Museum Of The Fur Trade

[another pake]

Last week my wife and I took a road trip to Colorado to see relatives. On the return trip we decided to detour slightly to visit the Museum of the Fur Trade in
Chadron, NE. I've been wanting to visit there for years but hadn't until a few days ago.

If you've never been there, you should go. Simply from a firearms perspective, it's worth the time to get there as they have 350 original pieces represented. The history that is represented is of course the fur trade era. The displays and presentations are fantastic. The artifacts and collections can't be beat.

I was thrilled for hours. I studied a few guns in particular in preparation for an upcoming flintlock build that I will be doing. I was concerned before we got there that my wife would soon get bored but found the opposite to be true. She happily occupied herself with many, many exhibits depicting early life on the plains.

I highly recommend a trip to you if you've ever thought about going.

 

[Crawdad1]

I would love to go see that Museum along with many others out west but its a long way for me.

What type of rifle are you planning on building?

 

[another pake]

I am going to build a full stock flintlock. I would love to build a Hawken of that type but only one is known to currently exist, that in the Smithsonian. Nearly everyone believes that they were once available tho as the Hawken was frequently built as "special order". For that reason, I may make a "fantasy" reproduction of my own design.

The truth is tho that not nearly as many Hawkens made it to the mountains as we might imagine. There is far more evidence in available remaining examples of North West trade guns by various makers being the common choice.

I think that I will probably try to approximate a replica of a J Henry scrollguard. The museum owns two nice examples which I studied for awhile.

Either way, I'll be going back. It was worth it.

 

[iiranger]

Well, really...

My mother is from the rural Chadron area so I was past this institution many, many times before I finally stopped and went in. Many people had said to me, "if you like guns, you should go there..."

I was GREATLY disappointed.

I thought it was a collection of a couple of cowboys traps who had made a few extra dollars off skins/hides, etc. I was VERY wrong. It is a thorough presentation of the fur trade collectibles from the 1600s on when the Russians were buying out of Seattle area and the first whites, mainly French, were working down the St. Lawrence in Canada and establishing Quebec... etc.

DIAPPOINTMENT. I like guns. The guns are 95% representation of the tired old JUNK that was traded to the Indians, no doubt at rediculous profits. Muzzle loaders in sad, sad condition. Many had be remodelled by the Indians. Removing the "butt plate" -- a piece of steel-- to make some kind of scraper was SOP/ Standard procedure I am told. Then there are the repairs, broken stocks bound with wet rawhide...

By any modern standards, 95% of these guns are tired old JUNK. Yuck.

I repeat, if your interest is the history of the fur trade, then this is a GREAT RESOURCE.

Only redeeming thing for my money, toward the end there was a collection of "yellow boy" Winchesters. Lever actions. Brass frames, shiny brass frames. .45/60? I am reasonably certain these were not '73's. These were purchased/used by RCMP, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police/ The Mounties, and so marked. Would have loved to handle one.

The institution does not do a great job of advertising. In the last decades there was talk of relocating to a place nearer and interstate. GREAT resource for students of the fur trade era and, regrettably, a bit "out of the way." Now if you are a prairie dog shooter, Buffalo Gap to the N.W. Pine Ridge almost north. Rose Bud N.E. And Thunder Basin more N.W. Luck. Happy Trails.

 

[Stony]

I went through the museum a few years ago and it was fascinating. For anyone with interest in the fur trade era, there is a lot of original stuff to keep your mouth hanging open. The American Rifleman had a very interesting article on Tecumseh's fusil this month, and it's supposed to be located at the MRT now.
Strange how things happen sometimes. I attended Chadron State College and never knew the museum was there just outside of town. I guess my hormones were a little more active 50+ years ago and other interests took precedent.

 

[another pake]

iiranger,

Greetings,

I concede that the museum theme may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I am curious, since disappointment usually follows unmet hopes or expectations, what you might have expected to see there. Personally I did not expect to see cases full of pristine rifles intended for the military. Nor was I expecting new Dimicks, Lemans or Hawkens. I did expect to see what was commonly used and available, and I did, in great quantities. As to condition, yes there were all grades, some very poor and some very good, as one might expect for pieces with long lifetimes and histories.

Coincidentally, the spring quarterly of the museum has quite a nice article about the very issue of use and reuse. Their's was not a throw away society as ours has become. Nearly everything was "repurposed".

But seriously, for my education and enlightenment, if you are personally aware of significant collections of original early firearms, specifically black powder front stuffers, I would appreciate you sharing their location.

All the best,

pake

 

[expat_alaska]

I Guess You Aren't Comfortable With History

DISAPPOINTMENT. I like guns. The guns are 95% representation of the tired old JUNK that was traded to the Indians, no doubt at rediculous profits. Muzzle loaders in sad, sad condition. Many had be remodelled by the Indians. Removing the "butt plate" -- a piece of steel-- to make some kind of scraper was SOP/ Standard procedure I am told. Then there are the repairs, broken stocks bound with wet rawhide...

By any modern standards, 95% of these guns are tired old JUNK. Yuck.

By 19th Century standards, this is the real deal. I think that is what museums are all about, eh? You have a problem with a museum sample with a rawhide repaired stock? Really? Contrary to your pristine standards, and I have never been to the Chadron museum, what would you have expected? Brand new replicas of such firearms? The museum is there to display what period firearms Indian/Native American were, and as I read it, these are authentic. Feel free to go online and download pics of whatever firearm(s) you love to see in pristine condition. They are in someone else's collection, not yours or mine.

Only redeeming thing for my money, toward the end there was a collection of "yellow boy" Winchesters. Lever actions. Brass frames, shiny brass frames. .45/60? I am reasonably certain these were not '73's. These were purchased/used by RCMP, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police/ The Mounties, and so marked. Would have loved to handle one.

"Yellow Boy" was a somewhat common name for a Henry brass framed rifle, but more commonly the Winchester 1866. The 1873 Winchester was never made with a brass frame, and was never chambered in .45-60. IIRC, neither was the Winchester 1876 rifle. I believe that didn't happen until the 1886 Winchester, that was chambered as large as .45-90.

Methinks you need to study a bit more and get into replica firearms collecting. Go to gunbroker.com and look at the condition and prices of original Civil War Era pieces. I think you will be amazed.

Jim

 

[another pake]

I must say that the collection that I viewed on Monday was as good as any I've ever seen anywhere. And to me an amazing tidbit from an acquaintance who visited the Royal Armaments Collection in England recently. He was told there that if he wished to review a more complete collection of arms from that time period he could find them in Chadron, NE at the Museum of the Fur Trade.

So everything is a matter of perspective I guess.

The value of that collection of "junk" far exceeds my net worth, Of that I am certain. And I've done pretty well for myself.

YMMV.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

iiranger: I would guess that you would not like the book "Old Jules" about an early settler in the Valentine area. I happen to be interested in the real relics of our history so the Museum of Fur Trappers is on my list. I make an annual pilgrimage to Ft Laramie and also want to visit the Ft Robinson State Park for the historical preservation there. If you wish to see commercially valuable black powder weapons you should probably go to a retail store.....

 

[another pake]

Steel Horse Rider, looks like Chadron is less than 4-1/2 hours from Loveland. Very much worth it, IMO of course.

There are so many interesting things to see and learn about there...

 

[another pake]

A few comments about the site and history of the museum might be in order. And to keep things "firearms related", a word about that too.

While it may seem to us -a generation too impatient for nearly anything- to be inconveniently located. You do after all have to exit the interstate ribbon to get there, the museum is located on the site of an original trading post developed for the American Fur Company. The post was begun in 1837 in what is now northwest Nebraska. The expansive valley around the post was a common wintering location for large numbers of local natives who by now were active participants in the fur trade as it progressed from beaver to bison.

The museum has rebuilt the trading post on the original foundation stones and it is open as an exhibit to view. You will be struck, I think, to see how small a building it was and you start to contemplate life as it must have been in a new way. By the way the reconstruction of the post was done so meticulously that it has earned a spot on the National Register of Historic Places. That is quite an accomplishment for a rebuild.

The post operated more or less continuously until 1876. When gold was discovered in the near by Black Hills in 1875 things changed dramatically. As more and more "whites" moved in, the government once again pushed the natives onto reservation land. Of course in 1876 that culminated in what we remember as the Battle of The Little Big Horn.

After the battle, what was long suspected by the government was confirmed on the battlefield. The post had been supplying arms and ammunition to the plains tribes for some time as part of their business model of harvesting buffalo for the eastern markets. As the area became more settled that model no longer worked. So in 1876 the Army shut down the post and what remained of the plains tribes fled to Canada or resigned themselves to the reservations.

But it's always been about business.

 

[Iggy]

I use to do the mountain man thing and a trip to the museum was a real treat. Charles Hansen the original creator of the museum was the widely respected expert on the fur trade in this region.

His book on the Northwest trade gun and those I saw in the museum influenced my choice of one of the old muzzle loaders I carried and shot back 40 years ago.

Of course the Hawkens I saw there might have had some influence too.

 

[another pake]

Many people, me included, imagine themselves owning and using a Hawken as they move easily on a horse through the mountains. But standing in front of one and carefully studying it might produce a different response. The first thing that impresses is the size and heft of the thing. The barrel, up to 42 inches long and an inch and an eighth across the flats would make a strong man wither. And the stash of lead and powder required to keep .62 caliber rifles happy required it's own logistical plan. The Hawken by design was tougher, heavier, more apt to survive life on a horse and away from the convenience of the local gunsmith.
The originals were substantial and heavy.

 

[jcwit]

Any of you here read & study the books written by John Beard?

 

[Iggy]

Do you mean John Baird?

Yup. He identified maker of the Hawken pictured in post above for me.

I have taken an elk, antelope, and mule deer with that one.

 

[another pake]

jcwit, yes I've got copies of both of Baird's books and have studied them regularly.
Also got my own set of Gordon's 3 volume work, Great Gunmakers For The Early West. What an amazing resource that is. And just recently, while in Chadron, I picked up their relatively new work, The Encyclopedia of Trade Goods, volume 1, Firearms of the Fur Trade. Lots of historical eye candy between the last two titles.

Iggy, thanks for the PM. A useful resource to be sure!

 

[another pake]

Iggy, did you take your muley, "goat" and elk with the Hawken or the Northwest Trade gun?

Either way, that had to be fun.

 

[Iggy]

I used that old Hawken to make meat.

They'd have to be purty close and mebbe a little suicidal for that old trade gun to do the job.

Incidentally my Hawken is a right decent copy of Ol' Mariano Medina's gun. He had his gun built by Jake Hawken when he visited St. Jo. in 1833.
It was originally .54 Cal. but in later years Mariano had to have it freshed out to .58 to bring it back to shootin' tight.

I was allowed to handle ol Mariano's Hawken while it was on loan to the Denver Museum. The similarity is amazing.
The guy that made mine went to the Museum of History in Denver and took photos of the gun and pencil tracings of the stars on the stock. They are mexican coins shaped just like the stars Mariano used, shaped, and inletted into his rifle. As you mentioned Hawkens likely spent a lot of time across a saddle.

The stock on Mariano's and my Hawken are wore down plumb to the ram rod tunnel in front of the trigger guard from ridin' across a saddle. Mariano inletted and nailed a piece of metal to the belly of the fore stock to stop the wear. Mine has a "carbon copy" metal plate on it too.

Mariano then carried it enough to wear the heads of some of the nails off too.. If his has a worn nail head, mine does too.

 

[PapaG]

Visited there a number of years ago. Fabulous. Original packages of English flints, northwest trade guns (at that time we could find very few to study), clothes, traders leanto, just a great pile of history. No flash photography allowed so I really had to brace my Olympus to get good shots.
I'd go back again.