Need help; I want to get my 1st & ONLY defensive shotgun...

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Gideon

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
161
You all have a lot of experience with defensive shotguns, I don't! I've used shotguns for birds and rabbits all my life but what I want now it to buy a single shotgun for defensive purposes. I only want one, I need it to be as economical as possible while still having a good gun. I love the idea of the new Remington 20ga but I do worry just a bit about the limited 20ga HD ammo.

I'm a small guy but can handle recoil if I have to. I'm 47 and I'm not getting younger so the recoil thing will be more significant as I get older.

I don't want to modify this alot and plan on staying with a plain stock. I won't be mounting any light because I can't really afford the forearm for a Sure fire and I've never seen a decent "cheap" alternative that would handle the recoil. I've seen cheap options with a pigtail lead to a switch that has a simple mount and an inexpensive LED light. I can't imagine that lasting.

I thought I'd want ghost rings but really I won't be shooting slugs too much and if I'm outside I'd rather use a rifle so I guess this will be close quarters, in the home type duty.

so a simple, inexpensive shotgun with good capacity that doesn't require much modification.

So what have I been thinking about? The 870 20ga home defense, a 12 ga in the same gun. I've also even considered the New England arms 12 ga defender model.

So, after all the time and money you've spent on shotguns, what's the best one shot deal you'd recommend?

Thanks in advance for your time guys!
God Bless
Gideon
 
hello gideon.

lee lapin and dave mccracken will probably be coming along shortly and can answer your question much better than i can. that said, i think the 870 HD is a very good option in either 12 or 20 guage. my 870 HD is a 12 guage with the 2 round extension. i have not had it very long, but have been dedicated to running as many shells through it as i can. it has even been on a few rabbit hunts. and in the process dropped in a creek, had mud on it, etc.. it runs very well, and has held up fine with routine maintenance. by that i mean, it gets wiped down with breakfree clp after each outing, and disassembled and cleaned periodically. i really have enjoyed mine, and the action is starting to slick up a little bit. so the more i shoot it, the more i like it. the price was around $315.00. the 870 is imho never a bad choice for a HD or hunting shotgun.

Don't know much about the new englang shotgun, so i will let others with experience answer that one.
 
A 20ga Rem 870 using #2 or #3 buckshot would be fine for HD.

If you're small statured, you can get the 870 Express Youth model which has a 1" shorter stock. My dad has one (he's 5'6") and loves it. Or you can buy the standard 870 with full length stock and have it cut down by a gunsmith to fit.

Add a Limbsaver recoil pad (slip-on or fitted) if needed to help reduce recoil.

I think you'll be happy with the results.
.
 
The 870 is a fine choice and will serve you well.

You might also wish to consider a Moss 500. I have owned mine for 16 years and have had but one part break. About 8 years ago I sheared an extractor retaining pin during some hard practice,the only time it ever failed me. A $2 part in 16 years is pretty good in my book.
 
i have had 6 shotguns in my lifetime...

1 winchester 1300 defender

2 remington 870 expresses

1 remington 870 marine magnum

1 remington 870 police magnum

1 ttn reproduction 1878 colt hammer double


4 remingtons, i winchester, i ttn hammer coach gun

i've never had any type of problem with the winchester 1300...great gun no malfunctions...sold it to finance the purchase of a remington 870 express...i regret that decision...

out of the four remingtons, 2 had shell latch problems and had to be sent back....one remington express and the 870 police magnum model...the police model had not even been shot, and it had problem straight from the factory...

one express and the marine magnum have been flawless to date...i gave the 870 express to my brother, and kept the marine magnum for myself...

the ttn hammer coach gun has been flawless in function...i use this for my hd gun...it only has two shots, but each barrel works every time...has 20 inch open choke barrels, but since it is a break open gun, the overall length is very short...pointability is great, and its short enough to be very handy indoors...

it might sound crazy to choose an old antiquated gun like a hammer double, but i just don't trust my 870's...
 
Don't rule out other shotgun brands until you have at least shouldered them. A Mossberg or a used Winchester might fit you better or the controls (slide release and safety) might feel more natural.

I personally use a 20 ga Winchester Model 120 Youth for the HD role which is basically a Model 1300 and prefer it to my 870 wingmaster just due to the placement of the controls. I'm also a small guy and the youth model fits me pretty well, it is a little too short but not by much. This way it fits other members of my family perfectly. Also, when I pack on several extra layers hunting in winter the 120 youth actually does fit me correctly.

Also, the NEF Partner pump is a good gun, it is a Chinese knock off of an 870. We don't need to get into the politics here, but some claim it is actually better manufactured than an 870 Express. Other than handling each type in passing and shooting when friends have them around I don't have real experience with either so YMMV.
 
Stick a normal stock on that and we're talking!!!!!
Click to expand...

They're plenty ugly for sure. But I've shot a Mossy 500 with a Knoxx stock and they sure do take the punch out of shooting slugs. The darn things work.
 
I'm gonna be the first to suggest a Saiga 20ga. They are built off the Ak 47 action and are super reliable. The 20ga model is cheaper than the 12 at $299 while the 12 is $400. Go to forum.saiga-12.com for more info. AZhunter
 
Youth Model 870s in 20 gauge are great defensive shotguns. The 20" RS barrel model works well with slugs and buck. The 21" Remchoke barrel adds some versatility.

The 20 gauge 870 with extension looks good, but try before buying. Some folks find the extra weight at the muzzle taxing and awkward.

Note that with a weight little over 6 lbs, recoil is not attenuated compared to the 12 gauge and can be worse.

Of course,whatever you get, use it plenty.
 
The problem I have with the Knoxx products is that plenty of people buy them when what they should be doing is learning to shoot.

Good fit and form beat gadgets, even good ones, all to heck.
 
Gideon,

If you have no physical limitations that dictate otherwise, chances are you'd be better off with a 12 gauge than a 20. I say that simply because the range of ammunition choices is so much greater for the 12, and the 12s usually weigh a bit more than their 20 gauge counterparts. Most any shotgun can be made to fit properly given a bit of time and work.

For instance, my dear wife is 5'4" tall and weighs about 130 pounds, and is now over 60. She easily handles any of the several Remington 870s here that are fitted to her properly. I just added another to the stable of 'house guns' here that are fitted to her, in fact.

It's a 1987 vintage (determined by a quick call to Remington) 870 Express 12 gauge gun, bought used at my favorite FFL dealer's establishment. With its 28" VR RemChoke barrel and birch furniture, it came to just over $200 out the door, in near new condition. I brought it home and gave it a good cleaning (field-strip level, not a 'deep' cleaning). It still had factory preservative inside (brown sticky stuff), which took a little elbow grease and some WD-40 to get out.

I replaced the barrel with an 18 1/8" CYL bore, bead sighted factory barrel from the barrel box, which I had bought used for $70-80 some while back. It's a barrel from a Police gun and is parkerized, so it doesn't quite match the matte blued finish of the rest of the gun. Oh well. Big deal.

A trip to the miter saw removed 1 1/4" of the stock, after the factory pad was taken off and the stock removed from the receiver. The cutoff end of the stock was sealed with Johnson's paste floor wax after the pilot holes for the new pad were drilled, using the enclosed paper template that came with the new recoil pad to locate the holes. Then the Limbsaver small size grind-to-fit pad ($26) was rough fitted using an abrasive wheel on the grinder, with the stock protected by plastic electrical tape during the grinding. I finished fitting the pad off the stock by hand with a coarse file after scribing a line around the pad while it was still firmly screwed to the stock. The finished pad (1" thick) brings the overall length of pull to 12 1/2", which fits my wife perfectly. It also happens to be the stock length I have grown accustomed to shooting, though I am 6'3" tall and wear a 37" sleeve... . While working on the stock I also installed a rear detachable sling swivel stud 3" inboard on the stock from the toe of the new recoil pad.

I put a Streamlight #69906 light rail ($12.95 from OpticsPlanet) under the magazine cap, to attach a rail-mount weaponlight to the gun. Such lights can be had for $50 up at this point, and are getting more widely available and less expensive as time goes on.

It'll get a 4-round SideSaddle installed as soon as I get some more ordered, the ones left in the parts box were all 6 round models. There's a replacement magazine cap with a sling swivel stud on the way from a recent eBay auction, and that will go on when it gets here. No magazine extension for this one, it puts too much weight out in front of the support hand and my wife doesn't like 'em.

For us this is a perfectly servicable defensive shotgun at pretty much a budget price. It might not work for you, but something similar might do just as well. This one will spend a good deal of time on the range to establish its functional reliability and its preference for loads before it gets put to work for real, but it shows a lot of promise for its assigned role. And there's nothing about the gun to keep it from having its original barrel reinstalled with a magazine plug if needed, and being taken afield for wingshooting, clay games or small game hunting.

hth,

lpl/nc
 
Something to consider in a "bet your life shotgun"

The design of the shell latches(specifically the right side). It is made
to prevent a double feed during the feed cycle. The problem is, if you
are using your 870 to do rapid fire of fairly heavy loads, the shell does
occasionally pop ahead of the right shell latch resulting in a click instead
of a bang. This is called "shell surge" and is supposedly cured by a heavy
magazine spring. Every 870 I have had(and my Norinco 982) has done this.
The heavy spring does not always work to prevent this from happening, however(it makes the shells harder to push in the magazine while pushing on the carrier, that's another issue with the 870). So in a rapid fire defensive situation, you might have to pump the gun again to get a round in the chamber, resulting in the loss of a split second which can get you killed in a gunfight.

The Mossberg shell latch that prevents double feeding actually rotates
into place so that a shell cannot be thrown forward during recoil. So this
"shell surge" cannot happen with the Mossberg unless the latch is
malfunctioning. Look at your 870 and see how quick the right shell latch
moves into place(the bolt is only back from battery by about 1in.) to block the next shell from feeding. The shotgun is still in recoil with heavy loads and combined with the slide coming back quickly, you can see how easy this can happen.

I know the proponents of the 870 are going to tell me that I'm not
pumping the gun correctly or I'm firing it to fast. Well, I'm a former
officer who has had extensive training with the 870, and the Mossberg
and 1300(personally owned). I have never had these issues with the other two. EVERY 870 I have fired has done this occasionally with slugs and
buckshot. Don't get me wrong, I like the 870 for it's feel, steel receiver
and longevity, but if someone is gunning for me and my family I'd
rather have the Mossberg. I'll keep the 870 for a hunting gun(which
it was designed for).
 
Wow, I'm always amazed by the amount of experience and the diversity of opinions on these forums! First, I appreciate every bit of it!! thanks for taking the time.

At this point I plan on keeping this real simple, a basic 20 or 12 ga that fits; probably either a Mossberg or Remington. I'm going to go with a pump for simplicity, cost, reliability. The AK variant of a shotgun was rather impressive and certainly interesting but not quite what I'm looking for.

I'm going to go do some "shouldering" tests of the above models. I've seen some Mossbergs that were very very inexpensive. I believe they aren't parkarized, only blued. I don't think this would be a problem for my situation.

As far a lights go, that seems to be the only add on many folks seem to agree on. I don't want to go the dedicated foreend route due to cost and again simplicity so I know I can buy a clamp mount that hooks on to the mag tupe but if I do that, do you have to just turn the light on with your hand and leave it on? If so, what is a foolproof model of light to mount this way that won't be affected by the recoil?

I know some folks make those pigtail switch cables and the switch is mounted on the forearm but having something dangling as you pump a shotgun seems, well, not in good forum to my inexperienced eye.

Anyway, thanks again for all of the input!
God Bless
Gideon
 
I know I can buy a clamp mount that hooks on to the mag tupe
Click to expand...


Don't bother, If you intend to shoot it will vibrate off sooner or later. Don't ask me how I know. :eek:
 
870yn8.jpg


combo sets available at most -Mart and -Sport chains stores under $450
 
Well, you know what they say about opinions, but I'll give you mine.

First, "home defense" and "20 gauge" seem like kind of an oxymoron to me. Unless you're really small and really recoil sensitive, you really want to be looking at a 12 gauge. The only defense load you really want to think about is "tactical" or "low-recoil" (depending on the brand) 00 buckshot. As you might guess from the "low recoil" part, they're fairly tame. You don't have to put much energy behind a full charge of 00 buck to put a guy down, and the low recoil allows faster follow-up shots.

If you want a once-and-done solution, the Remington 870 is the best way to go. Having owned and worked on 870s and having worked on Mossbergs (I'd never own one), I'd never stake my life on a Mossberg. They're just too roughly made, and have too many ways to break. It's purely a sporting gun, and a budget-class one at that. The Winchester 1300 is a good gun, but if I owned one I'd definitely want to make a couple of changes to it--in particular, a few forend. The Defender forend has ridges on it that are a little too sharp for comfort.

I've owned three 870s over the years, and never once had one malfunction or break. Bear in mind that I use them in rapid fire, and under some fairly adverse conditions. Bad ammo is the only thing I've ever seen come close to making one jam. Next time you walk past a police cruiser in a parking lot, check out the riot gun. It'll be an 870. There's a reason for that.

The home-defense version of the 870 Express, with the 18" barrel and six-shot magazine, is about as good a defensive shotgun as you can get out of the box. About the only upgrade you'd definitely want to get is the pre-fitted R3 recoil pad that runs about $25--it soaks up a lot more recoil than the stock pad, installs with just a screwdriver, and is well worth the money.

If you want to add a Sidesaddle spare ammo carrier to the receiver, you'll need to replace the forend with a shorter one; the factory forend is very comfortable, but can't move all the way back if there's a Sidesaddle on the receiver. Unfortunately, making this change requires a special wrench that costs more than the forend.

If the stock is too long for you (which is unlikely--the stock one's fairly short), there's a "youth" stock you can buy for it. I don't know if there's an R3 pad for that one, though.
 
870 all the way -

Mossbergs are for the minor leagues - I've owned Mossberg 590A1 special purpose, I have had a Mossberg 930SPX nice shotguns but something missing. How can I say this - The fit and finish is off - like their not finished, hurried through the manufacturing process or put together by people who don't give a FK...!

I still have a Mossberg 500 persuader in 20 gauge sits in the corner, all loosey/goosey like it's ready to fall apart or something.

I also, have a Remmy 870 81400 Tactical 2, with the Knoxx spec-ops stock, now that is one well made, solid, tight, tool ready for action at a moments notice. Trust my life to the Remington wouldn't take the Mossberg to a rock fight-sorry...
 
Thanks for all the input guys! I'm leaning toward an 870 12 ga, 18". I probably won't add the side saddle unless you guys thinks it's that important. I will add a sling and as far as a light goes; well I just don't know. I really don't like how the surefire front end looks and I don't like the cost. I thought if I could clamp on a less expensive surefire with a shock resistant lamp I might be set. I can't imagine working a pump with a light in my hand :uhoh:

Well, I think the basic gun is a good start. I've had a few friends suggest that Ghost Rings are worth it in the long run. They say they don't mess you up for buck but enable you for slugs should you ever want them. they seem to think it's better to get them on from the factory rather then mess with them later...your thoughts?

Thanks Guys!
God Bless
 
Gideon- Your original question also stated that this would be strictly for in house use. Something to consider.....Simple is best. If you can't defend yourself in a house with a plain jane shotgun ( ie....18'barrel and bead sight), then maybe we have bigger issues to get around!
If you are more comfortable with a 20ga (remember the frame and overall size will be smaller-maybe more comfortable for you?)-then get the 20ga. Inside a house/apt. you will not be at a disadvantage due to lack of firepower. Don't over think this-get something simple and cost effective, practice with it, clean it and load it and be happy! Make sure to pattern whatever you get at "house ranges" with whatever load you settle on. JMO..hope this helps!
 
Gideon,

In the long run, the hardware you own matters less than the software running in that fire control computer between your ears. In other words, what shotgun you have is less important than how good you are at using it under pressure.

If you aleady have a currently manufactured repeater that accepts interchangeable barrels, that you've been using for hunting, that you know to be reliable and that you can operate in your sleep, then essentially all you need is a short smoothbore barrel for it. A short barrel is handy in close quarters not because you'll be searching the house with it, but because it's easier to manage from a barricaded defensive position.

There's a difference in shooting a shotgun for sport and fighting with one. It's important to learn that difference and to groove the habits involved in using a shotgun as a weapon thoroughly. There are numerous books and videos aimed at teaching these things, but none will be as efficient as taking a class from a qualified instructor.

Good luck and Stay Safe,

lpl/nc
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

TTv2
  • Locked
  • Poll
What's your choice for low recoil defense? .410, 20, or 12 gauge minishells?
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
herrwalther
H
danez71
  • Locked
If I reloaded 12 ga, what other gages do I need?
Replies
21
Views
2K
rsrocket1
rsrocket1
D
  • Locked
Recoil: 12 or 20ga?
Replies
8
Views
1K
hqmhqm
H
BlackJack
  • Locked
Need info on interesting Beretta single
Replies
4
Views
3K
BlackJack
BlackJack
R
  • Locked
Shotgun or AR for Home Defense
2 3 4 5
Replies
117
Views
5K
Robert
Robert
Back
Top