Norway chooses HK 416

[NonServiam]

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article1733557.ece]

(I apologize for not having an article in English, I will post a new link as soon as I find one.)

Norway has chosen the HK 416 as the new infantry rifle, replacing the aging G3. So the army is going from 7.62 to 5.56, and as far as I understand the new caliber will also be chosen by all other branches of the Norwegian armed forces, excluding the National Guard ("Heimevernet"), which will keep their 7.62 G3s, and probably inherit all the other G3s as well.

Also, we're buying Aimpoints for all This is also new territory for Norway, apart from special forces and probably others that I don't know about.

As far as I understand there has been quite a heated internal argument about the new caliber, and I believe we are keeping the G3s in backup in case the forces are not happy with the 5.56.

I find we are arriving rather late at the 5.56 party, at a time where some of the other guests are contemplating leaving ...

Your thoughts much appreciated

There are also probably many other Norwegians here who can correct my mistakes and fill in where I left something out ...

 

[Nightcrawler]

I bet HK is happy. The military was never really interested in the 416, and since HK refuses commercial sales of the 416 upper (to anyone besides law enforcement, I mean), it isn't really going anywhere in the States.

Silly decision on HK's part, in my opinion. They'd sell a million of 'em if they'd offer the upper and/or complete rifle for commercial sale in the US. There are plenty of folks who want a gas piston AR, and plenty of fanboys that'll buy anything with "HK" stamped on it.

Their loss.

 

[El Tejon]

Night, yes, but they hate you and you suck.

 

[M67]

Look who crawled out of the woodwork!

At the range yesterday and here today. Girlfriend away this week?

 

[Shipwreck]

Silly decision on HK's part, in my opinion. They'd sell a million of 'em if they'd offer the upper and/or complete rifle for commercial sale in the US.

Yes, I think U are right about that - poor decision.

 

[eidsvolling]

Ikke nordmann, men norsk-amerikaner.

Here's a little more detail from the article. The Norwegian-made AG-3 (under license from Heckler & Kochs) has been Norway's standard military weapon since the 1960s. It went out of production 33 years ago.

It has taken eleven years to select a new weapon. Norwegian forces, especially those deployed in international operations, have made louder and louder demands for a new weapon. The selection process was marked by many strong opinions within the military. As late as last year, the Army decided to commit to an updated AG-3 as the future weapon. Vigorous protests followed, and in February the Army's inspector general relented and agreed that it would commit to a new weapon. (Side note -- Interbranch and intrabranch weapons debates are unknown to the U.S. service branches, right? )

The millitary signed a contract with H & K to buy 8200 HK 416 rifles. The contract is worth 100 million kroner (about USD $16.7 million.) Simultaneously the military is buying sights from Sweden's Aimpoint AB for 50 million kroner. The weapon is brand new and Norway is the first nation to put it in use for its armed forces. The first shipment will arrive in Norway in November. The first deployment will be overseas in the summer of 2008.

The 5.56 x 45mm ammunition weighs half what the AG-3's 7.62 x 51mm does. The magazine holds 30 rounds. With a full magazine the rifle weighs 4.1 kg (a hair over nine pounds.) The AG-3, with just 20 in the magazine, weighs 4.7 kg (10 lbs., 5 1/2 ozs.) (Note: the weight listed in the article for the HK 416 with 200 rounds of extra ammo is just 4.15 kg, which cannot be right. Anybody know the correct weights with loaded mag and with 200 extra rounds?)

As noted above, the Home Guard will continue to use the AG-3 for some years. Some of the AG-3s will be upgraded for use in international operations until the new weapons arrive.

 

[MD_Willington]

Now the big question...

Where's all their now "Surplus" 7.62 NATO ammo heading


Kidding... I see the home guard is still using that round.. but how much of it do they need....

 

[warth0g]

Surplus ammo.... You wish, with the current socialist goverment over here, we would never get to see any of it for civilans! They rather burn it, literally.
altough, HK416 is a good choice, in my opinion!

warthog

 

[PPGMD]

Norway is the first nation to widely deploy the Hk416, the US was the first to deploy it at all as they are used in a limited fashion. I think we might see a wider deployment of the piston system from other companies as it seems that just about everyone is making a version.

 

[Crunker1337]

The HK416 is basically an improved M-16, right?

 

[PPGMD]

The HK416 is basically an improved M-16, right?

The models are more designed around the M-4 but yes. The major change was to use a piston instead of a gas tube to move the bolt back. I believe it has some other changes but that is the major one.

Hk also has the 417 which is a 7.62 based gun using the same system.

 

[cbsbyte]

Here is a link to a HK fan site with detailed info on the HK416 and other HK weapons.

http://www.hkpro.com/hk416.htm

I believe the HK is fully compatiable with AR-15 lowers without modification.

 

[amprecon]

I wonder if they took into consideration the U.S. military's eyeballing of the 6.8spc upper that is being developed by Barrett for the entire M16/M4 class of small arms?
It seems that any country looking to replace their existing infantry rifles would look into what the leading small arms developers are experimenting with then look at how serious it's military is contemplating its acquisition, or at least wait until it has actually adopted it. Unless they are getting one heck of a deal on their "new" rifles, I would think what they already front should get them by until the latest and greatest comes out. I mean, they've gone this long in 7.62 enduring the 5.56 craze for 40+ years why not wait for the next new wonder-weapon?

 

[buzz_knox]

I mean, they've gone this long in 7.62 enduring the 5.56 craze for 40+ years why not wait for the next new wonder-weapon?

Maybe they don't believe said wonder-weapon is likely to exist for some time.

 

[doubleg]

Why doesn't the army make its own piston driven M4 since its having reliablitity issues with the gas tube and this would solve them. But i'd rather see them just switch to full size m16's than give HK a contract.

 

[universal]

NonServiam,

Mange tak for det link. Jeg kan laese Dansk, og kunne forstaa naesten alting i artiklen.

 

[Mannlicher]

if they outfit their entire armed forces, it will be a huge order. HK might sell them up to 500 rifles.

 

[10-Ring]

I wonder if they got a good price on those units the US Military ended up not purchasing

 

[DougW]

According to the Army Times, the US Army has rejected the HK416 for general issue. The SOF will change to the 416 or the new SOCOM rifle. It appears from the article that the brass don't believe the troops stories of issues with the M4A3's. US Army will stay with the M4A3 and the USMC will stay with the M16A4.

 

[Nightcrawler]

USSOCOM is getting the FN SCAR. It's already begun distribution.

Minor point: AFAIK, ain't no such thing as the M4A3. They stopped updating the "A1" "A2" things.

For instance: Original M4: fixed carry handle, three round burst trigger group. M4A1: Detachable carry handle, full auto.

New M4? Detachable carry handle, 3-round burst, but does not have any new designation. Same for the SAW. The standard version and the shorty version are both called simply "M249", which is a bit confusing.

The M16A3 is a flat-top with an A2 barrel and a full-auto trigger group. The M16A4 is an M16A2 but with a detachable carry handle.

Anyway, again, AFAIK, Heckler & Koch secured no DoD orders for the 416. The Pentagon seems to have dropped any interest in 6.8mm as well. I can understand that; rechambering your rifles in the middle of a war has to be a capital PITA.

 

[rangerruck]

I personally think, that either our military will stay with the 556, since so much hardware, and parts are based around it, or they will go to the 6.5 grendel. The adv of the grendel, compatible with many mags, belts, clips, parts, etc, with the 556, but you would still have to change all bbls, plus the case is borderline short to use in the saw weapons. but , it is as good downrange as a 308, and upclose, with the 110 or 115 grainers they plan to use, they can punch through your average barriers.

 

[Nightcrawler]

If *I* were in charge, the 40-year old M80 ball for 7.62 NATO would be replaced with something updated with better ballistic coefficients. I'm thinking a 168 grain, or even a 175 grain "heavy ball" round with a more uniform jacket (and maybe an air pocket in the nose like the British did with their old .303 round)?

The primary use of 7.62NATO is in belt-fed machine guns. These are long-ranged and have long barrels, so they could take advantage of a heavier bullet.

 

[ozarkhillbilly]

The millitary signed a contract with H & K to buy 8200 HK 416 rifles.

The Norwegian standing army has to be bigger then this, at least I would think so? NonServiam, could you tell us the approx size of your army?

 

[browningguy]

That's probably about right for the Army, as I remember several Norwegian firends and coworkers have told me the army is under 10,000.

 

[eidsvolling]

The millitary signed a contract with H & K to buy 8200 HK 416 rifles.

The Norwegian standing army has to be bigger then this, at least I would think so? NonServiam, could you tell us the approx size of your army?

Total for all branches in peacetime, including civilian staff, is 30,000. In event of national mobilization for crisis or war, that increases to 130,000. Total for the Army is actually just 7500 right now (I think that's excluding civilians, but not sure.) Navy has 3700, Air Force 2000. The Home Guard has 1200; a general callup increases that to 50,000.