Most Rugged Designs

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TheDisturbed1

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Its been said that the whole AK-47 platform and spawns are capable of puting up with alot of the tortures that would disable a "normal" firearm. Water, sand, and even being ran over by a humvee...

I've heard that Desert Eagle's were rugged and tough.

But what do you all KNOW?

List the most rugged, durable, and dominant firearms you can think of.
 
Well, I know that with my WASR-10 (semi-auto AK clone), I've taken the cover off, packed the reciever with dirt, shook the dirt out, and then proceeded to shoot with no problems. (Anyone care to try that with their AR? :neener: ) The one Desert Ego I've fired proved to be a very finicky eater. Oddly enough, it was the WWB it liked, and not the more expensive brand that its owner brought along. I suspect the most rugged gun I own is my Stevens single-shot 20 gauge.
 
AK is not so much "rugged" as it is reliable Kalashnikov designed the mechanisms with ample clearance -- making them easy to manufacture, assemble, interchange, and use. First receivers were milled from 4.5 lbs of steel, and the Bulgarian receiver is still milled steel. Bulgarian reciever has distinctive wide, flat "scoops" in each side, making it easy to ID in photos, etc.

Heavy stamped sheet metal receivers on the AK are strong enough, but mostly they're fast to produce in a less than high-tech manufacturing plant. Because the gun is loose, it functions even when full of dirt, mud, blood, crud.

Chrome lined bore was intended to prevent corrosion when using corrosive ammo. But chrome is a nice feature in a battle gun because it's durable.

Success of the AK is that it is cheap and fast to produce, simple to operate and maintain, requires minimal maintenance. You want these features when arming a third world nation of illiterate peasants.

When taking over Saigon, Viet Cong troops were using AK's that had been buried for years . . . wood stocks had rotted away, and so the rifles were wrapped in rags.

-- Stoner's AR-15 by comparison, needs constant maintenance, is closely machined and failed in Viet Nam regularly until Dept. of Defense developed BL-C-2 powder that wouldn't gum up the gas system.

Desert Eagle is massive, but prone to jams and gumming up. It's a gas operated rotating bolt system in a handgun -- using ammo designed for a revolver. Hard to engineer a gas operated system on a handgun scale.

Rugged . . . I'd say the Mauser bolt action rifle. These receivers are still coveted for building custom rifles.

Walker pistol -- designed for Gen. Walker's troops as a "repeater" for mounted troops is a rugged gun. Until the development of the .357 magnum, the Walker was the most powerful handgun. "Outlaw Josie Wales" uses a Walker -- Eastwood's debut as the "big gun guy."

Thompson Contender is rugged. Few moving parts, single shot.

Ruger No. 1, single shot, falling block "Farquharson" action is used in the heavy caliber guns for African Dangerous Game. The Farquharson design developed in the 19th cent.

Here's "rugged" . . . No moving parts unless you count nuts on bolts or rings in eyes. 1" bore, 20" bbl. 3/4" wall -- seamless high pressure steam pipe.

Carriage is built from white oak John Deere tractor pallets. Gavanized fence hardware from the feed store . . .

Bbl. weighs 22 lbs. Carriage weighs 15 lbs.

Shoots 3 oz. lead ball w/ 500 gr. black powder. That's a 35mm film can full. Smooth bore. I don't worry much about rust/corrosion.

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Rugged is important. But how difficult is it to get parts and stuff for rifles that aren't standardized?

I looked at the Saigas, and some of the ARs that are out there, and by the time I got done building a reliable .223 rifle and outfitting it with magazines, and other stuff, I was about at what a decent AR-15 would cost anyway.

So I am looking at an AR. Rugged is great, but if something breaks, and if it is a SHTF rifle, and sees really heavy use, something will, then what do you do for spares? Cannibalize another rifle? Hope that everything isn't completely shut down? Easier to get american parts from american manufacturers, and use american ammo, if it is a shtf weapon that will be used in America. If I was in Iraq, I'd probably want an AK, or a Galil. Not here.

There is reasoning that says, well, they make a lot of parts for the AK here too, right? No guarantee of that, if there's serious fighting going on. But they will still be making parts for the AR, because our military uses it. And if we are so trashed that we're not even close to being functional, then getting the five finger deal on an AK might be the best bet.

So even though I ride a Harley, I drive a Hyundai. I like the Hyundai. The Hyundai is not my SHTF vehicle. The Harley is. Better on gas, more manouverable, and can go places other vehicles cannot. So get an AK if that is what you want. Doesn't look to me like anything is standardized. If I am wrong, correct me. But I don't think that there's much that an AK can do that an AR can't. In fact, I'd probably be willing to say that the AR has some things going for it that the AK doesn't. But I could be wrong. SO far, they've lived through Vietnam. They've lived through central and south america, and they're making it through the desert. Arctic? I imagine they'd work for that too.

My thing is that maybe the cost of the weapon up front is something you make back when buying accesories, mags, ammo, spares, sights, etc. Lighter to carry. Lighter magazines, means more ammo. Availability of magazines. Oh yes. Stuff is getting harder to find already. Ammo? What used to be cheaper is now more expensive. And visa versa. So the AR may cost more up front, but in the long run is probably the cheaper of the 2 by comparison. When you buy one, you get it configured with what you want, and you're done. Show me an AK that has standardized parts, that is built with synthetic stocks, and has the same AK reputation for reliability and availability of spares, plus runs cheaper lighter ammo, has magazines available without mods, maybe I'd look at one. Side by side with an AR, what's the price difference?

For an extra 100 between a tromix AK and a DPMS AR? I'd take the AR. Worst case scenario? You may have to change a part or 2.
 
I would not say the AK47 is tough, how tough is stamped sheet metal? I will agree it is one of the most reliable weapons out there. Tough and reliable are two different animals.

There has been a lot of testing over the years on rifle actions being stressed with high pressure loads. It has been said that the Arisaka action is probably the toughest action ever made. I am supprised more custom rifle are not built off of this action.
Here is a custom rifle with an Arisaka action I just picked up the other day.
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Walker pistol -- designed for Gen. Walker's troops as a "repeater" for mounted troops is a rugged gun. Until the development of the .357 magnum, the Walker was the most powerful handgun. "Outlaw Josie Wales" uses a Walker -- Eastwood's debut as the "big gun guy."

Powerful maybe, I'm not sure about rugged. I've heard a good share of stories about the original Colt models blowing up with some frequency.

And I thought Clint used Dragoons, but I may be wrong.
 
SAIGA

in 7.62x51 these Saigas are different than the majority (Arsenal excluded) of imported AK variants. They are built from scratch and finished and test fired in the ISHMASH (sic) factory in Russia by the folks who have been building the real thing since the first AK in 1947. They are built tougher, run smoother, hold tighter groups etc. etc. Chrome lined bores and chambers three rivets hold the front trunnion and barrel trunnions are larger (longer) and provide more support. If you are considering an AK in 5.56x45 (223) the quality choices are the Arsenal or the Saiga.
 
Sig550

My understanding is that the Sig 550 Series and now the Sig556 is built on the same gas system as the AK. While this may be incorrect, I don't have mine yet :fire: :banghead: :fire: (FREAKING DISTRIBUTING ERRORS!)

It has a great reputation for reliability ala Ak and accuracy to make an AR man jealous.

Of course if your looking for pitch it in the mud, drop it out a car or off a horse etc. I'd look at a Mini 14 or a Mini 30 depending on caliber preference.
We've dropped them off the back of a horse, out the truck and while people say they are not MOA they do keep shooting. Just a thought.
 
Single shots: Rolling Blocks, Trapdoor, double barrels...

Ruger Single action revolvers... single shots...

The fewer moving parts... the less to break.
 
Rugged

Glocks, GP100, HK USP, Rem 870, 1911 Gov't (what is was, not what it has turned into), AK's,
 
I can't think of anything tougher than a Military bolt rifle. Keep it relatively clean and it will not let you down. Essex
 
If you are considering an AK in 5.56x45 (223) the quality choices are the Arsenal or the Saiga.
I already have a Romanian in 5.56x45 :D


But I would think that the older, battle proven rifles would be very durable and fire well under almost any condition (like the Mosin-Nagant, Mauser, M1 Garand, Springfield '03, list goes on).

What about the HK Mark 23? I hope that people dont pay over $2k for a .45 thats crap...
 
capable of puting up with alot of the tortures that would disable a "normal" firearm. Water, sand, and even being ran over by a humvee...

I'd say the HK USP or Glock type firearm would fare better in these conditions.

When you don't take care of AKs, they rust and malfunction like any other weapon. The design is simpler and looser so "peasant armies" can take care of them. It doesn't make them invulnerable to abuse.
 

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The Makarov is extremely tough and rugged.
I took a NIB Mak and TRIED to make it malfunction and didn't get one gun related malfunction through a thousand rounds.
 
toughest weapons

1. Mauser 98 Pattern rifles.
these can take a hit and keep on ticking- we ran 300 rounds through one in 30 minutes (with stripper clips), to the point where the lacquer was sweating off the wood, but it just kept on ticking.
2. AK- pattern rifles
3. Original 1911 pistol.
 
What About the SKS !!!

or a single barrel brake action shotgun there are about 5+- moving parts
 
What About the SKS !!!

When it comes to semi-autos, these should be at, or near, the top of the list. But, a bolt gun (Mauser, Enfield, Springfield, Mosin) of one shape or another would probably be even more rugged/reliable. And, as mentioned, alot of single-shots might be even more rugged and reliable.
 
I thought of NEF HandiRifle and whoever's making Rolling Blocks now. They're build heavy and the less moving parts the better. Sure they won't be as fast as a semi-auto, but the question was "most rugged".

For most rugged bolt actions, IMO it's a toss-up between 98 Mausers and Lee Enfields. However, I go back to the saying that Mauser made the hunting rifle, Springfield ('03/'03A3) made the target rifle, and Lee Enfield made the battle rifle.

But in context of that saying, John C. Garand changed that with the M1. For most rugged (among how many other aspects) semi-auto, I don't think there's a AR or commie rifle that can match it.

IMO, to compare those three groups against each other is like comparing apple and oranges.
 
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