Mini-30 with a drilled sear at a pawn shop-Machine gun?

[enkindler]

Mini-30 with a drilled (blank) at a pawn shop-Machine gun?

So I was looking at a used Mini-30 at a pawn shop the other day and I pulled the trigger group off and noticed that some one had drilled the (blank) and there was significant wear on the frame where some one was obviously having more fun then the law allows. I didn't buy the gun seeing as I already have a Mini-14 but I was wondering, this rifle would be full auto with only the addition of a pin, so is it considered an illegal machine gun?


Thoughts?

Edit: removed the part name to keep this the High Road.

 

[evan price]

yep.

 

[enkindler]

That's what I thought,

I'll have to go warn the guy so he can melt down the (blank) and order another from ruger.

I feel bad for not telling him at the time but I saw that and just had to walk away from it as fast as possible. But it wouldn't be right if I didn't warn him that he has a potential legal nightmare on his hands.

Thanks!

 

[KD5NRH]

How hard is it to change the sear? Might be worth getting another one, then pointing that out to the pawnbroker, and offering to buy the gun minus the sear.

 

[Manedwolf]

Just don't buy it first. Don't TOUCH it first.

I'd not put anything past the BATFE gestapo, even a pawnshop plant for PR...they'd jump on the buyer and claim victory for the media.

 

[lee n. field]

How hard is it to change the sear? Might be worth getting another one, then pointing that out to the pawnbroker, and offering to buy the gun minus the sear.

Most or all of the trigger group parts are Ruger factory only, I'm pretty sure, and Ruger will notify the appropriate authorities if something illegal comes their way for service.

ten foot pole time.

 

[longeyes]

A machine-gun with a five-round magazine.

 

[Chipperman]

Tell the Pawn Shop owner. Then stay far far away.

Hopefully he will actually take action, but I've heard a lot of stories about Pawn Shops not caring about that sort of thing.

 

[AJAX22]

Its sad that as gun owners we have to know exactly how to turn every gun we come across into a machine gun in order to ensure that we don't accidentaly come into posession of one of these rare and 'dangerous' items.

*sigh*

way to many used guns out there have been illigally and often dangerously converted to FA.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Definitely post the pawnshop owner's response, just for our curiousity.

I've got a $5 on "you don't know what you're talking about / mind your own business / the Assault Weapon Ban ended last year" or something suchlike.


I believe this has been discussed on THR in the past: is it legitimate to report an NFA violation when it creates an undoubtedly unsafe situation?

I vote "yes". If John Smith buys it and it slamfires a full mag and injures someone, I would feel tangentially responsible if I hadn't reported it.

However, I would worry that alerting the store owner to the issue is likely to cause him to drop the price to $199 and move it quick so that nothing can be proven, or else move it to the back of the store until the heat dies down and pretend that he sent it back to Ruger for repairs.

Maybe you're better off copying the serial and just calling your local PD as an anonymous tip? Not trying to promote the Nanny State here, but a jury-rigged FA is like a used car with tampered brakes.

-MV

 

[NoPhilly]

A machine-gun with a five-round magazine.

Longeyes: is that true? Only five rounds? Hardly seems like it would be worth the conversion.

 

[Number 6]

I'm with MatthewVanitas on this one, let the shop know, and if that doesn't do anything let the appropiate authorities know.

Longeyes: is that true? Only five rounds? Hardly seems like it would be worth the conversion.

Ruger factory magazines are five rounds, but there are aftermarket 30 round magazines out there, albeit unreliable.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I have some 30 and 40 round magazines that are quite reliable. If you buy the illegal machinegun, I'll sell you one.

BTW, Ruger manufactures 20 and 30 round magazines for the Mini-14, but restricts their sale to law enforcement only. Had to do with Bill Ruger sucking up to congress to keep his precious Mini off the "semi-automatic assault weapon ban" list back in 1994. In fact, it was Mr. Ruger himself that came up with the concept of "high capacity magazines" and capacity limits.

 

[ETXhiker]

Maybe you're better off copying the serial and just calling your local PD as an anonymous tip? Not trying to promote the Nanny State here, but a jury-rigged FA is like a used car with tampered brakes.

Yikes! What if the shop owner doesn't know? Don't want to send some one to jail for something like that. Very serious stuff.

 

[enkindler]

So ya the return trip was kind of funny,

Me: Hey can I show you something on that Mini-30 I looked at before?

Pawn Broker: Sure but the price is firm

Me: You couldn't give me the gun but there is something important you should see.

I pop out the trigger group and point at the hole.

Pawn Broker: Yes so, it looks like it's in good shape.

Me: let me show you something.

So I go to the tool section and find a punch that fits the drilled hole and had told him to cycle the hammer.

Pawn Broker: Ohhhh <another word for scat>!!!!

As I said goodbye he was digging through the used punch bin looking for one to knock the pin out so I imagine it's probably been destroyed by now.

I don't know how he will fix the gun but at least he knows now and obviously knows what to look for from now on.

 

[Liberal Gun Nut]

If the receiver has been converted into an MG receiver, it can never be legal, AFAIK. I think the receiver needs to be destroyed at this point. The FFL has something on his hands that is worse than worthless. He probably didn't pay much for it if he's selling it for $200. His best bet right now is to flatten the receiver and get it off his books somehow. Maybe there's a gun turn-in program somewhere? Maybe he can notify the BATF that he destroyed it? I don't know how that part of things works. There must be some way for an FFL to destroy a gun and have it go off the books, right?

 

[enkindler]

Liberal Gun Nut:

I am NOT going to explain how to do this on a Mini-14/30 but it only requires one hole and a screw in one part. I don't know if it works but anyone who has cleaned their rifle and is mechanically inclined can figure it out.

Ruger will probably make it painful for him to get the parts but it's not my problem anymore, my conscious is clear and he seemed to care.

 

[TexasRifleman]

If the receiver has been converted into an MG receiver, it can never be legal, AFAIK. I

enkindler is correct, it has nothing to do with the receiver on a Mini.

And yes, getting parts out of Ruger is pretty much impossible. They want to have the old parts sent in and they are more than happy to "swap things out" but I have tried several times over the years to order pieces (not for that, I know what you are all thinking ) and they simply won't budge.

 

[enkindler]

I do wonder if welding the hole shut would be enough to prevent prosecution.

 

[bamawrx]

I'm thinking weld to fill hole and polish. That should take care of the problem. Too bad Ruger is not willing to sell the parts, it isn't like you can't buy fire control parts for nearly anything else at a gunshow.

 

[bamawrx]

By the way, you can buy a "competition" sear for mini-30 from gunbroker for cheap that will also solve problem. Just ditch old sear, replace, and move on.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Quote:
Maybe you're better off copying the serial and just calling your local PD as an anonymous tip? Not trying to promote the Nanny State here, but a jury-rigged FA is like a used car with tampered brakes.

Yikes! What if the shop owner doesn't know? Don't want to send some one to jail for something like that. Very serious stuff.

Do you think the local PD would go right to the ATF, or send over a squad car and say "cough it up"?

Kind of a moot point since the dealer in this case was eager to remedy the problem. But I've known a handful of pawnshop owners that would tell you to "mind your own business" and keep it on the shelf.

Some gun violations are "victimless crimes", but a tampered sear is an accident waiting to happen.

-MV

 

[carpettbaggerr]

It's not illegal unless you know it's machinegun. See Staples v. United States.

Justice Thomas delivered the opinion of the Court.

We concur in the Fifth Circuit's conclusion on this point: "It is unthinkable to us that Congress intended to subject such law abiding, well intentioned citizens to a possible ten year term of imprisonment if . . . what they genuinely and reasonably believed was a conventional semiautomatic [weapon] turns out to have worn down into or been secretly modified to be a fully automatic weapon." Anderson, supra, at 1254

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/92-1441.ZO.html

 

[ctdonath]

Yes, technically it's not illegal IF you don't know.
Unfortunately, the cost of arriving at that verdict is several orders of magnitude higher than the cost of "Hi, 911? Could you send a cop over here? I've come across something which may be serious contraband, and want an officer to take custody of it. Thanks."

 

[silverlance]

ekindle

I'm not sure what you are describing in your conversation with the FFL.

With no round to kick the hammer back and continue cycling, wouldn't the hammer simply fall and stop after trigger pull?

IOW, what would a FA sear do when dry fired as opposed to a semi-auto?