Mini-30 with a drilled sear at a pawn shop-Machine gun?

[evan price]

Reason I knew this one was, when I was a kid, the neighbor my age had an older brother with a Mini. One day we were out fooling around and he says, let me show you what I did to the Mini!

Well, a few days later, I heard from my friend that his older brother had been grounded for a month and had the Mini taken away permanently because Dad found out he had drilled & pinned the "blank" for fun.

 

[Gifted]

With no round to kick the hammer back and continue cycling, wouldn't the hammer simply fall and stop after trigger pull?

Yes, but this isn't exactly a regular conversion job. For a true conversion, you'd hold the trigger down, and cycle the bolt, and the hammer would drop. With a jerry rig like this, it's entirely possible that you don't have to pull the trigger. Someone with more technical knowledge will have to go into the details.

 

[gezzer]

And just what about a hole in a Mini-14 or 30 sear do to make it FA?

By the way it is not the sear that keeps the gun semi.

How about it was an attempt to make the trigger pull better?

I hold an 07 manufacture license and have not figured it out as quickly as a lot of the so called expert’s jumping on the question.

The truth here is the gun is NOT a FA unless it is able to fire more than one shot per trigger pull.

Love the Jr ATF agents on this board. How about the benefit of doubt for the pawnshop this is THR..

 

[Keith Wheeler]

The truth here is the gun is NOT a FA unless it is able to fire more than one shot per trigger pull.

Not true, at least according to our ATF friends.

For instance, take a semi Uzi. Cut out the "blocking bar" on the right side of the receiver. Even without having a FA bolt and trigger group, you still, in their interpretation of the law, have a "machine gun".

The complete definition includes "or can be readily modified to fire more than one shot per trigger pull..." or some similar wording. There used to be open-bolt semi-autos, until the ATF deemed they were "readily modifiable".

Ain't no "jr ATF" to this, this is legal truth.

Again, anything even slightly looking like illegal NFA stuff is bad juju.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I hold an 07 manufacture license and have not figured it out as quickly as a lot of the so called expert’s jumping on the question.

Problem here is it doesn't take a super expert to know enough to be afraid of the thing.

Our lovely friends at ATF have even deemed a shoestring a "machine gun".

The point is, having a Mini 14 trigger group that is modified from stock would certainly give the ATF reason to dig deeper if it came up, and when they dig deeper they can go to any lengths to make the gun fire more than one round.

With the mini that doesn't take anything more than slipping an empty piece of .45 ACP brass into the right spot, at least to cause a hammer follow firing "full auto" for a short period.

Having that hole drilled shows "intent" to make a machinegun, whether the person that drilled it knew what they were doing or not.

The fact that they tried would be enough to start the digging of that very deep hole and for THAT reason, I'd ot want to be the owner of that trigger group.

You don't have to be an expert to know enough to steer clear.

The owner has been warned and that should be sufficient, and it was mighty nice of the OP to show that. That should be enough.

 

[Eightball]

His best bet right now is to flatten the receiver and get it off his books somehow. Maybe there's a gun turn-in program somewhere? Maybe he can notify the BATF that he destroyed it?

That would be an awkward phone conversation.

 

[Sistema1927]

I'm confused.

Has anyone here ever had the BATF show up at their home or at the range and request to inspect their guns? If enkindler hadn't discovered this it is reasonable to assume that the pawn shop owner would have sold it to someone who would have enjoyed the heck out of it for many, many years without encountering a hassle.

After all, it wouldn't fire FA unless someone did some additional modification to it. So, why didn't enkindler MYOB?

 

[TexasRifleman]

After all, it wouldn't fire FA unless someone did some additional modification to it. So, why didn't enkindler MYOB?

Well, if he'd called the law I might agree, but just pointing that out might have very well saved someone some grief.

In your case someone enjoys the rifle forever, but if we're going to play "what if" let's go the other way.

"What if" some guy bought that rifle for a home defense weapon, and let's say God forbid he had to use it. "What if" for some reason law enforcement recognized this harmless drilled hole. The "what ifs" can take the owner down that silly ATF rathole that is best avoided to begin with.

I don't think enkidnler did anything out of line, simply pointed out something that the average gun buyer might have failed to recognize. What's the harm there?

 

[1 old 0311]

Offer him $100.00 less the "bad parts." Get the parts from gunpartscorp. Have a nice day.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Love the Jr ATF agents on this board. How about the benefit of doubt for the pawnshop this is THR..

Ouch! You got me, I'm an Enemy of All Right-Thinking People.

This case turned out not to need any intervention: the mod was not one likely to cause a runaway gun unless someone monkeyed with it again, and the pawnshop owner was honest enough to remove a questionable product from the shelf.

However, if I were to run across, say, an SKS with the firing-pin JB-welded into position for deliberate slamfire, and the pawnshop owner told me to "pound sand", then I'd say I had an obligation to call the local authorities and let them straighten it out.

This isn't a matter of "this shotgun barrel is 17.999999", I'm calling the ATF Extreme Intervention Death Squad," it's just a matter of making sure that unsafe guns are not sold to unsuspecting customers who would then injure themselves or another.

I think endkiller did the right thing.

-MV

 

[Exposure]

I just pulled the trigger group out of my Mini. I think I have figured out where to drill the hole and where to place a pin to replicate the Mini the thread starter was looking at.

However, I can only see two scenarios in doing this:

1. The hammer simply follows the bolt home without enough energy to fire the next round and start the process again.

-OR-

2. The hammer strikes early causing an out of battery ignition. Doing massive damage to the shooter and rifle.

This particular method of full auto fire would have no way to control the timing of the whole sequence. My 2nd scenario seems kind of likely since the hammer could strike before the bolt was locked up!

I sure as heck wouldn't risk my extremities or my freedom to try it! Heck, the shoestring idea seems much more reliable, and safer, than this "modification".

Maybe I am looking at the wrong thing, I geuss it might work great. Either way, it is MUCH simpler, and safer, to either rent, or save up and buy a legal full auto.

I'm with everyone else, stay away from this thing. Bad juju.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Has anyone here ever had the BATF show up at their home...and request to inspect their guns?

Yes. I have.

And they're not friendly, and they aren't inclined to follow the United States Constitution.

In fact the agents exact words were: "If you don't let us in now, we'll get a warrant and kick your door in a 3:30 am, and trash your entire house. And you KNOW we can find a judge to sign a warrant".

(I didn't let them in, I did retain an attorney, I did recieve an apology and I'm NOT going to post the entire story. But rest assured it CAN happen and, when it does, all those pithy things you post on the internet go right down your leg with the rest of the runny fecal matter)

 

[AgentOrange]

i realize this is an old thread ( im good for resurecting them.) but as far as trigger group parts for the mini 14 and mini 30, you can purchase any and all parts exept for the receiver for any mini rifle from several online sources, you dont have to order them "straight from ruger" unless you just have more money than sense. places like brownells, midwayusa,e-gunparts.com all have a full line of parts, including trigger group asseblies and individual items.

 

[Navy joe]

It's not junior ATF, sometimes it is hard to do the right thing with gunshops, especially pawns. I had to tell one several times about their FN Hi-Power with all the S/Ns ground off. The fact the shop is still in business speaks to the fact that all of the ATF are not goons. To me it is simple. With no S/N there is no way the shop processed it correctly into their bound book before taking it off pawn and offering it for sale. That means plenty more errors ought to be in the book. When the shop finally turned it over they kept the ATF guys waiting while they looked for it because they had hid it in the vault to keep from getting sold. I mainly acted to protect my 4473s since I had bought several guns there and really didn't want to see the place closed.

Besides caliber standardization the other reason I stick with what I know is I know how my guns are supposed to operate. I know what M-16 parts look like and am very careful if considering a used AR. I have no clue what to look for on Minis, AKs, FALs, etc. I have no clue about the US parts rules of sec 922. I just stay away.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

If enkindler hadn't discovered this it is reasonable to assume that the pawn shop owner would have sold it to someone who would have enjoyed the heck out of it for many, many years without encountering a hassle

Well......Now you are looking at a situation like the guy and his "misfiring" AR gave it to the friend. Let me rephrase you buy it don't know it is FA and go to the range, the fire and DUDE! the thing did a mag dump, now there are several variables:

Your range calls the ATF and sells you out (like the AR dude),

You take it home hide,destory,keep shooting,it,

You are standing next to 20 ATF and FBI agents.

All in all you just lost the price you paid on the gun and now have the major headache of defending yourself in court, or destroying the article.

 

[mekender]

If the receiver has been converted into an MG receiver, it can never be legal, AFAIK. I think the receiver needs to be destroyed at this point.

hmmmm, every AR receiver i own could be converted by adding a couple of parts... and unconverted by taking the same parts out... there would be no way to tell after the parts were removed... that being said, its only legal if it were NFA registered...

 

[dralarms]

I've only got throught he first page but something came to mind, It's a firearm, he keeps a book just like every other FFL. All he HAS to do is report it to the ATF, and give them the name of the person he got it from. End of story. Also from working in a pawn shop, if he had a 200.00 price tag on it he only paid about 50.00 for it.

 

[phaed]

that gun probably has a history you don't want to be associated with.

 

[Deavis]

I vote "yes". If John Smith buys it and it slamfires a full mag and injures someone, I would feel tangentially responsible if I hadn't reported it.

Bah, the ATF will just pay you to testify against the person you got the gun from. buy it, use it publicly, get caught, and then turn stool pigeon for the money. It worked just the other day

 

[Hkmp5sd]

hmmmm, every AR receiver i own could be converted by adding a couple of parts... and unconverted by taking the same parts out... there would be no way to tell after the parts were removed... that being said, its only legal if it were NFA registered...

If you are talking about installing M16 full auto parts, the receiver has to be modified to make the parts fit. Once modified, there is no going back.

If you are talking a registered DIAS or Lightning Link, then yes, they can be installed in a host AR-15 without any modifications to the receiver.