Noob questions regarding Mosin Nagant

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Lightsped

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I realize there are multiple websites for the Mosin Nagant rifles, but I only hve time to visit this website so I will ask here.

What should I know before buying one of these?

Are there different versions? Seems like most I have seen are 26" barrels. Are there any shorter versions? I have seen some called "M38" on gunbroker that appear to have shorter barrel.

What is counter boring? Why is it important?

Anything else I noob to this rifle should know before going out and looking at them with the possiblity of purchase?

Thanks
 
M38 is the carbine version and does have a shorter barrel. It makes even more noise and flames but is a little easier to handle.

IMO, counterboring was done by Russian arsenals to compensate for muzzles widened by innattentive cleaning rod use and has now become a desirable feature to have a bore so badly treated that it needed counterboring.

The rifles can be improved greatly by some simple homeshop gunsmithing to the triggers, and by glass bedding the receiver.

If you buy one try real hard to find one with a bright shiny bore. They're out there because I've got one. Probably the original barrel ws so bad that they replaced it, or my rifle is brand new and had never been fired.

Pay a little more for a good one - they're good shooting things when they're good, but they're miserable pieces of junk when they're sold for $100.
 
I bought my 91/30 for $79 and it was rock solid, and very accurate. I'm guessing it was probably never fired, because it was relatively clean, covered in grease, and the bore looked like sunshine. I don't think you really need to spend more than $100, you just need to inspect the bore, overall condition of the rifle. With so many out there its more of a gamble, a 50/50 of getting a great one.

The best advice though? Just buy one, their cheap, fun, and well... thats all you need!
 
find one you like and pick it up everyone is a little diffrent so have fun


oh forgot to mention to check the bore pull the bolt back and pull the trigger to remove the bolt. other than that look around and check out the various configurations most of them will be m91-30s personally i don't like them sportorized but that's up to you. You can even get them now with fancy plastic opps i mean synthetic stocks. A lot of them seem to have been cut up in more ways than one so if you looking for full military you might want to measure the barrel. I own two atm both up for sell if someone wants them, there great cheap rifles that are a lot of fun.
 
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btw anyone ever get their bayonet stuck on the darn thing...I can't get mine off to save my life....starting to wonder if its on there for good...:cuss:

I have 2 but the one with the bayonet is the better rifle....:uhoh:
 
If you want one with potential, I have a Finn 28/30 in need of some TLC that one of my high school buddies dropped off like a wayward puppy.
 
Well, There's a couple things You should know before buying:

There are a few different models. The 91/30 is the one most people think of because there are just so many of them. Its that really big one. Simple. Next chronologically would be the M38. This is basically just a short 91/30 that was produced from the factory in this configuration (this is important) You will notice that the sight adjustment "only" goes up to a few hundred meters; less than the 91/30. Next is the M44. This is identical in size to the M38, except it also has a big, heavy folding bayonet on the front. Other than the extra slot in the stock to accommodate the folding bayonet, its pretty close to its brother, the M38. That brings us to the most desirable one, the Mosin Nagant 91/59. In 1959, the ussr had all of the refurbished 91/30's just laying around, but they were quite unwieldy for the modern army, so many simply had the barrels cut down and were put into a shorter stock. Externally, it looks quite similar to the M38, the way to tell them apart is by looking at the rear sight. the 91/59 maintains the original 91/30 long range sight, the M38 does not. There is another important difference that I will explain later when we get to that.

You should also look at the receiver when purchasing your MN. Although condition of the barrel should be the most important factor (seriously, spend time looking for one with a shiny new barrel, they exist, i have one!) the age and condition of the receiver should be taken into account as well. Earlier MN's had octagonal receivers (often erroneously refered to as "hex" receivers). In the late 30's, the two biggest (and only) manufacturers at the time, Izhevsk (marked by an arrow in a triangle) and Tula (marked by an arrow in a star) switched over to a round type receiver. There is no difference strength or function-wise, but it made production easier and cheaper. In my opinion, the hex receivers just look better.

You will also notice, that during war time, both the quality of the machining on Izhevsk's and the number of Tula's drops off considerably. Although the the WWII Izzy's can be nice shooters, it all depends on the particular gun. Also, Tula's of any vintage are generally thought to have a better fit and finish overall. If I were you and I were purchasing a 91/30, I would look for a 30's vintage gun preferably made by Tula, with a new barrel. I have a '35 tula with a decent bore, and a '37 izhevsk with a perfect bore, and I much prefer them to the poorly made war-time guns.

Now we get to counterboring. Counterboring is where the first couple inches inside the muzzle have been cut to be stripped of rifling. Essentially, it's cutting down the barrel without losing any barrel length. This is where we are going to bring back up the differences between the M38/M44 and the 91/59. Often times, when those soviet peasants were truging across the frozen landscape on the road to Berlin, they must have forgotten to clean their rifles, which were fired with quite dirty corrosive ammo. This wreaked havoc on the bores. Often, the muzzle end of the rifle would be in bad condition either because the soldieer cleaned his rifle from the muzzle end and banged it up, or because he cleaned from the breach end and didnt clean the whole thing because the cleaning rod isn't long enough! The USSR either left barrels on there if they were ok, replaced them if they were really bad, or counterbored them if they were "kinda" bad. For most shooters/collectors, counterboring is not prefered as it means that the barrel has already been shot and abused quite a bit. However, there is no problem with these guns, and some can still be pretty accurate.

A quick check for this at a gun show, since you probably are not experienced with MN's enough to eye it up is to take a 7.62x54r cartridge and slide the bullet end down the muzzle. It if slide all the way in easily, its counterbored, if the bullet doesnt go all the way in, its not

The M38 and M44 are quite short for the 7.62x54r cartridge, and thus, not all of the power was expended when the bullet left the barrel. This led to more corrosive powder in the barrel and a larger flash (The M38/M44 Fireball, haha) and thus made the bore very dirty very quickly. Therefore, many of the carbines have pretty bad bores, and the vast majority of them are counterbored.

The 91/59, on the other hand, started life as a 91/30. The barrels on them may have even been replaced the first time they were refurbished as 91/30's and their barrels are cut down, meaning that often since they were generally never shot, they have amazing bores with no muzzle erosion.

Fortunately/Unfortunately, MN's have been gaining popularity, and some models are getting difficult to find (like the 91/59's which are definitely not common any more) A List in descending order of availability is:

91/30
M44
M38
91/59

Trust me, they're all fun and you will be happy with whatever you choose. Recoil can be quite punishing for some people (especially on the carbines) but dont let that dissuade you. Just remember when you go out looking: Check for counterboring, look for a good barrel, look for an older receiver (my preference just because of the history and newer ones' QC), difference in manufacturer (Tula often considered better than izhevsk), and most Importantly, the type. The more common ones will be cheaper, so if you see a 91/59 for the price of a M44 (usually abt 150-170ish) it would be wise to snag it while you can.

All of these tips will tell the seller that you know your stuff and put you in a better position to haggle as well! :D Haha, wow, I didnt realize how long this had gotten but happy shooting!

ps - Dont forget to bring a small notepad with things to remember written down on it! It can be an invaluable tool as sellers start lying to you about their merchandise! and a website to go to for additional info can be found at 7.62x54r.net and there are many other forums online that specialize in MN's
 
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The Highlander:
That is an excellent description.

Have you contributed to any MN forum topics at "Gunandgame"?
Those guys are enthusiastic about all MNs, having both an upbeat style and a really good sense of humour, plus good manners, so lacking at times on the Internet.
 
I have as a matter of fact! Just wasn't sure about the etiquette of this particular forum regarding directing one to an additional forum being that I'm somewhat new here, haha

And thank you!
 
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