jmbg29
member
You do understand the english language don't you?
Ask me if I care.
(NY) Another New Yorker Charged While Defending His Family
- Thread starter 12GA
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jmbg29,
I don't understand you're aggresive stance on this issue.
What is clear to me is that you really hate NYC.....you voiced your opinions of NYC in another thread and they are not exactly kind.
I simply pointed out in this thread that a permit for a handgun is availlable if you want it............I understand that we are not as fortunate as folks in other states in regards to the ease of obtaining firearms.The bottom line is that pro gunners are outnumbered in NYC by the antis.......We know that.
Whats your beef with sars comments?.....he sounds like a guy you would want on your team.....doesn't he?
ASK ME IF I CARE?......do you have any idea what we went through on 9/11 in NYC?.......nobody wants your pitty or sympathy......but we're on your side...aren't we?...howbout a little respect?...to much to ask for?.......I speak for myself when I say that my contributions to this city,my countryand the PRO GUN MOVEMENT command respect ....and if you walked a mile in my shoes I believe you would agree.
Listen ....life is tough to begin with ....work....kids...the bad economy and other stuff.....I think the New Yorkers who contribute to pro gun related activities are doing the best we can in a tough situation....for crying out loud...WE ARE OUTNUMBERED.
But you must realize that their are plenty of us that don't fit into the STEREOTYPE.
I tried my best to be reasonable with you......If you understand me ...fine....if not so be it.
I don't understand you're aggresive stance on this issue.
What is clear to me is that you really hate NYC.....you voiced your opinions of NYC in another thread and they are not exactly kind.
I simply pointed out in this thread that a permit for a handgun is availlable if you want it............I understand that we are not as fortunate as folks in other states in regards to the ease of obtaining firearms.The bottom line is that pro gunners are outnumbered in NYC by the antis.......We know that.
Whats your beef with sars comments?.....he sounds like a guy you would want on your team.....doesn't he?
ASK ME IF I CARE?......do you have any idea what we went through on 9/11 in NYC?.......nobody wants your pitty or sympathy......but we're on your side...aren't we?...howbout a little respect?...to much to ask for?.......I speak for myself when I say that my contributions to this city,my countryand the PRO GUN MOVEMENT command respect ....and if you walked a mile in my shoes I believe you would agree.
Listen ....life is tough to begin with ....work....kids...the bad economy and other stuff.....I think the New Yorkers who contribute to pro gun related activities are doing the best we can in a tough situation....for crying out loud...WE ARE OUTNUMBERED.
But you must realize that their are plenty of us that don't fit into the STEREOTYPE.
I tried my best to be reasonable with you......If you understand me ...fine....if not so be it.
Robby from Long Island
Member
jmbg29,
I'm not sure what your problem is, but as someone else pointed out you obviously hate New York and its residents.
I really don't want to get in p....... contest with you over some of your comments since that type of stuff turned me off another forum and I don't want that to happen here.
Apparently you live in a state with CCW where you can go around packing and feel pretty confident that if things go south real fast you can legally grab your handgun to equalize things.
In a non-CCW state like NY and many others, we're forced to handle testy situations barehanded against BG's who are always carrying boxcutters, folders, bayonets, martial arts toys and obviously, guns.
Contrary to what you might think, all New Yorkers are not sheeple, whether left or right.
I worked in NYC, Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx for over 35 years and while it often appears we're outnumbered by the BG's, there are still millions of very decent human beings just trying to survive each day to bring a paycheck home to their family. And these people consist of every race on earth packed into a very small area. It'a a miracle there isn't total mayhem, but the majority try to make it work.
I envy you and anyone else that live in a place where they can look in the eye of someone approaching them on the same side of the street without it appearing to be a challenge.
BTW, I was working on the 16th floor of tower one of the WTC when it got hit along with thousands of others, and just for the record, the many thousands of survivors were also very decent human beings who probaby wouldn't have appreciated some of your comments.
It's a shame you harbor such bitterness towards so many people you never met and have done you no harm.
I'm not sure what your problem is, but as someone else pointed out you obviously hate New York and its residents.
I really don't want to get in p....... contest with you over some of your comments since that type of stuff turned me off another forum and I don't want that to happen here.
Apparently you live in a state with CCW where you can go around packing and feel pretty confident that if things go south real fast you can legally grab your handgun to equalize things.
In a non-CCW state like NY and many others, we're forced to handle testy situations barehanded against BG's who are always carrying boxcutters, folders, bayonets, martial arts toys and obviously, guns.
Contrary to what you might think, all New Yorkers are not sheeple, whether left or right.
I worked in NYC, Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx for over 35 years and while it often appears we're outnumbered by the BG's, there are still millions of very decent human beings just trying to survive each day to bring a paycheck home to their family. And these people consist of every race on earth packed into a very small area. It'a a miracle there isn't total mayhem, but the majority try to make it work.
I envy you and anyone else that live in a place where they can look in the eye of someone approaching them on the same side of the street without it appearing to be a challenge.
BTW, I was working on the 16th floor of tower one of the WTC when it got hit along with thousands of others, and just for the record, the many thousands of survivors were also very decent human beings who probaby wouldn't have appreciated some of your comments.
It's a shame you harbor such bitterness towards so many people you never met and have done you no harm.
jmbg29
member
This
Was followed by this
Followed by this.
That says it all.
Not to mention ignoring completely that the "guys" that have caused poor "pr" would both be dead long before they ever got their "simple" permits.
The kid lived in JERSEY! Do I need to say it again? Do I need to repeat that even if he could get a permit, that he would have been dead about 7 months 4 weeks and a day or two under what you consider "available"?
One more time. If you think you are going to ever win any friends in any meaningful numbers from the left-wing, you are just flat wrong. If they can't instantaneously figure out that an Air Force hero and his mom alive, and a piece of scum dead on the floor is the ultimate win/win situation, then they are beyond REDEMPTION!!!!!!! Not a shred of humanity remains in them. Not one!
Wanting them as allies would therefore eclipse repugnant.
They do me harm every single day by tearing this country down and leading it into mindless anarchy. They no longer understand that the fundamental right to protect and preserve one's own life supercedes all else. Without the self, there is only the hive. No hive has ever, or will ever, produce a human being.
Even the abject horror of 9/11 has NO impact on their thinking or belief systems. Do me no harm? Hah!
jmbg29,
I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.
My comment was made so that anyone that DOES live in NYC would read it and understand that they do not need to be intimidated by the process of obtaining a hand gun permit in the city...............If you disagree show me where I stated otherwise.
What exactly is your point?......You keep stating that the man lived in NEW JERSEY......I know that, I read the story....Is your complaint that he is being treated unfairly?....Or do you just hate NYC?........Could this scenerio have taken place in a great number of other juristictions in the United States?...of course it could...all
states do not have reciprical laws.
NYC firearms laws SUCK ...we know....Did I mention that NYC firearm laws SUCK?.....While we are on the subject I think it is only right that I mention that NYC firearms laws SUCK.
I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.
My comment was made so that anyone that DOES live in NYC would read it and understand that they do not need to be intimidated by the process of obtaining a hand gun permit in the city...............If you disagree show me where I stated otherwise.
What exactly is your point?......You keep stating that the man lived in NEW JERSEY......I know that, I read the story....Is your complaint that he is being treated unfairly?....Or do you just hate NYC?........Could this scenerio have taken place in a great number of other juristictions in the United States?...of course it could...all
states do not have reciprical laws.
NYC firearms laws SUCK ...we know....Did I mention that NYC firearm laws SUCK?.....While we are on the subject I think it is only right that I mention that NYC firearms laws SUCK.
jmbg29
member
This is insane. You asked me "Whats your beef with sars comments?" I answered, and you come back with that?
The point is that he couldn't show proof that he lived in N.Y.C. because he lives in N.J., therefore he couldn't have gotten a permit even if he wanted one! So all of the handwringing over him not having one is pointless! The kid did exactly the right thing, and N.Y.C. is going to destroy him for it.
Of course it could. He would be just as screwed in almost 10 of them. So what? How does that change the fact that N.Y.C. wants this kid's blood?
Not to mention that most other jurisdictions wouldn't have completely missed the whole damn point! The kid stopped the robber! He is alive, and his mom is alive! THE BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME! No piece of paper ever made, no piece of paper filed with a .gov flunky could have made it any better!
If the kid had stopped the robber by killing him with a baseball bat, the scumbag would be just as dead. No one, not even people in N.Y.C. would be wondering how that was going to make other baseball bat owners look. Nobody would ask if the bat was "legal". New Yorkers with their deeply warped sense of rooting for the underdog would have simply recognized the kid for the hero he is. As it stands, he was on equal footing (in terms of weapons) with the piece of filth and he shot him dead. For that he not only gets no sympathy, but now he has to face getting raped in prison for a year, all for doing the right thing.
Because he used a dreaded "illegal gun" the kid gets left to twist in the wind while you guys say again and again and again that it would have been simple to get a handgun permit in N.Y.C.
You know, things like this
Robby from Long Island
Member
Sar,
I live in North Babylon out in Suffolk County. When I do get a chance to go shooting, it's out in Calverton. That's about an hours drive from my place.
Quite a few guys shoot at Brookhaven but I've never been there or Westhampton. Gotta try them sometime.
The reason I always went to Calverton is that it's open 12 months of the year and privately owned. They have pistol, black powder, shotgun and rifle ranges of 100, 200 and 300 yards.
$75 gets you unlimited shooting for the year.
Hopefully the rain we're getting this weekend washes away some of the 22 inches of snow we got last week. Would like to get out and break in a new Winchester 1300 Defender I bought a couple of weeks ago.
If you get a chance, send me some details of the Westhampton range facilities.
Safe shooting.
I live in North Babylon out in Suffolk County. When I do get a chance to go shooting, it's out in Calverton. That's about an hours drive from my place.
Quite a few guys shoot at Brookhaven but I've never been there or Westhampton. Gotta try them sometime.
The reason I always went to Calverton is that it's open 12 months of the year and privately owned. They have pistol, black powder, shotgun and rifle ranges of 100, 200 and 300 yards.
$75 gets you unlimited shooting for the year.
Hopefully the rain we're getting this weekend washes away some of the 22 inches of snow we got last week. Would like to get out and break in a new Winchester 1300 Defender I bought a couple of weeks ago.
If you get a chance, send me some details of the Westhampton range facilities.
Safe shooting.
my entire quote if jmbg29 doesn't mind.
jmbg29,
I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.
My comment was made so that anyone that DOES live in NYC would read it and understand that they do not need to be intimidated by the process of obtaining a hand gun permit in the city...............If you disagree show me where I stated otherwise.
jmbg29,
I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.
My comment was made so that anyone that DOES live in NYC would read it and understand that they do not need to be intimidated by the process of obtaining a hand gun permit in the city...............If you disagree show me where I stated otherwise.
gryphon
Member
Couldn't the law of competing harms ome into play here? He broke one law(using an unlicensed firearm) to prevent a potential murder/rape/aggravated robbery?
On that alone, they should be able to keep this guy form going to the clinker, yes?
On that alone, they should be able to keep this guy form going to the clinker, yes?
jmbg29
member
Back-pedal all you want. You want full quotes? Here is the original quote that I originally commented on in full:
Initially you asked the question "Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?"
Then you added (with no prompting from me) "If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit."
And then contradicted your own first and second sentences with "Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun."
With the icing on the cake being "The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time:banghead:"
Now it could be that - when speaking New Yorkese - the definition of "hard to get a handgun permit in NYC" is that it would take much, much, much, much, much, longer and/or it takes a really, really, really, really, really, really, LOOOOOONNNGGGG time! .
That would go a very long way to explain why sar would follow this
Now my problem might be that (being a free human being) I just don't understand New Yorkese enough to make sense of that quote.
Initially you asked the question "Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?"
Then you added (with no prompting from me) "If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit."
And then contradicted your own first and second sentences with "Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun."
With the icing on the cake being "The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time:banghead:"
Now it could be that - when speaking New Yorkese - the definition of "hard to get a handgun permit in NYC" is that it would take much, much, much, much, much, longer and/or it takes a really, really, really, really, really, really, LOOOOOONNNGGGG time! .
That would go a very long way to explain why sar would follow this
with this
And then say this
If that is the case, I apologize. I'm only familiar with a couple of foreign languages, and none of them employ backward logic. My bad.
jmbg29
member
Most anywhere else, yes.
jmbg29
member
It's all here in black and white.
jmbg29
member
Skunk, Quartus is right.
If it were, he'd be in SERIOUS trouble with the Air Force for unlawful use and possession of government weaponry outside of official duty. Contrary to popular belief, GI's just don't get to bring home their issue guns when on leave.
If it were, he'd be in SERIOUS trouble with the Air Force for unlawful use and possession of government weaponry outside of official duty. Contrary to popular belief, GI's just don't get to bring home their issue guns when on leave.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Sonny, I don't mean to pile on, but I don't understand what you're trying to say. You say it's not hard to get a permit, but then you cite all the ways in which it IS hard to get a permit. You say the kid should have gotten a permit to avoid all this trouble, but you dismiss the very pertinent fact that he could never have gotten a permit as "taking things out of context."
Seriously, sir, you must endeavor to speak the King's English from now on.
Seriously, sir, you must endeavor to speak the King's English from now on.
Don Gwinn,
When did I dismiss the fact that he could not get a permit in NYC?
Was it when I mentioned.
Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?
If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.
The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time
That was my entire quote.
I also clarified it by adding.
I simply pointed out in this thread that a permit for a handgun is availlable if you want it............I understand that we are not as fortunate as folks in other states in regards to the ease of obtaining firearms.The bottom line is that pro gunners are outnumbered in NYC by the antis.......We know that.
And then I added this.
I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.
My comment was made so that anyone that DOES live in NYC would read it and understand that they do not need to be intimidated by the process of obtaining a hand gun permit in the city...............If you disagree show me where I stated otherwise.
Please point me to where I said anything about the how the air force guy should have gotten a permit.......I have not deleted or edited any of my posts.
The comment on ...It's not that hard to get a permit in NYC seems to be a big topic on this thread.........What did I mean by that?
Truth is .....I have lived here in NYC my entire life and I can't believe how many New Yorkers are under the impression that a handgun permit is out of the question......Well ..it's not .
I guess you all consider waiting to be .....HARD.
It is not hard to me .....just extremely inconvenient and insulting to me as an American citizen.I believe the impression that many in NYC get is that you need to have a special reason to own a handgun in the city and the fact is that you don't.
Can you see why I made the comment now?....Please stop and reconsider what I wrote and If you have time please re-read the entire thread .I have no reason to lie to you guys on this subject and I ask you to accept my word as to my intentions when I made my comments.
When did I dismiss the fact that he could not get a permit in NYC?
Was it when I mentioned.
Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?
If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.
The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time
That was my entire quote.
I also clarified it by adding.
I simply pointed out in this thread that a permit for a handgun is availlable if you want it............I understand that we are not as fortunate as folks in other states in regards to the ease of obtaining firearms.The bottom line is that pro gunners are outnumbered in NYC by the antis.......We know that.
And then I added this.
I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.
My comment was made so that anyone that DOES live in NYC would read it and understand that they do not need to be intimidated by the process of obtaining a hand gun permit in the city...............If you disagree show me where I stated otherwise.
Please point me to where I said anything about the how the air force guy should have gotten a permit.......I have not deleted or edited any of my posts.
The comment on ...It's not that hard to get a permit in NYC seems to be a big topic on this thread.........What did I mean by that?
Truth is .....I have lived here in NYC my entire life and I can't believe how many New Yorkers are under the impression that a handgun permit is out of the question......Well ..it's not .
I guess you all consider waiting to be .....HARD.
It is not hard to me .....just extremely inconvenient and insulting to me as an American citizen.I believe the impression that many in NYC get is that you need to have a special reason to own a handgun in the city and the fact is that you don't.
Can you see why I made the comment now?....Please stop and reconsider what I wrote and If you have time please re-read the entire thread .I have no reason to lie to you guys on this subject and I ask you to accept my word as to my intentions when I made my comments.
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,831
The young man is a hero.
I couldn't find a reference in the article as to where the gun came from... was it his and just visiting with him, or was it mom's unregistered personal weapon?
I'd be willing to bet that it was his, that he'd never get a permit for it since he did not reside there and that, by the letter of the law, he's totally screwed...UNLESS a high ranking cop or two, an ADA or two, his commanding officer, master chief sargeant, ALL show up to plead his case in front of the Mayor and city council, the grand jury, Bill O'Reilly, Phil Donahue, whatever... and make some serious noise.
But it won't happen. The law, as its written, does what it was intended to do... slow or stop law abiding citizens from possessing a firearm and exercising what we like to call "their 2nd Amendment Rights". Not a violation of his Civil Rights, thats for sure. He doesn't even live there. He's just an American Citizen, serving his country. And his family.
In this case, and several others, the consequences are horrific.
So how will the law-abiding citizens of NYC, who may eventually be faced with real live Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists, wielding bombs or REAL Assault Weapons, fare? If they have a legally registered weapon... if they have NO weapon... If they are a criminal (or just say I happen to be visiting there and I never go anywhere without some form of Personal Defensive Device) and have an unregistered weapon and bring it to bear to solve the REAL CRIME?
Will the ADA end up charging any who are left standing holding an illegal smoking gun with a crime? Probably.
Just doing his job. Its the Law. Tell it to the judge.
How are the judges in NYC these days? Jury Nullification, you say?
And what about this kids Air Force career? Think this action will have a negative impact on it?
I'm sure his mom was glad he was there.
NYC gun laws DO Suck. Most DO.
Adios
I couldn't find a reference in the article as to where the gun came from... was it his and just visiting with him, or was it mom's unregistered personal weapon?
I'd be willing to bet that it was his, that he'd never get a permit for it since he did not reside there and that, by the letter of the law, he's totally screwed...UNLESS a high ranking cop or two, an ADA or two, his commanding officer, master chief sargeant, ALL show up to plead his case in front of the Mayor and city council, the grand jury, Bill O'Reilly, Phil Donahue, whatever... and make some serious noise.
But it won't happen. The law, as its written, does what it was intended to do... slow or stop law abiding citizens from possessing a firearm and exercising what we like to call "their 2nd Amendment Rights". Not a violation of his Civil Rights, thats for sure. He doesn't even live there. He's just an American Citizen, serving his country. And his family.
In this case, and several others, the consequences are horrific.
So how will the law-abiding citizens of NYC, who may eventually be faced with real live Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists, wielding bombs or REAL Assault Weapons, fare? If they have a legally registered weapon... if they have NO weapon... If they are a criminal (or just say I happen to be visiting there and I never go anywhere without some form of Personal Defensive Device) and have an unregistered weapon and bring it to bear to solve the REAL CRIME?
Will the ADA end up charging any who are left standing holding an illegal smoking gun with a crime? Probably.
Just doing his job. Its the Law. Tell it to the judge.
How are the judges in NYC these days? Jury Nullification, you say?
And what about this kids Air Force career? Think this action will have a negative impact on it?
I'm sure his mom was glad he was there.
NYC gun laws DO Suck. Most DO.
Adios
chaim
Member
Gee too bad this didn't happen in MD. Then he'd be facing no illegal weapons charges. So long as he bought his gun legally in NJ he would probably be ok on that end. He'd only be charged with murder for shooting someone to death
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
So why is it that these folks in New York seem so clueless about getting permits for their guns? It is the law. It has been the law for quite some time. These sorts of things seem to happen with a fair amount of frequency and yet the folks continue to own guns that are not licensed. That just amazes me.
So the guy did not live there and could not get a permit there. That does not mean that he gets to be above the law and have a gun there. Hard or easy to get the permit, or impossible, matters not. He broke the law.
Personally, I think the guy did exactly right for the shooting. The threat was identifed, compliance demanded, and when there was no compliance he used compliance by force with a head shot. So the shooting was perfectly valid. The only problem is that the shooting resulted in making it known that the guy had an unpermitted gun in NYC. So now he will have to deal with those problems.
It is a shame that such laws exist and I am sure that many of us might operate in the same manner if we visited someone in NYC. Why? Because we would rather suffer a gun violation than be dead.
Personally, I think it is in my best interest to not go to NYC.
So the guy did not live there and could not get a permit there. That does not mean that he gets to be above the law and have a gun there. Hard or easy to get the permit, or impossible, matters not. He broke the law.
Personally, I think the guy did exactly right for the shooting. The threat was identifed, compliance demanded, and when there was no compliance he used compliance by force with a head shot. So the shooting was perfectly valid. The only problem is that the shooting resulted in making it known that the guy had an unpermitted gun in NYC. So now he will have to deal with those problems.
It is a shame that such laws exist and I am sure that many of us might operate in the same manner if we visited someone in NYC. Why? Because we would rather suffer a gun violation than be dead.
Personally, I think it is in my best interest to not go to NYC.
Robby from Long Island
Member
Sonny,
Actually, you did a very good job of clarifying the situation. It's really not hard to follow you in what you said unless someone just wants NOT to understand.
I have to admit I was one of those people who also thought it almost impossible to get a handgun permit if a NYC resident but now I know better. It's not exactly like NYC advertises in the New York Times how residents can easily apply for the handgun permit.
The biggest obstacle to acquiring one is the waiting period. Most people who want to acquire anything in life want it within a reasonable timeframe. People who want a gun for protection when hearing that it might take a year for permit approval while a shotgun permit might only be a couple of months will opt for the shotgun and say to themselves, I'll get my handgun permit at a later date.
I did the same thing for 20 odd years myself. Living in Suffolk County (not NYC for you out of towners), I knew it would take me about 6 or 7 months before I was going to be approved or denied my permit. Whenever I thought about doing it, I gave up on the idea simply because I knew what I had to go through to get it. Go to my nearest precinct and get an application. Then go out to Yaphank Police Headquarters (an hours drive), fill out the application, get fingerprinted, go through a long interview, be told to come back with my discharge papers showing I was honorably discharged from the military (if you have anything but "Honorable" on it you are disqualified) bring a list of names of neighbors who will be interviewed by the police as to your character, etc. Then get several postal money orders to pay the several fees for the application. You are then advised you will hear from them upon completion of their background investigation of you. That includes Suffolk County PD, New York State PD, Federal and military background checks. The last thing they did was when a female detective called my wife and asked her a bunch of questions such as: did you know your husband applied for a pistol license, has he ever threatened you or anyone else, has he ever struck you ? etc. As apparently she gave all the right answers, they then mailed me my pistol license. Exactly 7 months to the day later from date of application.
I'm not going to bore anybody any further with details, but it's just as hard to keep it as get it.
You're at a restaurant with your wife and some drunk comes over and starts making passes at your wife, you shove him, a fight ensues and both parties are arrested. Police say "we'll sort it out later". It's later determined you were only protecting your wife, but the fact is you were ARRESTED, not convicted. It doesn't matter, you just lost your pistol license which will never be granted again because on your original application your advised if ever arrested you will not be granted a license. End of discussion.
I remember many years ago when I was in a drug store in Ohio, a local resident was in there and bought a .357 simply by showing his drivers license. Well, it ain't that easy here.
I'm not really able to discern why it's so hard for people to understand what Sonny has been saying unless they don't want to understand. Yeah, the system stinks and no one knows it better than those living here. Just be thankful you don't, but don't be so critical of those who do. Most of us live in NYS and NYC because we were born here, went to school here, have our families here and our jobs. I live here because I work in a field of international trade and ocean transportation. Not many openings for me in Colorado or Kansas, etc. Not many of us are about to simply pack up and move to a state just so we can have CCW. For some reason, having a job is also important.
This is turning into a rant, so let me just end it with give Sonny a break. He's just trying to explain something that's not so easy for most people to understand or accept.
BTW, Within the year I plan on retiring and moving to a real American state like Virginia, Pennsylvania, Forida or North Carolina that does have CCW.
Safe shooting.
Actually, you did a very good job of clarifying the situation. It's really not hard to follow you in what you said unless someone just wants NOT to understand.
I have to admit I was one of those people who also thought it almost impossible to get a handgun permit if a NYC resident but now I know better. It's not exactly like NYC advertises in the New York Times how residents can easily apply for the handgun permit.
The biggest obstacle to acquiring one is the waiting period. Most people who want to acquire anything in life want it within a reasonable timeframe. People who want a gun for protection when hearing that it might take a year for permit approval while a shotgun permit might only be a couple of months will opt for the shotgun and say to themselves, I'll get my handgun permit at a later date.
I did the same thing for 20 odd years myself. Living in Suffolk County (not NYC for you out of towners), I knew it would take me about 6 or 7 months before I was going to be approved or denied my permit. Whenever I thought about doing it, I gave up on the idea simply because I knew what I had to go through to get it. Go to my nearest precinct and get an application. Then go out to Yaphank Police Headquarters (an hours drive), fill out the application, get fingerprinted, go through a long interview, be told to come back with my discharge papers showing I was honorably discharged from the military (if you have anything but "Honorable" on it you are disqualified) bring a list of names of neighbors who will be interviewed by the police as to your character, etc. Then get several postal money orders to pay the several fees for the application. You are then advised you will hear from them upon completion of their background investigation of you. That includes Suffolk County PD, New York State PD, Federal and military background checks. The last thing they did was when a female detective called my wife and asked her a bunch of questions such as: did you know your husband applied for a pistol license, has he ever threatened you or anyone else, has he ever struck you ? etc. As apparently she gave all the right answers, they then mailed me my pistol license. Exactly 7 months to the day later from date of application.
I'm not going to bore anybody any further with details, but it's just as hard to keep it as get it.
You're at a restaurant with your wife and some drunk comes over and starts making passes at your wife, you shove him, a fight ensues and both parties are arrested. Police say "we'll sort it out later". It's later determined you were only protecting your wife, but the fact is you were ARRESTED, not convicted. It doesn't matter, you just lost your pistol license which will never be granted again because on your original application your advised if ever arrested you will not be granted a license. End of discussion.
I remember many years ago when I was in a drug store in Ohio, a local resident was in there and bought a .357 simply by showing his drivers license. Well, it ain't that easy here.
I'm not really able to discern why it's so hard for people to understand what Sonny has been saying unless they don't want to understand. Yeah, the system stinks and no one knows it better than those living here. Just be thankful you don't, but don't be so critical of those who do. Most of us live in NYS and NYC because we were born here, went to school here, have our families here and our jobs. I live here because I work in a field of international trade and ocean transportation. Not many openings for me in Colorado or Kansas, etc. Not many of us are about to simply pack up and move to a state just so we can have CCW. For some reason, having a job is also important.
This is turning into a rant, so let me just end it with give Sonny a break. He's just trying to explain something that's not so easy for most people to understand or accept.
BTW, Within the year I plan on retiring and moving to a real American state like Virginia, Pennsylvania, Forida or North Carolina that does have CCW.
Safe shooting.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Robby, I am not the one who criticized residents of New York. You, SAR, and Sonny have all said in this thread that these men are fools for not simply getting the permit. Then you have each told the rest of us that it is not that hard to get that permit.
Then you have each proceeded to hold forth at length as to all sorts of ways in which it is "that hard" to get a permit.
You have each contradicted yourselves in your own posts. You continue to contradict yourselves in your own posts. I'm not mad at you, or nuthin', but no, that's not easy to understand. It cannot be both difficult and easy to get the permit. Either it's hard to do or it isn't. Therefore you can't tell us it's both ways and expect anyone to understand it.
I thank you for explaining the specifics of how the permit is obtained, but I'm baffled as to why you continue to insist that they're "not that hard."
Then you have each proceeded to hold forth at length as to all sorts of ways in which it is "that hard" to get a permit.
You have each contradicted yourselves in your own posts. You continue to contradict yourselves in your own posts. I'm not mad at you, or nuthin', but no, that's not easy to understand. It cannot be both difficult and easy to get the permit. Either it's hard to do or it isn't. Therefore you can't tell us it's both ways and expect anyone to understand it.
I thank you for explaining the specifics of how the permit is obtained, but I'm baffled as to why you continue to insist that they're "not that hard."
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