Mossberg v. Saiga (12GA)

[Gunfighter123]

ABear,
I do not understand what you are talking about --- are you saying the Saiga S-12 in FACTORY form points like a "bulldozer" or are you saying with a PG aftermarket stock??

 

[-v-]

I'd personally be more scared of someone coming after me with a Bulldozer than a shotgun. So I think its more of a compliment. One's merely a firearm that kills things, the other a piece of heavy machinery that kills things, destroys houses, and changes the very landscape on which it treads. Check please!

 

[lipadj46]

The Saiga (even the small-caliber rifle version) points like a bulldozer.

I hear people say things like this and ask them to elaborate and they never seem be able to reply or when they do it is never anything coherent and you can tell they never have spent enough time with a S12 to become familiar and effective with it. Honestly it only took me a couple times out to be as comfortable with the Saiga as I was with my Winchester 1400 or Rem 1187. Anyways I thing the S12's point as well as any other shotgun with a slug barrel and iron sights. I would not compare it to say a 1187 with a 28" ribbed barrel and double beads, obviously it is not made for that.

Also I am not sure who it was that keeps complaining about their sights being off. If there was something wrong with your new Remington what would you do? Get it fixed under the warranty, RAA has proven they are a "keeper" when it come to customer service. Cadiz Gun Works in Ohio handles the warranty work and are a good bunch.

 

[cbrgator]

So, clearly the Saiga 12 is an adequate shotgun. Is it worth $600?

 

[lipadj46]

So, clearly the Saiga 12 is an adequate shotgun. Is it worth $600?

Well that is the question these days. I paid around $550 for mine in January so obviously I thought it was worth it. Depends but I think if you are balking at the price maybe you should go with a tactical mossberg with the ghost ring sights and pistol grip. That is a pretty nice shotgun also. Figure with the Saiga you will have to buy least $100 in magazines then if you want to fix the trigger issues you will have to convert it which will run you $200 or so. So you really have to want a 12 gauge AK and be willing to deal with the little annoyances of the platform. I believe it is a love or hate thing.

 

[Gunfighter123]

Last month , I bought a NIB Moss 500 -- 7 rd. with extra grip -- cost was $360 and that was a deal.

So a 12ga. semi-auto AK47 for $600 sounds like a deal ---- BTW , I got my Saiga S12 almost two years ago and the price was around $400.

 

[illEagle]

Is an S-12 worth $600...

Well, let's see.

• Saiga S-12 $600 otd
• Conversion parts $200
• $800 total

When the ban comes Priceless!

YES IT IS!

 

[lipadj46]

Well for me I have:

Saiga 12: $550 (was a trade but that is what he was selling it for)
Magazines: $250
Kobra Red Dot: $250
NY Legal Stock: $80
Professional basic conversion: $300
Polychoke: $100

Total: $1530

And that is nothing compared to the guys with drums and short barrels and front end work etc. So it is a bit different then going out and spending $300 on a Mossberg 500 and being done with it.

 

[ArmedBear]

are you saying the Saiga S-12 in FACTORY form points like a "bulldozer" or are you saying with a PG aftermarket stock??

The factory rifle points like a bulldozer, to say nothing of the shotgun.

By "aftermarket PG" do you mean "modified to AK configuration" or do you mean the aftermarket stock that bolts on the end?

The AK in general points like a garden hose, not a rifle or shotgun. It's a good bullet hose, though. The factory Saiga is far worse. Certainly, and AK-modified one can only be an improvement -- but not enough to make it point as well as a Maverick 88.

 

[cbrgator]

Well, I don't know that I intend to convert the S12. There is no place around here that allows me to shoot pistol gripped shotguns. Nor do I intend to add any tactical optics. Just want something I can point and shoot if a BG comes banging down my door.

 

[Boats]

If you aren't going to convert it, then it is really not worth the freight they are commanding at the moment.

There are really two schools of combat shotgunners--traditionalists and futurists--and really, there always have been.

When everyone was "stuck" with the blunderbuss, and then the single and double barrel break actions, gauge and whatnot was probably the bigger debate.

With the advent of the slide action "pump" shotgun in the late 1800s, pump shotgun fans were briefly in the futurist crowd, and still have one foot planted in that camp even today if the disdain for the lowly pump by the engraved double crowd is any indication.

However, age brings respectability and the M1897 and the M12 and their pump action successors mostly proved their worth on the battlefields of the 20th century.

The other school is always looking for the better mousetrap. They have pushed the envelope with semi-auto and full auto shotguns. There's nothing wrong with that as long as those students realize not everyone is signed up for their adventures.

There are some semis I like and some I think are vastly overrated and correspondingly overpriced. Most are not as fast through six rounds as my old Ithaca M37 PS, which has no disconnector. My "ancient" Ithaca throws up a wall of shot that has been lawyered out of polite society.

 

[lipadj46]

The AK in general points like a garden hose, not a rifle or shotgun. It's a good bullet hose, though. The factory Saiga is far worse. Certainly, and AK-modified one can only be an improvement -- but not enough to make it point as well as a Maverick 88.

I guess I still don't get it. Before my S12 I had never touched an AK. My rifles were an M1A and Winchester 9422 and my shotguns were a Winchester 1400 and a Remington 870. I picked up the Saiga lined up the rear site with the front and fired and my slug hit the target I was aiming at and it honestly just felt like a shotgun. I don't plan on shooting skeet with it because that is not was it was designed to do. I am going to use it for turkey and deer hunting and probably use a red dot of some sort. But like a good deer or turkey shotgun you have to aim it not point like you are shooting flying birds.

 

[WardenWolf]

Saigas do a very fine job of imitating a classic rifle or shotgun feel despite what they really are. They are surprisingly comfortable.

 

[missouri dave]

I have no problems with mine either.

 

[Girodin]

How is your S-12 with slugs,Buck and birdshot ??? Mine has 100s of ast. rds. thru it and not a single FTF etc.

Mine has been flawless since the first round I put through it. My brothers hicupped early with light birdshot. This is not uncommon in brand new guns and not a huge concern.

With slugs and buckshot the saiga shines in that it is a light recoiling gun. I can shoot slugs out of it longer than I can shoot bird shot out of other shotguns I own.

I love my saiga. I can tell you it will get you way more oohs and awes than any tube fed gun I have used. Only my aug clone and PS90 have rivaled it in attention grabbing. That is good or bad depending on your desires. I will say I haven't let anyone shoot it that didn't think it was a blast and have a huge smile on their face as they handed it back.

For HD it will work fine, so will a much less expensive shotgun though. I have various other guns but keep the S12 near by with a couple mags for social work. There was a time I wouldn't have trusted an auto loader for that role but my S12 has earned my confidence.

 

[cbrgator]

I just went to a gun show and held a few Saiga 12's. Seemed like a pretty sweet little gun.

 

[eddie c-clamp]

Mine's sweet

 

[cbrgator]

Well, just put my order in. Ships Wednesday. I'm super excited.

 

[748]

To get a Made in USA fire control group, stock and pistol grip it will cost about $125 and nothing to do it your self to put it on.
Another $50 for a mag and you have the right set up to be 922r legal.

 

[SN13]

OK, Let's talk this over about Saigas.

#1, My Saiga 7.62x39 W/IRON SIGHTS shoots well enough to get "A" hits at 40 yards. I ran a stage last night and had ZERO Mikes. Compare that to guys running ARs with Optics and getting Mikes all over the place. Please quit saying "AK's Are inaccurate." or describing them as "Bullet hoses" etc.

#2 Saigas are expensive to deck-out completely. Let's face it, if you're competing and have it Converted, Choked, Optics, Magwell, etc. etc. you're looking at $2000+ (Including a few mags) But this is no more crazy than OPEN PISTOL costs. Fricken $4000+ for some of those Guns. Also, how much did you guys pay for your ARs + EoTechs, Muzzle-Breaks, Flip-up Sights, Free-float handguards, foreward grips, etc. Add it up! You're WAY over $2000. My 7.62x39 cost me $300 +$100 for the self conversion. But I guess that ARs are impractical at their cost.

Sorry guys, but if you don't like the Saigas then you probably don't own one.

~SN

P.S. If you are in the Florida Area, and would like to try out my Saigas (7.62x39, .308, 30-06, and 12ga) then by all means, send me a PM and we'll try to get together. (Fort Lauderdale or Sarasota/Bradenton Areas)


EDITED TO ADD:

If you want the FASTEST shotgun available to unload 20+ rounds, get a Saiga. If you just want simple reliability for HD, there is no REAL reason to spend the extra $$ on the Saiga over a Pump. . . Well besides the fact that for a little more $$ you can have 20 rds of 2 3/4" Slugs/Buckshot in a shotgun with an 8" barrel.

Reasons to get an S12: Capacity + Compactness. You cannot get MORE rounds in a SMALLER package than with the S12.

 

[lipadj46]

I wish there a "beating a dead horse" smilie in this forum because we are at that point I believe with all these Saiga posts