Need advice on carry style

[dadofdevildog]

I have a chance to buy a CZ 75 semicompact

REALLY like this gun, nice balance, good grouping etc.

My only concern is that the only way to engage the safety is if the piece is "cocked and locked", and I'm wondering if I really need to carry it that way.

Carried a 357 for years, the trigger pull on the CZ in the first round DA mode feels about the same to me, and I have never had a negligent/accidental discharge, so what do those of you here think about carrying this with a chambered round/safety off?

 

[TarDevil]

You'll get equal opinions on cocked and locked or hammer down. Personally, I'd carry that gun cocked and locked since the safety is there anyway. My preference in a DA/SA gun would be decock only with no safety.

 

[rcmodel]

so what do those of you here think about carrying this with a chambered round/safety off?

Just not cocked with the safety off.

It is made to be carried hammer down with the safety off - first shot DA.

Or Cocked & Locked with the safety on - first shot SA.

Whichever floats your boat.
Either is as safe as your trigger finger makes it.

rc

 

[BullfrogKen]

What rc just said.

 

[SunnySlopes]

One potential problem is that (if I'm understanding you), you carried a DA revolver for years. With that gun, you simply draw and pull the trigger.

If you suddenly start carrying a weapon that has a manual external safety, and you get into a worst case scenario, you might pull the weapon and just stand there trying to pull the trigger, not remembering that you have an external manual safety.

I'd carry the CZ with hammer down on a chambered round.

Otherwise, be sure to practice/train enough that even though you might be in a state of panic, you're not going to forget to disengage the safety, should you choose to carry that way.

 

[tyeo098]

When I was first learning to shoot from my roommate back in college he carried a CZ75 Omega, he carried it hammer down.

One day I was taking a nap and I hear BOOM!!! He was lowering the hammer on his CZ when it slipped off him thumb and did its thing.

Now I carry a CZ75B, but cocked a locked. No issues at all. Its the way it was meant to be carried.

CZ75D (D for decocker) was meant to be carried hammer down, actuated by the decocker, first shot DA.

Please do not lower the hammer on a live round as your carry method. Cocked and locked or get the D.

If you suddenly start carrying a weapon that has a manual external safety, and you get into a worst case scenario, you might pull the weapon and just stand there trying to pull the trigger, not remembering that you have an external manual safety.

With a proper grip its impossible to hold the CZ correctly without deactivating the safety, same as a 1911.
If you forget that you have a manual safety, you have other issues.

 

[browningguy]

I prefer cocked and locked, but that's because I grew up with 1911's so it's second nature to me. I simply can't shoot most of the DA/SA guns well, the long trigger pulls just throw me off when the next SA shot comes up with the much shorter trigger pull.

 

[NavyLCDR]

When I was first learning to shoot from my roommate back in college he carried a CZ75 Omega, he carried it hammer down.

One day I was taking a nap and I hear BOOM!!! He was lowering the hammer on his CZ when it slipped off him thumb and did its thing.

Please do not lower the hammer on a live round as your carry method.

So, because your roommate did not know how to properly decock a loaded handgun without a negligent discharge, nobody else should?

1. Point gun in completely safe direction.

2. Place finger of non firing hand between hammer and firing pin, pad of finger towards hammer.

3. Hold hammer back with thumb of firing hand.

4. While holding hammer back, pull trigger fully to rear with normal trigger finger.

5. Lower the hammer so that it slightly contacts the finger between it and the firing pin and hold it there.

6. Release the trigger. This enganges all the internal safeties designed to keep the gun from friring if the hammer accidentally drops.

7. While slowly moving the index finger out of the way, slowly lower the hammer at the same time.

Your roommate did not know to do step #2.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So, because your roommate did not know how to properly decock a loaded handgun without a negligent discharge, nobody else should?

1. Point gun in completely safe direction.

2. Place finger of non firing hand between hammer and firing pin, pad of finger towards hammer.

3. Hold hammer back with thumb of firing hand.

4. While holding hammer back, pull trigger fully to rear with normal trigger finger.

5. Lower the hammer so that it slightly contacts the finger between it and the firing pin and hold it there.

6. Release the trigger. This enganges all the internal safeties designed to keep the gun from friring if the hammer accidentally drops.

7. While slowly moving the index finger out of the way, slowly lower the hammer at the same time.

Your roommate did not know to do step #2.

Or #6 either...

 

[Lucky Derby]

Carry it either way. If you choose DA, then use Navy LCDR's instructions for decocking.

 

[bigfatdave]

Carry however you like.

I agree that lowering a hammer on a love round is not something you should do casually - it requires 100% attention and a safe backstop is a good idea, too.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

In a modern high quality semiaouto like a CZ, carrying cocked and locked is perfectly safe in a proper holster.

If you don't like C&L carry, then keep the hammer down and safety off and you'll be fine too. Again in a proper holster that covers the trigger guard, this is perfectly safe.

Ultimately, your brain and your trigger finger are the only safety you need.

Carrying cocked and locked with no safety is asking for an accident, as you know. Lowering the hammer on a live round is doable, but ill advised as you are also asking for an accident.

 

[mdauben]

So, because your roommate did not know how to properly decock a loaded handgun without a negligent discharge, nobody else should?

IMO there is an inherent risk in manually dropping the hammer on a loaded round. This risk can be minimized though careful attention and proper technique as outlined by NavyLCDR, but all it takes is a moment of distraction for an AD to occure. Personally, if I wanted to carry a gun hammer down on a loaded round, I would get one with a proper decocker. I know CZ offers that option on many if not all their guns. YMMV.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have eased the hammer down on a CZ75 and a Commander many times with never an AD or even a close call. It can be done. Pay attention and be careful, every time.

I have drawn said CZ75 and various 1911oids and snicked off the safety many times, too.
Practice until it becomes a reflex and you can't "forget" because you are not consciously thinking about it.

There is no such thing as "instinctive" shooting, it is all a learned process and you should learn it right.

 

[tyeo098]

So, because your roommate did not know how to properly decock a loaded handgun without a negligent discharge, nobody else should?

He's carried the same gun for about 15 years. He knows it inside and out, he's dropped the hammer properly, every time, save for once.
All of the rules were followed and the round went right into the concrete floor.

If you want to decock, get the decocker model.

Like the old saying: "There are those who have had an ND, and those who haven't. Yet."
Why exacerbate your chances by dropping the hammer on a loaded round?

 

[dadofdevildog]

Thanks to all of you for the advice, it is really helpful

 

[Comrade Mike]

C&L

No use messing around lowering a hammer on a live round. Something else to go wrong.

 

[wally]

One day I was taking a nap and I hear BOOM!!! He was lowering the hammer on his CZ when it slipped off him thumb and did its thing.

Use the search, this has been beat to death. It can't happen if you do it right. You don't lower the hammer with your thumb you use your thumb (or a finger) between the hammer and slide to prevent hammer fall and let the hammer ease into the half cock notch (where the CZ decocker only models leave it) as you remove your thumb up towards the rear sight. There is nothing being gripped that can slip.

The technique will not work on revolvers because of the firing pin on the hammer of S&W or the "stop" at the top of the hammers on transfer bar revolvers.

I and others have described the proper procedure in excruciating detail. Maybe some day I'll make a youTube video, but search, I'd be surprised it there isn't some already there.

 

[SunnySlopes]

With a proper grip its impossible to hold the CZ correctly without deactivating the safety, same as a 1911.

I own several Colt 1911s. Right now I'm holding a Combat Commander w/ambi safety. Safety on or safety off. The grip is the same. You're mistaken re the 1911.

The only CZ I own is a rifle, but I suspect you're mistaken about the CZ handgun as well.

To the OP. Again, if you've been carrying a DA revolver all those years, that's what your brain is programmed for. In a high stress situation, you (the average citizen who does not constantly train re various scenarios) lose the ability to "reason" and "think logically." The average citizen in an instantaneous crisis tends to panic. You'll do exactly that which you've programmed yourself to do. You'll repeat your training.

So let's say you've carried a revolver and that's how you trained. Your brain is conditioned that, should the need arise, you simply draw the weapon and pull the trigger and the bullets fly.

Then you start carrying a 1911 with an external safety, and you carry it cocked and locked. (That's a round in the chamber, the hammer cocked and external safety engaged.) You suddenly find yourself in a critical situation where your life is in danger.

You panic. You draw your weapon and stand there and are trying to pull the trigger, but nothing happens. That's because in a state of panic you've forgotten that, unlike the revolver, you've got to disengage the manual safety.

And anybody who says this can't happen, does not know what they're talking about.

I remember an actual event involving a police officer who, throughout his live fire training, was required to police his brass. They used revolvers, and after they fired a cylinder of shells, were required to pick up the brass before they reloaded.

This officer got involved in a shootout. He emptied his revolver and ejected the cases. The bad guy rushed him around a corner and the police officer was on the ground, picking up his spent cases. The bad guy killed him.

Choose whatever weapon you want. Just make sure that you train with it so much that, your brain knows, no matter the situation, to 1) draw weapon, 2) disengage the manual safety, 3) pull trigger, etc.

Good luck.

 

[peacemaker45]

If you're coming from revolvers, then the DA pull might be more natural. Carry it hammer down, safety off. If you were coming from 1911s, then maybe C&L would be more your thing. Hammer down and safety on is sort of redundant, and fortunately the Czechs recognized this, and didn't make it an option.

 

[Fire_Moose]

I agree with hammer down on a loaded chamber. I carry my 85combat that way because I've never been comfortable with c&l.

I lower the hammer by pinching the ring between index and thumb, give you much more control. Also I make a point of 100% attention everytime I do it. Its easy to get complacent.

I'm also of the mindset that safeties get people killed. That's why my carry gun is a Kahr.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

All these choices give me a real headache! lol

This is why I usually carry a revolver. Simple things for my simple mind!

 

[BlindJustice]

I like my CZ 75B and liked the feature of
Cocked & Locked -OR- DA First shot - my regular
is a 1911 in Condition 1/C&L However with
used the safety is smaller in size as well as stiff to operate.
so I drop the hammer to the 'safety' position as CZ calls it in the manual.
Safety position is aka 'half cock' The way I drop the
hammer is to put my left index finger between the hammer and
the frame/firing pin and release the trigger then ease it forward
with a roll of my index finger.

Dillon I think makes a OWB FBI cant holster for CZs

Randall

 

[WaywardSon]

So, because your roommate did not know how to properly decock a loaded handgun without a negligent discharge, nobody else should?

1. Point gun in completely safe direction.

2. Place finger of non firing hand between hammer and firing pin, pad of finger towards hammer.

3. Hold hammer back with thumb of firing hand.

4. While holding hammer back, pull trigger fully to rear with normal trigger finger.

5. Lower the hammer so that it slightly contacts the finger between it and the firing pin and hold it there.

6. Release the trigger. This enganges all the internal safeties designed to keep the gun from friring if the hammer accidentally drops.

7. While slowly moving the index finger out of the way, slowly lower the hammer at the same time.

Your roommate did not know to do step #2.

Point #6 is critical here IMO....as soon as you have pulled the trigger to release the hammer, get your fat finger off of the trigger before you do anything else. At that point, even if you slip up when removing the finger that is blocking the hammer, the weapon cannot fire.

My CZ 75 Compact is in my EDC rotation & I like it a lot. Carried hammer down on a live round...it works just like the revolvers I occasionally carry. Nothing to do but draw, acquire & fire.

 

[Tirod]

I understand why some would feel that a safety might potentially increase the risk of a mishap when confronted by the extreme need to use it.

On the other hand, the live trigger being ready to fire at every moment might potentially increase the risk of a mishap in daily carry.

How each of us assesses ALL the risks of carrying a firearm is what we finally decide on. I see advantages and disadvantages in either - could the safety not be off when I needed it, sure. Could the gun discharge at the wrong time because their was no safety, sure.

It's operator error in either case. Not the fault of the gun whatsoever. The gun has a design, the operator is entirely responsible to understand it's correct use.

The OP has a really good question in that regard, he's trying to gather facts to understand the function of the gun. Some carry C&L, others don't. Each meets the needs of the operator and his priorities.

Let's not forget, tho, that across the board, either gun could be the only option, and most of us get used to it soon enough in daily carry. It's not a matter of which one is "better," it's a matter of choice only for those who can exercise it. A soldier in the Army pre 1986 would have no choice in carry if he's handed a 1911, a soldier in the Austrian Army would have no choice getting handed a Glock. Better to have one and not need it than need it and not have it, right?

That's why remarks about C&L vs DA are really just monkey dancing - people aren't actually arguing the merits, they are jockeying for who has more social dominance.

Male internet sites are full of it.