Need Help Sighting In with Iron Sights

[KingRed1]

I own several AKM style rifles in 7.62 and an AR in 5.56, all equipped with iron sights only (front and rear Troy fixed iron sights on the AR). I have been wanting to get them all "zeroed in" but my research has pulled me in many different directions.

First of all, my philosophy with these rifles is that of self defense. Not long range target shooting or hunting. My idea is that I would like be able to hit a watermelon size target at 100 yards with iron sights only. I figure if it ever comes to having to use the 2nd amendment as it was originally purposed or to simply defend property from criminals or animals, I would like to be able to go out to 50 or 100 yards accurately. I quite honestly have no interest in optics, nor do I have any reason to believe that I would ever need to shoot at ranges greater than 100 yards with open sights and no magnification.

I have researched trajectory charts, YouTube instructional videos, gun forums, factory manuals etc. Everybody seems to have a different opinion and different philosophies and it's driving me nuts.

My question is this...instead of using trajectory charts and worrying about where my bullet may fall at 200 yards, can I just use a simpler method?

Can't I just zero in the rifles for point of impact at point of aim on a target at 25 or 50 yards? Won't my trajectory of both caliber be near enough to defend myself and family from large objects within 0 to 100 yards?

I know the process for "correctly" zeroing in the AKs. I am new to the AR (S&W MP15 Tactical), and a little bit iffy on the proper rear sight elevation setting to begin zeroing the rifle (8/3?) Everybody has differing opinions on zeroing at 25 yards vs 50 yards and his that affects trajectory at very long distances.

So, in my case, can I bring the sights of both rifles to neutral positions and simply zero them in at 25 yards and be happy with that?

Am I being extremely naive? Should I follow the recommended, technical military style zeroing process or does my method sound ok?

Also what rear sight elevation setting should I use for neutral on the AR?

Hopefully this isn't too confusing. Any help is appreciated since I would like to zero the rifles soon. Thanks!

 

[gunnutery]

http://www.weapon-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/m4_zero-230x300.png

Check the above link for the 25 meter zero target, perhaps you've seen it in your research. If you want to use that one, just make sure you get a printable one. That's what I've used before. If you want to zero it at 100 yards you could probably just make your own with 1" grid lines instead.

The military zero instructions should be fine as well. I've done them to those directions too. I don't quite get the different fraction heights, but the directions got me zeroed and good to go anyway.

EDIT: http://www.weapon-blog.com/2010/03/ this link has the printable version on pdf.

 

[aka108]

I don't like complicated anythings. I shoot both 7.62x39 and 223 thru AK type rifles. When they were brand new I zeroed them at 15 yards then moved out to 50 yards and a couple of minor adjustments they were zeroed at that distance. I left them at that range. Now if I set up some clays at 100 yards they are easy to break. The 50 yard zero will take care of a person sized target aiming for a center mass hit at 200 yards.

 

[holdencm9]

My question is this...instead of using trajectory charts and worrying about where my bullet may fall at 200 yards, can I just use a simpler method?

Of course!

The reason you see so many different opinions is because everyone has different uses for their weapons, and that affects the zeroing method. Also people use different bullets which affects ballistic coefficient and those near/far zero distances.

Sounds like you want to keep it simple, which is good. I'd say the 50 yard zero is probably good for both. For your typical 7.62x39 round (123gr) and .223 round (55gr) if you are zeroed at 50, you will only be an inch or so high at 100, with both. Then the 7.62x39 round will start to drop pretty rapidly, and the .223 round will remain relatively "flat" for another 150 yards or so, but again, you don't care.

I think the 25 yard zero might be a little close if you never will shoot beyond 100 yards. This is because if you zero at 25, you'll be 6 or 7 inches HIGH at 100. If you compensate you should be fine.

The attached screenshots just came out of hornady's ballistic calculator, you can input your ammo of choice and see how the two rounds compare. But with 50 yard zero, you'll have easy point of aim hits out to 100 yards, with both guns, no fuss.

 

[KingRed1]

Great info. Thanks everyone!

 

[jrdolall]

Enjoy it while you can. 10 years ago I scoffed at optics on lever guns, AR's or AK's. Who needs a scope on a gun that is going to be shot at less than 200 yards?

I DO! My eyes went from 20-20 to OLD pretty quick and now there is no way I could use irons. I can focus on the rear sight or the target but not both and I have no idea where the front sight is.

With the guns you are using I can agree that a 50 yard zero is adequate. If you are "on" at 50 then you will probably be darned close to bullseye at 100. I've destoyed a lot of cans and bottles at 100 yards using iron sights and I wish I still could do it.

 

[henschman]

Forget about what other people are doing with their zeroes... you should set your rifle up for your needs and intended use. You want a zero that will allow you to hit the size target you are concerned with at the ranges you are concerned with while minimizing having to "hold off" or make sight adjustments to get hits. If you know you absolutely aren't going to be shooting past 100 yards, and you just need to be a able to hit watermelon-sized targets at that distance and closer, either a 50 or a 100 yard zero would work well for you. With a 50 yard zero, anything closer than 50 you would hit progressively lower, with the maximum deviation being at point blank, where you are low by the height of your sights over the bore (about 3"). past 50 you would be progressively higher, with the max deviation being at 100 yards, where you would be about 3" high. With a 100 yard zero, you would of course be right on at 100, and progressively lower at all closer distances, again right down to your sight-over-bore height at contact distance. Either way you wouldn't have to hold off at all to get hits on your intended size target under 100 yards.

Yes, a 25 yard zero would make you hit 7" high or so at 100 yards... which would be enough to possibly cause a miss on your watermelon if you didn't hold a hair low.

 

[W.E.G.]

Iron-sight AK's get zeroed for 25 yards.

That will put you as close as you need to be for any shot you can reasonably expect to take with an iron-sight AK.

 

[Dave Bulla]

My method is always to simply pick one distance wherei want the bullet to hit dead on, sight the gun in at that distance and THEN shoot it at other distances you are interested in and simply make a mental note of where the bullets strike at those distances.

For example, say you want your rifle to be dead on at 100 yards. Sight it in that way then without changing the sights, shoot it at 25, 50 and 75 yards. Depending on the hight of your sights above the bore you may find that it hits a little low at 25, close to dead on at 50, a little high at 75.

All the talk about sighting in say 2" high at 100 to be dead on at whatever distance is based on this simple method but the guys talking about it approach it backwards because they start with the so many inches high or low bit. It's all because other people in the past have done the leg work already and figured it out. Is easier and simpler to just do it yourself though because variables like distance between line of sight and the line of the bore varies. Bullet shapes vary. Velocity varies. Etc etc.

On a typical hunting rifle with a scope mounted low, the line of sight is about an inch above the bore. Sighting in dead on at 25 yards will put most guns very close to dead on at 100. Military guns with sights much higher above the bore sighed on at 100 will hit low at 25. How much depends on how big the gap between line of sight and line of bore is.

 

[KingRed1]

OK I've been doing a ton of reading on this. Here's my plan to zero in the rifles:

AK in 7.62:
Rear sight setting to 1(100m) and zero in at 50m then fine tune at 100m. Then leave the rear sight at the 1 setting forever. This will give me a flat trajectory to hit a melon size target from point blank range up to about 120m. Thus is perfect for self defense and it doesn't matter that the trajectory starts falling off at longer distance because I won't be engaging targets at 200 or 300m.

AR in 5.56:
I figured out today that my Troy rear iron sight doesn't even have an elevation adjustment, just windage. So this rifle I will start at mechanical zero and zero in at 50m adjusting windage on rear sight and elevation on front sight as needed.

Does this sound like a plan to accomplish my goals of 100m capable iron sight only self defense?