jmbg29
member
It must be a language/culture/country barrier.
(NY) Another New Yorker Charged While Defending His Family
- Thread starter 12GA
- Start date
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Robby from Long Island
Member
Don Gwinn,
I know by now people are probably saying "enough already" and I don't blame them. Actually I found myself laughing about how bizarre the whole thread has become.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that nowhere did I ever call anyone a fool for not getting a permit nor have I ever said how hard it was to get a permit in NYC. What I did say was I originally THOUGHT it was almost impossible to acquire one, and I asked Sar to explain how it worked which he did.
I think it's pretty simple. Fill out the paperwork, pay the fee and wait for up to a year to see if you're approved. I learned something myself with their explanation.
Just about everybody who has read the story in New York is behind the airman, not just the people from other states. I know this as I read the local papers everyday.
I understand a lot of people don't like New Yorkers and their feelings a often justified. But not everybody from New York is arrogant and brash.
A lot of us are exceptionally conservative, pro-gun and Lifetime N.R.A. members.
I think it should also be remembered, we're all on the same page when it comes to the second amendment and the right to bear arms. And when I say "all", I'm talking about the members of THR and all the other pro-gun forums we participate in. I just feel we should stop nit-picking someone else's post because it might not be worded the way we would do it.
Don, none of the above is meant as criticism, just an explanation.
Safe shooting.
I know by now people are probably saying "enough already" and I don't blame them. Actually I found myself laughing about how bizarre the whole thread has become.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that nowhere did I ever call anyone a fool for not getting a permit nor have I ever said how hard it was to get a permit in NYC. What I did say was I originally THOUGHT it was almost impossible to acquire one, and I asked Sar to explain how it worked which he did.
I think it's pretty simple. Fill out the paperwork, pay the fee and wait for up to a year to see if you're approved. I learned something myself with their explanation.
Just about everybody who has read the story in New York is behind the airman, not just the people from other states. I know this as I read the local papers everyday.
I understand a lot of people don't like New Yorkers and their feelings a often justified. But not everybody from New York is arrogant and brash.
A lot of us are exceptionally conservative, pro-gun and Lifetime N.R.A. members.
I think it should also be remembered, we're all on the same page when it comes to the second amendment and the right to bear arms. And when I say "all", I'm talking about the members of THR and all the other pro-gun forums we participate in. I just feel we should stop nit-picking someone else's post because it might not be worded the way we would do it.
Don, none of the above is meant as criticism, just an explanation.
Safe shooting.
Intune
Member
Steaming!
Yoos guys! What accent? Ya’ll come visit now, ya hear?! Firearms restrictions suck and they only affect the honest citizen. How draconian those restrictions are is just a matter of degrees state by state. The hoops keep getting higher and smaller. A criminal can and will carry anywhere, taking great care to avoid the airport and courthouse w/ their detectors. Open season on us most everywhere else. I, on the other hand, as a law-abiding citizen, am put in a potentially life-threatening position by obeying the law (disarming) and going to a nightclub as part of my job to hear a band. Totally defenseless at 2:00 am in a less than savory part of town. What are my chances of suing the city or state if something catastrophic were to occur after they effectively disarmed me? Pretty low I’d say. And would that make anything better?
We should be able to carry EVERYWHERE at ANYTIME with no permit required as citizens of the United States of America. We shouldn’t have to prove that we are fine upstanding members of our community with no criminal record for them to give us permission to utilize a RIGHT! THEY should have to prove, upon discovery that I am carrying a firearm, that I am somehow not FIT to be doing so. It is a truly sickening state of affairs when one cannot defend life without retribution from those who serve US!
Yoos guys! What accent? Ya’ll come visit now, ya hear?! Firearms restrictions suck and they only affect the honest citizen. How draconian those restrictions are is just a matter of degrees state by state. The hoops keep getting higher and smaller. A criminal can and will carry anywhere, taking great care to avoid the airport and courthouse w/ their detectors. Open season on us most everywhere else. I, on the other hand, as a law-abiding citizen, am put in a potentially life-threatening position by obeying the law (disarming) and going to a nightclub as part of my job to hear a band. Totally defenseless at 2:00 am in a less than savory part of town. What are my chances of suing the city or state if something catastrophic were to occur after they effectively disarmed me? Pretty low I’d say. And would that make anything better?
We should be able to carry EVERYWHERE at ANYTIME with no permit required as citizens of the United States of America. We shouldn’t have to prove that we are fine upstanding members of our community with no criminal record for them to give us permission to utilize a RIGHT! THEY should have to prove, upon discovery that I am carrying a firearm, that I am somehow not FIT to be doing so. It is a truly sickening state of affairs when one cannot defend life without retribution from those who serve US!
Don Gwinn,
Here we go again..........Show me where ....I....Sonny....ME......
Said anything about how how "these men are fools for not simply getting there permits"
You just accused me of saying that in your last post.
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Robby, I am not the one who criticized residents of New York. You, SAR, and Sonny have all said in this thread that these men are fools for not simply getting the permit. Then you have each told the rest of us that it is not that hard to get that permit.
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After reading the thread ....AGAIN......I will explain....AGAIN...why my initial comment was made......Before I said anything.......
Boats said.....Maybe had they used shotguns the DA would have nothing to prosecute? What is the law concerning long guns there?
After him.....12GA said......He'd be fine with a long gun as long as it was registered. Yup, in NYC you must register your rifles and shotguns too. The permits are not nearly as difficult to obtain as those for handguns. However, you still have to get fingerprinted, supply passport type photos and pony up the cash every three years.
After him.....Baba Louie said.....
That NYC law really isn't such a bad law if they'd actually allow a license now and then. I guess only the rich and famous need apply, eh?
Then Blackhawk said.....That's right, Lenny, except in NYC and other commie enclaves in the U.S.
Vote them OUT, while you still have a chance, IF you still have a chance....
Well... that's where I said......Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?
If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.
The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time.
Let me simplify this ....if you are 21 and not a felon...go to 1 police plaza with the required documents apply and wait .....after the humiliating and unfair waiting period ......YOU WILL GET YOUR PERMIT!
The ...HARD...part is over .....OVER....OVER. You may now enjoy the rest of your life as a handgun owner.
Compared to GUN FRIENDLY STATES the waiting period SUCKS,
SUCKS,SUCKS...My god! ...we know.
Not that hard is a relative statement......when some of you guys get in your trucks and drive 30 minutes for a gallon of milk do you consider it hard?.....I just walk out my door and across the street.......I'm not trying to be a wise guy but please try not to take things out of context ...especially when I am trying to be informative to potential gun owners.
Don...........SHOW ME WHERE I MADE THE COMMENTS THAT YOU ACCUSE ME OF MAKING....and we can put this one to sleep.
Here we go again..........Show me where ....I....Sonny....ME......
Said anything about how how "these men are fools for not simply getting there permits"
You just accused me of saying that in your last post.
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Robby, I am not the one who criticized residents of New York. You, SAR, and Sonny have all said in this thread that these men are fools for not simply getting the permit. Then you have each told the rest of us that it is not that hard to get that permit.
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After reading the thread ....AGAIN......I will explain....AGAIN...why my initial comment was made......Before I said anything.......
Boats said.....Maybe had they used shotguns the DA would have nothing to prosecute? What is the law concerning long guns there?
After him.....12GA said......He'd be fine with a long gun as long as it was registered. Yup, in NYC you must register your rifles and shotguns too. The permits are not nearly as difficult to obtain as those for handguns. However, you still have to get fingerprinted, supply passport type photos and pony up the cash every three years.
After him.....Baba Louie said.....
That NYC law really isn't such a bad law if they'd actually allow a license now and then. I guess only the rich and famous need apply, eh?
Then Blackhawk said.....That's right, Lenny, except in NYC and other commie enclaves in the U.S.
Vote them OUT, while you still have a chance, IF you still have a chance....
Well... that's where I said......Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?
If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.
The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time.
Let me simplify this ....if you are 21 and not a felon...go to 1 police plaza with the required documents apply and wait .....after the humiliating and unfair waiting period ......YOU WILL GET YOUR PERMIT!
The ...HARD...part is over .....OVER....OVER. You may now enjoy the rest of your life as a handgun owner.
Compared to GUN FRIENDLY STATES the waiting period SUCKS,
SUCKS,SUCKS...My god! ...we know.
Not that hard is a relative statement......when some of you guys get in your trucks and drive 30 minutes for a gallon of milk do you consider it hard?.....I just walk out my door and across the street.......I'm not trying to be a wise guy but please try not to take things out of context ...especially when I am trying to be informative to potential gun owners.
Don...........SHOW ME WHERE I MADE THE COMMENTS THAT YOU ACCUSE ME OF MAKING....and we can put this one to sleep.
ROBBY,
I think it is upon people like you and me to let others in NY know that you DON'T have to be SPECIAL to get a handgun in NY.
I am serious about this....somehow it became urban legend that handgun ownership in NY was impossible.....growing up friends always thought I was "CONNECTED" or something because I went shooting .....I tried to explain....many listened and became gun owners themselves ....others just said....Yea..O.K.
I have converted a great many antis over the years.....it's our only hope......spread the word
I think it is upon people like you and me to let others in NY know that you DON'T have to be SPECIAL to get a handgun in NY.
I am serious about this....somehow it became urban legend that handgun ownership in NY was impossible.....growing up friends always thought I was "CONNECTED" or something because I went shooting .....I tried to explain....many listened and became gun owners themselves ....others just said....Yea..O.K.
I have converted a great many antis over the years.....it's our only hope......spread the word
robby & sonny,
Just so everyone's on the same page, you're talking about a permit just to own, in your own private residence, a firearm, right? Any patient person with a clean record can do it for ~$100 per year? And that is $100 per firearm (not per person?). So if a guy wants to have a modest 20 pistol collection, how much $$$ per year? Would it even be possible?
How about the requirements for concealed carry in NYC? More patience and more $$$ required, or something else? Not to be obtuse, but I think some of the vitriol is directed at the presumed impossibility of being able to obtain CCW license in NYC (unless you're "connected"). Although you are more than welcome to give us your first hand experience on this, too. Thanks in advance.
Just so everyone's on the same page, you're talking about a permit just to own, in your own private residence, a firearm, right? Any patient person with a clean record can do it for ~$100 per year? And that is $100 per firearm (not per person?). So if a guy wants to have a modest 20 pistol collection, how much $$$ per year? Would it even be possible?
How about the requirements for concealed carry in NYC? More patience and more $$$ required, or something else? Not to be obtuse, but I think some of the vitriol is directed at the presumed impossibility of being able to obtain CCW license in NYC (unless you're "connected"). Although you are more than welcome to give us your first hand experience on this, too. Thanks in advance.
As bad as CA gun laws are, I don't need a permit to buy a handgun, shotgun or rifle. In WA it took 30 days to get my concealed handgun permit; the paperwork was simple and short. Further, the fee was much less than NYC’s gun permit and it allows me to carry concealed, whereas NYC’s permit is just to accomplish the relatively simple process of obtaining.
I find Sonny's arguments regarding NYC gun permits to be a good example of why the process is onerous. Sonny’s thinking that the NYC system isn’t that difficult and his arguments in that regard only show how far NYC thinking has slipped from the mainstream. Sonny, you really gotta get rid of the Sullivan Law. Your arguments make it seem that you think it’s normal -- it’s not.
I find Sonny's arguments regarding NYC gun permits to be a good example of why the process is onerous. Sonny’s thinking that the NYC system isn’t that difficult and his arguments in that regard only show how far NYC thinking has slipped from the mainstream. Sonny, you really gotta get rid of the Sullivan Law. Your arguments make it seem that you think it’s normal -- it’s not.
FUHGEDABOUTIT!!!!!!
I left NYC over 25 yrs ago, and STILL rejoice that I'm out!
NOBODY gets NOTHIN' there without a lot of difficulty.
Dad SOLD his rifle collection, AFTER he transported them out, rather than register them.
TRY being an AMERICAN there, and you will certainly feel like a
foreign minority; as far as city laws are concerned.
IT'S A NO-WIN SITUATION!!!!!
I left NYC over 25 yrs ago, and STILL rejoice that I'm out!
NOBODY gets NOTHIN' there without a lot of difficulty.
Dad SOLD his rifle collection, AFTER he transported them out, rather than register them.
TRY being an AMERICAN there, and you will certainly feel like a
foreign minority; as far as city laws are concerned.
IT'S A NO-WIN SITUATION!!!!!
My god I guess I'm going to have to take on all of THR by myself ....O.K.
Riverdog.......did you read all my comments?My arguments make it seem as if it's normal?...Normal...NOrmal...NORmal...NORMal...NORMAl..NORMAL!?
IT'S NOT NORMAL....IT'S CRIMINAL....I have stated that over and over....All I am suggesting is that New Yorkers should not be intimidated by the abnormal way in which the city scares off potential handguners.
Riverdog.......did you read all my comments?My arguments make it seem as if it's normal?...Normal...NOrmal...NORmal...NORMal...NORMAl..NORMAL!?
IT'S NOT NORMAL....IT'S CRIMINAL....I have stated that over and over....All I am suggesting is that New Yorkers should not be intimidated by the abnormal way in which the city scares off potential handguners.
sonny said:
I was averaging. To summarize what I read in this thread...
sar posted:
$255 + $74 = $329, for three years...roughly $100/per year/per gun? Unless you tell us that some of these charges are "one time only"...or not repeated for multiple handgun purchases.
That is not what I deduced from the thread, but I don't pretend to be an expert, and am not trying to get into an argument. Just trying to correctly understand the facts. Aside from the cost involved, what are the implications for the small handgun collector? Seems like it would be a major hassle to register/unregister guns that you bought and sold in the course of a year. Waiting months to approve each purchase? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding things... Regards.
I was averaging. To summarize what I read in this thread...
sar posted:
and mjustice posted:
12ga posted:
and sonny said:
$255 + $74 = $329, for three years...roughly $100/per year/per gun? Unless you tell us that some of these charges are "one time only"...or not repeated for multiple handgun purchases.
That is not what I deduced from the thread, but I don't pretend to be an expert, and am not trying to get into an argument. Just trying to correctly understand the facts. Aside from the cost involved, what are the implications for the small handgun collector? Seems like it would be a major hassle to register/unregister guns that you bought and sold in the course of a year. Waiting months to approve each purchase? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding things... Regards.
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,831
Ah Vermont.
Now theres a state with gun laws I kinda like.
Do they have any that "INFRINGE" on the right to keep and bear arms?
So close to NY too.
Wonder what went wrong with them?
Adios all, Done with this thread... for now.
Now theres a state with gun laws I kinda like.
Do they have any that "INFRINGE" on the right to keep and bear arms?
So close to NY too.
Wonder what went wrong with them?
Adios all, Done with this thread... for now.
http://nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/dclm/ldinfo.html ....regards
TheOtherOne
Member
If only he would have waited 8-12 months to get a registered, legal handgun... then he could of at least protected his mothers grave site from potential vandals.
If I lived in NYC where criminals, for who knows why, refuse to follow the law of not carrying a gun, I would sure own a handgun too. Regardless of what anyone says about legality. I guess it's good I don't live in NYC.
sonny,
Unless I'm missing something, the link you posted says nothing about a 3-year timeframe, renewal costs, or multiple handgun purchases...
Excerpt from the link:
If one reads this literally, "a handgun" means one (1) handgun. Or the whole thing could be poorly written. Multiple handguns?Now I'm more confused.
Unless I'm missing something, the link you posted says nothing about a 3-year timeframe, renewal costs, or multiple handgun purchases...
Excerpt from the link:
If one reads this literally, "a handgun" means one (1) handgun. Or the whole thing could be poorly written. Multiple handguns?Now I'm more confused.
Fair enough, maybe I have misread what you wrote, but when I read:
"Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?" Because it is incredibly burdomsome with an incredibly long waiting period -- JUST TO BUY A GUN. Everyone thinks it is so hard because it is hard ... well, everyone but Sonny thinks it's hard
hammer4nc,
I forgot how unspecific NYC firearm website is ....sorry
After the initial waiting period and fees you don't get charged again for initial handguns.....one every three months if you want.
That is another rule we all object to but have not been able to change as of yet.
I hope that answeres your question.
As far as the written law NYC is famous for not being specific,it is very frustrating....believe me
The permit most of us get is a home defense with a target shooting endorsment......We may keep it loaded at home and when going to the range we must keep it in a locked container unloaded with bullets seperate.WE did win the battle that alows us to go to the range anytime we like instead of the old law that allowed us two days a month that had to be specified before hand.........go ahead and laugh.....but a win is a win in my book.
Locked container is unspecific.......wood? ...metal?...a fannypack?
doesn't specify.....very confusing.
The renewal fee is the same no matter how many guns you own since it does not say on the website I thought I'd let you know.
Thinking about moving here?.....change your name to...........
hammer4nYc.....we could use all the pro gunners we can get
I forgot how unspecific NYC firearm website is ....sorry
After the initial waiting period and fees you don't get charged again for initial handguns.....one every three months if you want.
That is another rule we all object to but have not been able to change as of yet.
I hope that answeres your question.
As far as the written law NYC is famous for not being specific,it is very frustrating....believe me
The permit most of us get is a home defense with a target shooting endorsment......We may keep it loaded at home and when going to the range we must keep it in a locked container unloaded with bullets seperate.WE did win the battle that alows us to go to the range anytime we like instead of the old law that allowed us two days a month that had to be specified before hand.........go ahead and laugh.....but a win is a win in my book.
Locked container is unspecific.......wood? ...metal?...a fannypack?
doesn't specify.....very confusing.
The renewal fee is the same no matter how many guns you own since it does not say on the website I thought I'd let you know.
Thinking about moving here?.....change your name to...........
hammer4nYc.....we could use all the pro gunners we can get
Robby from Long Island
Member
I really don't want to get involved in the requirement section of NYC law pertaining to private ownership of handguns as I am not a resident of NYC.
The handgun license I have for Suffolk County is for Premise only. It is very difficult to get a carry permit on Long Island. The premise permit does allow target shooting .
The handgun license I have for Suffolk County is for Premise only. It is very difficult to get a carry permit on Long Island. The premise permit does allow target shooting .
Robby from Long Island
Member
Sonny,
Sorry I couldn't be more help to you on this issue today, but I have a house full of company and haven't been able to get away.
Seems you have done a great job with NYC requirements directly from the NYPD.
As far as Suffolk County is concerned, there is no restrictions on the number of handguns you may own under the one license nor are there any additional charges for owning several guns.
BTW, where do you do your target shooting?
Safe shooting.
Sorry I couldn't be more help to you on this issue today, but I have a house full of company and haven't been able to get away.
Seems you have done a great job with NYC requirements directly from the NYPD.
As far as Suffolk County is concerned, there is no restrictions on the number of handguns you may own under the one license nor are there any additional charges for owning several guns.
BTW, where do you do your target shooting?
Safe shooting.
Mostly west side range in NYC and Woodhaven in Queens.
I shoot on private property upstate when possible.I'd invite you to shoot in the city but unfortunatly you are not allowed.
That should give some of the others something else to mock and laugh about..........what the hell.
I've been out to the ranges on the island on occasion ...what's your favorite outdoor range .....are the range masters ball breakers or do they let you have fun as long as you are safe?
I shoot on private property upstate when possible.I'd invite you to shoot in the city but unfortunatly you are not allowed.
That should give some of the others something else to mock and laugh about..........what the hell.
I've been out to the ranges on the island on occasion ...what's your favorite outdoor range .....are the range masters ball breakers or do they let you have fun as long as you are safe?
Robby from Long Island
Member
I shoot out at the Calverton range in Calverton, L.I
It is a privately owned range that covers pistol, shotgun, black powder and rifle. The rifle facility has a 100, 200 and 300 yard ranges.
It is a very relaxed place with the range officer only controlling the rifle range. Pistol and black powder is controlled by the shooters themselves who determine when a cease fire is in order. I've never seen a time when shooters don't respect someones request for a cease fire to check or change targets.
It's pretty much 15 minutes shooting and 5 for cease fire.
There are no restrictions as to how long you may stay as there are seldom that many shooters there at one time. Been shooting there for about 20 years.
It is a privately owned range that covers pistol, shotgun, black powder and rifle. The rifle facility has a 100, 200 and 300 yard ranges.
It is a very relaxed place with the range officer only controlling the rifle range. Pistol and black powder is controlled by the shooters themselves who determine when a cease fire is in order. I've never seen a time when shooters don't respect someones request for a cease fire to check or change targets.
It's pretty much 15 minutes shooting and 5 for cease fire.
There are no restrictions as to how long you may stay as there are seldom that many shooters there at one time. Been shooting there for about 20 years.
DeltaElite
Member
The permit system is a shame, no permit is needed, according to the 2A.
Finally........ My State is bigger than your State and my Governor can beat up your Governor.
Finally........ My State is bigger than your State and my Governor can beat up your Governor.
mjustice
Member
The process to get a pistol license is "simple" only if you fit their narrowly defined requirements.
For example:
If you're a foreign national with permanent resident status and you've been in the US of A for less than 7 years, you need to obtain a certificate of good conduct from your country of origin. What the hell is that about?
They ask if you have ever held any kind of license or permit from any agency at any time. If you fail to provide a statement about your driver's license, they can reject your application and keep your money!
You want a carry license for your business? Be prepared to show tax returns for the past year along with other business records. They can be just as invasive as the IRS.
The bottom line is that the airman was not eligble for a license, and depending on where his mother was born, it might not be easy for her either.
New York City goes out of their way to make things difficult. Even if you have a pistol license, you can only purchase one firearm every 90 days, and it can take up to 30 days for them to issue the paperwork. Every other county in the state can do this in one day and you can usually buy as many handguns as you can carry out of the store.
Things have become so bad in recent years even the "elite" have problems these days. One man (a magazine editor) lost his license after being arrested in a peaceful demonstration at police headquarters.
The real problem is that the men who could fix this problem (the speaker of the NYS Assembly, Sheldon Silver, and the chairman of the NYS Assembly Codes Committee, Joe Lentol) don't care because they are anti jerks who won't let the bill see the light of day because it doesn't jive with their interests, and it won't get them more votes.
The system has been a sick joke for 92 years and shows no real signs of changing anytime soon - and the gun owners share in the blame since the 2A movement in this state is badly fractured.
MJ
For example:
If you're a foreign national with permanent resident status and you've been in the US of A for less than 7 years, you need to obtain a certificate of good conduct from your country of origin. What the hell is that about?
They ask if you have ever held any kind of license or permit from any agency at any time. If you fail to provide a statement about your driver's license, they can reject your application and keep your money!
You want a carry license for your business? Be prepared to show tax returns for the past year along with other business records. They can be just as invasive as the IRS.
The bottom line is that the airman was not eligble for a license, and depending on where his mother was born, it might not be easy for her either.
New York City goes out of their way to make things difficult. Even if you have a pistol license, you can only purchase one firearm every 90 days, and it can take up to 30 days for them to issue the paperwork. Every other county in the state can do this in one day and you can usually buy as many handguns as you can carry out of the store.
Things have become so bad in recent years even the "elite" have problems these days. One man (a magazine editor) lost his license after being arrested in a peaceful demonstration at police headquarters.
The real problem is that the men who could fix this problem (the speaker of the NYS Assembly, Sheldon Silver, and the chairman of the NYS Assembly Codes Committee, Joe Lentol) don't care because they are anti jerks who won't let the bill see the light of day because it doesn't jive with their interests, and it won't get them more votes.
The system has been a sick joke for 92 years and shows no real signs of changing anytime soon - and the gun owners share in the blame since the 2A movement in this state is badly fractured.
MJ
twoblink
Member
It seems to me, that the DA needs to get robbed... That's just me personally...
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