Jammer Six
member
Excuse me.
I left some things in my car.
Can we have a short break, please?
Before the group hug or the singing?
I left some things in my car.
Can we have a short break, please?
Before the group hug or the singing?
Norinco Barrel
- Thread starter Dave Sample
- Start date
- Status
JeffC
Member
That depends on what you left in your car Jammer....earplugs or a Quad Vente Mocha? 
Jammer Six
member
Uhm...
Just let me walk out to my car, and I'll show you.
And I need to take my coat, because...
...well, because...
...because I need to put it in my car.
Just let me walk out to my car, and I'll show you.
And I need to take my coat, because...
...well, because...
...because I need to put it in my car.
Wichaka
Member
Gotta stand in a circle and hold hands first..........
JeffC
Member
Deal's off!
I ain't holdin' hands......
Come to think of it, I left somethin' in my car too.....
I ain't holdin' hands......
Come to think of it, I left somethin' in my car too.....
JeffC
Member
So any updates on that barrel?
Wichaka
Member
Guess that warm-fuzzy feeling has its limitations eh?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Feeeeeeelings!
Wichaka...
Warm and fuzzy...Gooooood!
Wet and sloppy...NOT goooood...
It's the flu season fer cryin' out loud!
Wichaka...
Warm and fuzzy...Gooooood!
Wet and sloppy...NOT goooood...
It's the flu season fer cryin' out loud!
Dave Sample
member
How could you not like a man like Old Fuff who tells it like it is. And also, the Tuner has a good heart. I imagine that it seem so some folks that we are at each others throats sometimes, but that is never really true. "We is just callin' like we see it." The basic problem is that I dissolved this old brain with alcohol many moons ago and I do not have the precison that I used to have. Also, I build 1911's in very peculiar ways and can't expect you all to understand what I do. Tuner probably remembers when I would grab my ax and blow with Randy Roadapple and the Cowpatty's and get the Tenor Guitar rippin' those clubs to pieces! Then when I got 'em where I wanted them, I would grab the Plectrum Banjo (Bacon and Day) and finish them off for the night. Wheeeeee................
I like you alll and would never flame you, but I am a difficult man because I come form another time and place where you didn't learn "Forum Speak" when you are a teenager. I am not devious and I say what is on my mind and sometimes the explanations of what I am trying to say are not clear. I am NOT PC, either. Bill(space) Z would be worthless to me if he were not the kind of man he is. He built a better 1911 that I can build at that point and that is rough on your ego, but true. He did it with some help from me, but we are not yes men. Yes men are worthless in my opinion because you do not learn anything from them. We learn from friction, not PC agreement. When I have an idea I want to bounce off him or Dean, I want an honest opinion, not some garbage that will make me happy. We discuss ways to improve our Online 1911 Class almost daily and strive to make it better and better for our Brave Men who jump in with both feet and pay out a lot of money to learn something and" Build a Gun and Have Some Fun". They make at least a $2000.00 investment and we try very hard to give them their money's worth. I have always loved doing things the "Experts " said couldn't be done. I have all of their negative comments in this hard drive and on a CD and when I need a few laughs, I read them again. All they said to me was that "They" couldn't do it. I went through that many years ago with the first class at the College and we did it that time twice. So Professor Harold Hill has booked in 10 more students and they are going to get conned into building the nicest 1911 PATRIOT that the world has ever seen.
The Norinco barrerl will do fine with a little teaking in the slide or Bill(space)Z will send Dominic another barrel Pro Bono. We are not quitters.
I like you alll and would never flame you, but I am a difficult man because I come form another time and place where you didn't learn "Forum Speak" when you are a teenager. I am not devious and I say what is on my mind and sometimes the explanations of what I am trying to say are not clear. I am NOT PC, either. Bill(space) Z would be worthless to me if he were not the kind of man he is. He built a better 1911 that I can build at that point and that is rough on your ego, but true. He did it with some help from me, but we are not yes men. Yes men are worthless in my opinion because you do not learn anything from them. We learn from friction, not PC agreement. When I have an idea I want to bounce off him or Dean, I want an honest opinion, not some garbage that will make me happy. We discuss ways to improve our Online 1911 Class almost daily and strive to make it better and better for our Brave Men who jump in with both feet and pay out a lot of money to learn something and" Build a Gun and Have Some Fun". They make at least a $2000.00 investment and we try very hard to give them their money's worth. I have always loved doing things the "Experts " said couldn't be done. I have all of their negative comments in this hard drive and on a CD and when I need a few laughs, I read them again. All they said to me was that "They" couldn't do it. I went through that many years ago with the first class at the College and we did it that time twice. So Professor Harold Hill has booked in 10 more students and they are going to get conned into building the nicest 1911 PATRIOT that the world has ever seen.
The Norinco barrerl will do fine with a little teaking in the slide or Bill(space)Z will send Dominic another barrel Pro Bono. We are not quitters.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
PC
Ahhhh Cap'n! Sometimes I could kiss yer lumpy head, and sometimes I could bounce a brick off'n the side of it. Maybe one day we'll have us a sit-down and argue some of the finer points of smiffin.' Who knows...We might both learn a little somethin.' (An altogether frightening thought...)
Fuff explained the mislick on the Kart barrel...Like me, he never gave it a thought after seein' the "EZ-Fit" description and assumed that it was a near drop-in. I've never used one, and always relied on the hard-fit barrels on the few occasions that I did a match-grade build...or even welded up the key areas on a good ordnance barrel and refitted everything. The hard-fit barrels
are much better in the accuracy department because the semi-finished chambers, oversized hoods, and close-tolerance lugs allow for close, close specs in the headspace and horizontal lockup.
Some newer things really are better for some applications...but some of'em ain't worth doodly-squat. Anyway...That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
I do wanna give one of those new-fangled EZ-Fit barrels a whirl sometime...
Might turn out to be the best thing since John Browning was born.
Ahhhh Cap'n! Sometimes I could kiss yer lumpy head, and sometimes I could bounce a brick off'n the side of it. Maybe one day we'll have us a sit-down and argue some of the finer points of smiffin.' Who knows...We might both learn a little somethin.' (An altogether frightening thought...)
Fuff explained the mislick on the Kart barrel...Like me, he never gave it a thought after seein' the "EZ-Fit" description and assumed that it was a near drop-in. I've never used one, and always relied on the hard-fit barrels on the few occasions that I did a match-grade build...or even welded up the key areas on a good ordnance barrel and refitted everything. The hard-fit barrels
are much better in the accuracy department because the semi-finished chambers, oversized hoods, and close-tolerance lugs allow for close, close specs in the headspace and horizontal lockup.
Some newer things really are better for some applications...but some of'em ain't worth doodly-squat. Anyway...That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
I do wanna give one of those new-fangled EZ-Fit barrels a whirl sometime...
Might turn out to be the best thing since John Browning was born.
Dave Sample
member
I am at your service Tuner, if you need some help with that EZ fit Kart Barrel. Do not hesitate to ask me. We have installed a lot of them Online.
Hey guys. I apologize for not posting and update sooner. I must say that I probably bit off far more than I can chew by starting up this little project with Christmas so close on the horizon. My business has kept me very busy and I ain't complaining about that.
First, thanks again to Dave S. and to Bill Z. for his kind offer. When the barrel arrived I had about thirty minutes to sit down with my Kuhnhausen shop manual and read-and-tinker.
I love this manual! The illustrations are great and it's a very helpful to have it handy when going over some of the posts on THR. However, like I said, I've been very pressed for time. However, here are some things that I noticed immediately:
1. The norinco barrel still binds on the slide stop pin when I do the test than Tuner has described in numerous posts here on THR - the same test that Wil Schuemann describes on his site: when I remove the slide and assemble only the barrel and slide stop pin in the frame, leaving the slide stop pin dangling and put the barrel in the bed, the slide stop doesn't move freely but is in fact quite restricted.
BTW, the slide stop pin in question measures .2" in diameter.
2. When the barrel is in the bed, lower lug touching the bridge, the norinco barrel's frame ramp almost overhangs the frame ramp.
3. I still don't get the .02" clearance when the barrel and slide (no pin) are assembled and the slide is moved .25" to the rear from battery.
So, in a minor fit of angst, I decided to pay the new (to me) local 1911 pistolsmith a visit. Actually I really just wanted to get out of the house and have a face-to-face conversation with a grown adult that was not a business partner or a family member. His analysis was that even after the modifications the gun is still out of time and that that the lug grooves in the slide are slightly off, the norinco barrel's bottom lugs were just slightly too far forward and the frame's bridge was slightly rearward. He took the gun home to meditate upon it further and here is what he came up with twenty four hours later: he can fit a used barrel from his parts bin and recut the slide's lug grooves.
I picked it up from him this afternoon. The donor barrel was from a Sistema Colt and it looked basically unfired. He charged $50 for barrel and $50 to fit it. Another $100 in the money pit. The gun appeared to lock up much tighter and the play in the slide to frame fit was slightly reduced. I took the gun and 150rds of FMJ to range and gave it a little trial run. No malfunctions and the gun was every bit as accurate as I was. Ok, so I went home and took the gun appart and here's what I noticed after comparing the new sistema barrel with the "old" norinco barrel:
1. the sistema barrel passed the test in item #1 above with flying colors.
2. out of battery .25", the sistema barrel does have more clearance, but I am not sure if it has .02". Still looking for typing paper and/or feeler gauges.
3. the sistem barrel's ramp doesn't overhang the frame ramp and appears to be about perfect, per Kuhnhausen pp 65.
However, there seems to be some scraping on the hood and the middle lug of the barrel seems suspiciously shiny on the it's forward (muzzle end) edge. The other lug edges seem fine.
Note that the smith did NOT relieve the frame bridge. He said that he didn't think that it was necessary with the sistema barrel. What do you think? Put another 100rds or so through it and if there is more wear send it back to him?
Some other things that I have noticed about the Sistema barrel: It's link will not travel completely to the rear. It gets stuck between the feet. It will go back far enough for the pin to mount under the lugs obviously but not much farther. I don't know that this matters as the link obviously won't be traveling there if the pin is in place, but I just thought I'd mention it.
I've gone and done it.
I've polluted the thread. Dave and Bill Z. didn't want to give up but it looks like I did. Sorry guys. I made the decision to jump on another barrel when I compared the fit of norinco barrel in my slide with the fit of the slide and barrels of some other guns in the shop, some of which had been heavily used.
First, thanks again to Dave S. and to Bill Z. for his kind offer. When the barrel arrived I had about thirty minutes to sit down with my Kuhnhausen shop manual and read-and-tinker.
I love this manual! The illustrations are great and it's a very helpful to have it handy when going over some of the posts on THR. However, like I said, I've been very pressed for time. However, here are some things that I noticed immediately:
1. The norinco barrel still binds on the slide stop pin when I do the test than Tuner has described in numerous posts here on THR - the same test that Wil Schuemann describes on his site: when I remove the slide and assemble only the barrel and slide stop pin in the frame, leaving the slide stop pin dangling and put the barrel in the bed, the slide stop doesn't move freely but is in fact quite restricted.
BTW, the slide stop pin in question measures .2" in diameter.
2. When the barrel is in the bed, lower lug touching the bridge, the norinco barrel's frame ramp almost overhangs the frame ramp.
3. I still don't get the .02" clearance when the barrel and slide (no pin) are assembled and the slide is moved .25" to the rear from battery.
So, in a minor fit of angst, I decided to pay the new (to me) local 1911 pistolsmith a visit. Actually I really just wanted to get out of the house and have a face-to-face conversation with a grown adult that was not a business partner or a family member. His analysis was that even after the modifications the gun is still out of time and that that the lug grooves in the slide are slightly off, the norinco barrel's bottom lugs were just slightly too far forward and the frame's bridge was slightly rearward. He took the gun home to meditate upon it further and here is what he came up with twenty four hours later: he can fit a used barrel from his parts bin and recut the slide's lug grooves.
I picked it up from him this afternoon. The donor barrel was from a Sistema Colt and it looked basically unfired. He charged $50 for barrel and $50 to fit it. Another $100 in the money pit. The gun appeared to lock up much tighter and the play in the slide to frame fit was slightly reduced. I took the gun and 150rds of FMJ to range and gave it a little trial run. No malfunctions and the gun was every bit as accurate as I was. Ok, so I went home and took the gun appart and here's what I noticed after comparing the new sistema barrel with the "old" norinco barrel:
1. the sistema barrel passed the test in item #1 above with flying colors.
2. out of battery .25", the sistema barrel does have more clearance, but I am not sure if it has .02". Still looking for typing paper and/or feeler gauges.
3. the sistem barrel's ramp doesn't overhang the frame ramp and appears to be about perfect, per Kuhnhausen pp 65.
However, there seems to be some scraping on the hood and the middle lug of the barrel seems suspiciously shiny on the it's forward (muzzle end) edge. The other lug edges seem fine.
Note that the smith did NOT relieve the frame bridge. He said that he didn't think that it was necessary with the sistema barrel. What do you think? Put another 100rds or so through it and if there is more wear send it back to him?
Some other things that I have noticed about the Sistema barrel: It's link will not travel completely to the rear. It gets stuck between the feet. It will go back far enough for the pin to mount under the lugs obviously but not much farther. I don't know that this matters as the link obviously won't be traveling there if the pin is in place, but I just thought I'd mention it.
I've gone and done it.
I've polluted the thread. Dave and Bill Z. didn't want to give up but it looks like I did. Sorry guys. I made the decision to jump on another barrel when I compared the fit of norinco barrel in my slide with the fit of the slide and barrels of some other guns in the shop, some of which had been heavily used.1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Barrel Revisited
Yep...back to square one.
Your Norinco barrel is toast. That was pretty evident from the pictures.
Happy, happy for you that I was wrong on the slide bein' toast too...at least I trust that your gunsmith didn't miss somethin'. Happy , happy for you that you had the foresight to double-check before ya shot the gun, or I might have been right in the final analysis.
The binding link isn't a concern as long as it's free from the in-battery position forward. There is no function rearward of the in-battery position.
Double-check that as well. Easy to correct if it is in a bind in the wrong place.
Since this one has been stepped on so many times, and because it shows an important reason why correct timing is so critical...I'll start new thread on it so that all may study the matter more carefully.
Luck!
Tuner
Yep...back to square one.
Your Norinco barrel is toast. That was pretty evident from the pictures.
Happy, happy for you that I was wrong on the slide bein' toast too...at least I trust that your gunsmith didn't miss somethin'. Happy , happy for you that you had the foresight to double-check before ya shot the gun, or I might have been right in the final analysis.
The binding link isn't a concern as long as it's free from the in-battery position forward. There is no function rearward of the in-battery position.
Double-check that as well. Easy to correct if it is in a bind in the wrong place.
Since this one has been stepped on so many times, and because it shows an important reason why correct timing is so critical...I'll start new thread on it so that all may study the matter more carefully.
Luck!
Tuner
Last edited:
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