the military has been meeting its recruiting and retention goals. Could it be that the Bush administration has been feeding us a line of crap concerning this?

We are meeting the goals AT THE TROOP LEVELS APPROVED BY CONGRESS.

Congress should not get a free pass when it comes to fixing blame. Neither should the president, but so far he is catching most of the flack.

 

[Manedwolf]

No. But it does make it hard to work with them in a
military environment. I used to work with one guy,
his name was Ramirez. He spoke *very* little english.
We just called him "Wey", spanish for "dude" or "man".

Might be considered un-PC, but I don't think a front-line soldier would want a shout of "RPG!" or "Sniper!" or "Medic! I need a medic!" to be answered with "Que?"

Trusting people who hate you, envy you and wish you were dead is rarely a good idea. If we go further and further down this road we're going to pay a heavy price for it.

One word as to what could happen to our native-born troops. Frag.

 

[sacp81170a]

I had a Flight Chief in Security Police who was a member of the Hitler Youth when he was a boy. He was a SMSgt getting ready to retire and that was in '88. Had Filipinos, Germans, one Austrian, etc., all good troops, all earning their citizenship through honorable military service. I can't see anything wrong with that at all.

 

[wingman]

1. We've been told over the past few years that the military has been meeting its recruiting and retention goals. Could it be that the Bush administration has been feeding us a line of crap concerning this?

2. What does this say about the United States? Could it be that our young men and women, as a whole, do not consider our country, as it currently exists, to be worth the sacrifices they'd have to make to serve in the military?

Right on both accounts in my opinion, for a super power to remain a power and stay free a draft is required. 2-We need to "stop" interfering in the business of other countries and take care of our problems.

 

[Cato the Younger]

immigrants can make very good soldiers

Dear all,
I believe in my heart that immigrants can make good soldiers, based on the experiences of my grandfather, who joined the US Army to get his citizenship. I know that all of the men of his age from our immigrant group joined the military, in order to become US Citizens. Furthermore, many of these men had served in the Wehrmacht during WWII, so they already knew how to fight- yet they chose willingly to go and fight again, because they valued getting US Citizenship so much. I believe that alot of these old-timers in our club were/are more patriotic then many natiev-born Americans- after they got out, they voted, and worked quietly, mainly as machinists. My grandfather recently died, and my grandmother still speaks with a heavy accent, however, she is so proud to be an American. I think that allowing people to earn their citizenship throught military service is thus a great option, as it will bring in people who have earned the right to be citizens, and thus treasure it more, then some who were born into it.

 

[ojibweindian]

We are meeting the goals AT THE TROOP LEVELS APPROVED BY CONGRESS.

Would it be safe to infer, then, that Congress has set an inadequate ceiling on troop levels?

From what I've gathered from the article, though, it seems that the Pentagon is actually having a problem in maintaining current manpower levels.

 

[ojibweindian]

Right on both accounts in my opinion, for a super power to remain a power and stay free a draft is required.

Actually, I don't think a draft is such a good idea. An army of men forced to fight for a country, or for policies they don't support, probably isn't going to fight well.

 

[MechAg94]

Haven't we been taking foreigners into military service since the American Revolution? There were also a lot of immigrants and foreigners in the army during the Indian Wars. This is nothing new. As was said earlier, they still have to be legal immigrants.

 

[Caimlas]

THAT is a good idea. Because, you know, it worked so well (in conjunction with the other social and economical situations of the time) for the Roman Empire. For a couple decades, before the nation dissolved.

 

[Thin Black Line]

3. Maybe we've raised a new generation of wastoids and pansies that are too moronic, cowardly, and lazy to serve.

Just to be fair and balanced, 1/2 of the men during WWII got out of serving
in any kind of uniform in any way. Granted, there was a certain level of
necessary deferments for ag and industry. I had one grandparent who
served in WWII (4 bronze battle stars) and another who had a 2000 acre
farm (along with oodles of other peoples' land he planted on) and was
directly told "you need to stay home and raise crops to feed the War effort."

Then you have the greatest generation's kids (the Boomers) who were quite
a mixed batch: Vietnam draftees who didn't really want to go, but did as
they were asked, the dodgers (either through higher ed or military niches
that were NOT going to Vietnam), and finally the Peace/Love/Pass-me-
another types. Ask yourself which type of this generation have been
chosen as the leaders and representatives of We The People. Sadly it
seems a combination of the latter two types!

The Boomer generation produced the Gen-Xers who inherited a completely
twisted consumer culture managed by: the earlier two generations. The
Greatest Gen has been by and large retired for quite a while now and it's
the Boomers who are in the major positions of government and corporate
power. They are now being slowly replaced by the Xers.

The generation the Xers have produced is the one I fear the most. This is
not to say that there aren't a lot of dedicated kids with great hearts out
there. They exist --just not enough of them.

Compare and contrast with who joined the military from the Ivy League:

During WWII HALF of Princeton's graduation class (all male) joined the military.
In 2005(?) only 7 out of nearly 300 joined the military. I have absolutely no
demographics on this small group. But it would be interesting to know how
many were female, military stipend for medical/law school, and....foreigners.
Likewise, I might bash Yale from time to time, but at least those guys served
in WWII.

Again, this is a reflection on the 100+ US males who felt they have better
things to do than consider the military. However, one only needs to look
at our national leadership to see the example they were given.

 

[ojibweindian]

If I correclty comprehend the article, the requirement of being a legal immigrant/resident would be relaxed.

 

[ojibweindian]

Thin Black Line

You're completely right.

The generation the Xers have produced is the one I fear the most. This is not to say that there aren't a lot of dedicated kids with great hearts out there. They exist --just not enough of them.

And this is most likely the reason why the Pentagon is looking to "outsource", and why I think our nation is in serious trouble

 

[Thin Black Line]

We are meeting the goals AT THE TROOP LEVELS APPROVED BY CONGRESS.

Congress could raise troop levels to 10 million and you'd still get the same
number enlisting. Again, Congress still reflects the people better then the
Executive branch....for the time being.

Congress should not get a free pass when it comes to fixing blame. Neither should the president, but so far he is catching most of the flack.

They didn't get a free pass --people lost and will lose their seats. True,
the president catches the flak for the neo-cons as a whole, but it's been
well-deserved.

Next time we go after bad guys who kill Americans let's stay on mission.
Not only will this maintain the support of the public for the cause and the
policy but guess what --it'll help recruit more volunteers.

 

[Barbara]

My father immigrated here and served in the Air Force during the Korean War prior to gaining his citizenship. His grandson is a Navy Corpsman serving with the Marines. This thread makes me grumpy.

 

[Glockfan.45]

Actually, I don't think a draft is such a good idea. An army of men forced to fight for a country, or for policies they don't support, probably isn't going to fight well.

Seemed to work well enough in WWII. I like the idea of a compulsary service period modeled after the Swiss or Israelis. Would do this country alot of good and likely do much to shape up the current generation of mostly self-centered slackers that as another poster put has been bestowed upon us by the X-ers. However for me to be totally on board with the idea of compulsary service we need to take another lesson or two from the Swiss and Israelis by minding our own freaking business when it comes to how to use said military.

 

[ID_shooting]

I want to jump in before this is locked.

I will stand next to my Foriegn-National Bro/Sis-in-arms any day of the week. Back in my Army days I served with a guy from Canada, another guy from Korea (he even did his time as a KATUSA before comming here and joining), a gal from Mexico, and countless Peurto Ricans and yes, a guy from Poland. Not one ever made me question thier right to apply for citizenship or brought dis-honor to thier uniform. I repsect every single one of them for thier service and dedication.

Immigration is what made this country great and glorious. Illegal immigration can/will tear it down. But to gripe about legal immigrants, especially Veteran immigrants, ESPECIALLY from US citizens that have never served, nope, not even close to appropriate. IMHO of course.

 

[wingman]

An army of men forced to fight for a country, or for policies they don't support, probably isn't going to fight well.

Actually some of the best soldiers I met were draftees, many stayed 20+ years, some were natural leaders and yes they bitched the entire time they served but did the job well. Freedom isn't cheap and we fail to understand that in modern America. Paid soldiers and mercenaries hired by private contractors is a bad way to go and we are lowering standards to meet goals and have yet hit bottom, but hang in we will. Soon we will outsource our military but never fear the stockmarket will remain high and all is good for America.

The idea you can pick and chose which policies you will fight for is in fact absurd.

 

[ilbob]

The US military has long accepted a certain number of non-citizens in its ranks. It is not anything new. I would not be all that worried about a small expansion of something that is already in place.

 

[longeyes]

I started this thread not to bash immigrants but to suggest that it might be a symptom of some deeper problem inside this nation.

I could have added the corollary that we now have huge numbers of "private contractors" Over There. De facto mercenaries operating outside government control, private armies for corporate interests. Another symptom.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

can anyone

who is actually in the service point out any incidence of bad things resulting from noncitezens serving? we've certainly heard a ton from folks who aren't/won't serrve about what might happen but in my dotage i tend to focus on what is rather than "it coulda happened that way"

 

[longeyes]

It's not about what's happened with the relatively tiny percentage of "foreigners" serving in the military. It's about the trend and what it says about this society.

If the military is really one more job that Americans supposedly won't do, we should all think long and hard about what our future is going to look like.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

really

good points. and well worth looking at. if i helped misdirect this thread i apologise

 

[mljdeckard]

I would rather serve alongside non-citizens who voluteered, than citizens who were drafted.

 

[Libertylover]

I used to be interested in joining the military. Then Iraq happenned. Can anyone tell me why we're there? For freedom you say? Sorry, some Iraqi's freedom isn't worth my life, not today, not any day.

I'd probably join if America stopped playing world cop, and subsequently drawing the world's hatred. But that appears to be out of the question, so I'm looking into law school.

As for raising a generation of flunkies and whatnot, I don't think that's the case. I think we're more a generation that wants to be left the hell alone to live our lives as we please. Kind of reminds me of a generation that was coming into it's own in the 1750's and 60's...

 

[longeyes]

You want to be "left alone?"

You're dreaming.

You won't be left alone by the U.S. Government or by the Islamic radicals or by the various world powers vying with us for hegemony.

The time for lotus-eating is over.