OK what is the story here.

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Bruce H

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Maricopa SWAT Disbanded
Arpaio SWAT move ripped
By Mark Flatten, Tribune

Joe Arpaio

The Maricopa County sheriff’s SWAT team was abruptly disbanded shortly after two of its officers were shot serving a high-risk search warrant in a murder investigation, the Tribune has learned.

In the weeks before the raid, the unit’s top two commanders were reassigned without explanation, replaced by supervisors from outside the elite unit. Sheriff Joe Arpaio said the transfers are part of a routine reorganization of his office, implemented shortly after the Nov. 2 general election. In all, about 300 employees in the sheriff’s office, including command staff, sworn officers and detention officers, are being moved as part of the reorganization.

On Monday, Arpaio denied concerns, raised by former sheriff’s officers, including the head of one police union, that the transfers were political retaliation against those who supported his opponents in the Republican primary and general elections.

The 12 members of the fulltime SWAT team are being reassigned to other duties, Arpaio said. The SWAT unit will be rebuilt with other officers who will also perform patrol duties, he said.

In the interim, the sheriff’s office will rely on the Arizona Department of Public Safety and other local police agencies that have active SWAT teams to respond to incidents such as barricades or hostage situations, he said.

The revamping of the SWAT team is being questioned both within the department and by officers outside the sheriff’s office. "I hate to see it come to an end," said Deputy Sean Pearce, one of two SWAT team members shot while serving the warrant in Mesa on Dec. 16. "You are talking years and years of experience among the guys who were transferred. Thousands of dollars were put into training us and getting us up to the standards that we were at. I hate to see it happen. Nobody has given us an answer as to why."
Pearce, son of state Rep. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, accompanied his father on the floor of the state House of Representatives Monday for the opening day of the legislative session. Both he and his father supported Dan Saban, a former Mesa police officer, in Saban’s unsuccessful bid to oust Arpaio in the Republican primary last year.

The departmentwide reorganization was announced shortly after the election, and the transfers were effective Nov. 22, according to documents obtained by the Tribune. Capt. Phillip Babb, who had been the captain in charge of the SWAT team, was reassigned to the general investigations unit. He was replaced by Capt. Joel Fox, who served briefly on the SWAT team in a part-time capacity in the 1990s. The team’s front-line commander, Lt. Michael Mitchell, was reassigned to the training unit. He was replaced by Lt. Dave Trombi, the sheriff ’s former public information officer who has no SWAT experience.

Both Babb and Mitchell had come up through the ranks of the SWAT team. They were well-respected by other SWAT officers in the Valley who were contacted Monday. Babb, who was the captain in charge of the SWAT team for six years, said Monday he was not told why he was being transferred, other than that there was a reorganization in the agency.

Fox and Trombi were in place as the SWAT team’s new commanders on the morning of Dec. 16, when Sean Pearce and Deputy Lew Argetsinger were shot during the police operation in east Mesa. Pearce was shot in the abdomen and Argetsinger in the hand. The suspect was wounded by another deputy.

Arpaio said the tactical decisions made the night the deputies were shot came from experienced SWAT team members, not the new supervisors. Pearce said he has not been told where he will be assigned when he returns to duty. The other members of the SWAT team have already been reassigned.

Arpaio said the agency’s reorganization was planned long before the election, but that he waited until mid-November to finalize the shake-up. If he had lost, it would not have been fair to hand his successor a newly reorganized agency, Arpaio said.

Deputies are being recruited for the new team, which will resume taking assignments after its members are trained, Arpaio said. "It’s time to get some fresh blood in there, to give other deputies a chance to be on the team," Arpaio said. "We’re trying to get more deputies on the streets, so our new deputies will be doing other jobs, too, including patrol, to help our response times."

Arpaio’s decision to scrap the existing team was slammed by experienced SWAT commanders, including the former head of the unit. Keith Frakes, who spent more than 10 years on the team before retiring from the agency as a captain in April, said the sweeping changes Arpaio has instituted since the election smack of politics. "When you look at a lot of these transfers, they weren’t done for the good of the office," Frakes said of the departmentwide changes. "They were punitive in nature. They were rewarding people who they felt were supportive and punishing those that they think weren’t. I think they kind of lumped the whole SWAT team into that a little bit." Chris Gerberry, president of the Maricopa County Deputies’ Association, also said the departmentwide transfers show a pattern of rewarding Arpaio’s political supporters with choice assignments.

The county’s SWAT team has built a national reputation, and its members frequently trained officers from across the country, Frakes said. While it would not be unusual to change commanders or officers on the SWAT team one or two at a time, disbanding the entire unit robs the agency of the expertise and experience that would be valuable in training new members, Frakes said. "That is an unprecedented move and it’s clearly indicative of a bigger problem," Frakes said. "It’s a travesty. It’s a travesty from all of the things that have been invested over the years. And you’ve got citizens that were robbed of a potential response capability that could have been brought to bear to help them."

Ron McCarthy, a former Los Angeles Police Department SWAT team supervisor and now a consultant on special police teams, said disbanding an experienced SWAT team with the national reputation that the county’s unit had "is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard."

Aside from classroom training, it takes years of experience to hone the skills necessary to serve effectively on a SWAT team, McCarthy said. Replacing the entire team without reason amounts to squandering the time and money spent on their training, he said. "If he (Arpaio) has made the decision to disband the SWAT team and put in newer, younger people, that’s dumb," McCarthy said. "They’re making a mistake." Lt. Bob Gervasi, commander of the Mesa SWAT unit, said he and other Valley SWAT supervisors were surprised when they were told the entire sheriff’s unit was being reassigned.
Like McCarthy, Gervasi said it takes years to fully train a SWAT team member. Disbanding the sheriff’s SWAT team will not compromise public safety because other agencies will respond when called, Gervasi said. Officer Frank Valenzuela, spokesman for the Arizona Department of Public Safety, said the state agency’s SWAT team has always responded when other agencies call for help. DPS’ SWAT officers often assisted the sheriff’s team in the past, and will be able to handle calls from the office, Valenzuela said. DPS has one full-time SWAT unit in the Valley and another part-time unit, Valenzuela said.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=34541
 
Good for Sheriff Arpaio. There is no place for a standing SWAT team in every town and village across this land. Police need to find alternative ways of arresting criminals rather than relying on brute force and no knock dynamic entry.
 
Good for Sheriff Arpaio. There is no place for a standing SWAT team in every town and village across this land. Police need to find alternative ways of arresting criminals rather than relying on brute force and no knock dynamic entry.

RileyMc,

If it is your position that the county sheriff shouldn't have a SWAT team, then just who do you suggest should have one?

Pilgrim
 
If it is your position that the county sheriff shouldn't have a SWAT team, then just who do you suggest should have one?
Nobody. Why does Maricopa County need a swat team?
 
According to the article.
The 12 members of the fulltime SWAT team are being reassigned to other duties, Arpaio said. The SWAT unit will be rebuilt with other officers who will also perform patrol duties, he said.

He is getting a new SWAT team with new people that need training. How is he going to justify the expense when he already had trained personnel? Something really stinks about this but I don't live in the area thus the question.
 
So, when a situation arises when more skill, training, equipment, and tactics expertise is required than the average peace officer is likely to possess, are you suggesting the Army takes care of it?
What "situation" might require full time funding of the equivalent of a military organization within a county sheriff's department, especially in Maricopa County AZ?
 
Riley, you always provide me with a good belly laugh.
I try not to think about the fact that you are serious.

Why would the county containing the sixth largest city in the US need a SWAT team ? :rolleyes:
 
What "situation" might require full time funding of the equivalent of a military organization within a county sheriff's department, especially in Maricopa County AZ?

From: Maricopa County, AZ

Established: Feb 14, 1871

Population: apprx 3,200,000

Budget: $2.5 Billion (02-03)

Size: 9,226 square miles

4th most populous county in US

14th largest county in the US​

Apparently from the demographics of Maricopa County, the Sheriff was able to convince the board of supervisors that there were enough demands for SWAT services to justify the funding of a fulltime SWAT team.

I am not aware of how Sheriff Arpaio uses his SWAT team, but I suspect if he is like other departments I am familiar with, he uses them also as trainers for the rest of his department.

Now, back to the original question. If the fourth most populous county in the U.S. and the 14th. largest county geographically doesn't deserve a SWAT team, just who does?

Pilgrim
 
Jesus christ on a pogo stick in a mine field on a dark foggy night. The question wasn't does he need one, the question is why is he disbanding a trained unit to be replaced by new untrained personnel. :cuss:
 
I stand corrected. A county with 3,200,000 people can justify the existence of a SWAT team. :)
 
The question wasn't does he need one, the question is why is he disbanding a trained unit to be replaced by new untrained personnel.
Maybe he doesn't trust the existing team, and wants to replace them. Why does he have to justify it?

Nevermind. Here's your answer, in the first paragraph:
The Maricopa County sheriff’s SWAT team was abruptly disbanded shortly after two of its officers were shot serving a high-risk search warrant in a murder investigation, the Tribune has learned.

They're incompetent. The Sheriff expects them to be able to serve warrants without getting killed. That's reasonable.
 
Police need to find alternative ways of arresting criminals rather than relying on brute force and no knock dynamic entry.

I agree. Here are some suggestions for persuading criminals to give up:

- a box of chocolates
- tickets to the ballet
- signed copy of a Dr. Phil book
- free oil changes for life
- "Get ouf Jail Free" card
- A simple "I Love You"
 
Am I the only person here who thinks that mustering the militia for exceptional situations would be better than having a permanent SWAT team? What good did SWAT do during the LA riots? The only thing that had the slightest effect on the rioters was when the Koreatown militia mustered itself.

I'm being quite serious. You dont need special equipment or vehicles or training to catch baricaded crazies. You just wait them out. I could understand if you only had 1 cop and there were 2 exits to the building, but thats not exactly the situation we have here.
 
Awww......that would take all the fun out of kicking in doors. And they wouldn't get to play with all the EBR's and other fun toys. :p
 
Actually I had a crazy idea. If I wanted to catch a violent crazy person who was beleived to be inside a certain house, why not just wait outside for him to get food or something? He will be a lot easier to catch if he is just walking around in public. Isnt this what police used to do? Why is it seen as such a great benefit to catch someone without having to wait?

Even with SWAT weapons/training, I think it is stupid to engage in these frontal assaults on people who are both expecting and prepared for violence.
 
RileyMc , was your comment about the cops being incompetent because they were shot tongue in cheek?

If it was not, I humbly submit my opinion that you are an idiot. It was a high risk warrent. Sh*t happens. That does not make the team incompetent.

Again, if you said that in jest, please ignore this.
 
Actually, the word in the media here is that the Maricopa S.O. SWAT Team is one of the best and most highly respected in the US. The are often used as an organizational and training model, as well as being called on to train other SWAT teams.

Which makes all of this doubly confusing.

It appears to be fueled by Sherrif Joe having some political axe to grind with some of the senior members of the team.

All I know is that Sherrif Joe is certifiably insane, a complete and total whack-job, whose only real talent happens to coincide with his only real interest--self promotion. There is often no rational reason for the things he does.
 
"I think it is stupid to engage in these frontal assaults on people who are both expecting and prepared for violence."

You of course are making the assumption that this person is just sitting in a building by himself. You are convieniently leaving out the people who have hostages, or are actively shooting, or are walking down the street shooting etc. You also have no problem paying police officers to sit there possibly for days waiting for the guy to come out "for food". You also assume that when he does come out "for food" that he will be totally docile and not put up any resistance just because he is outside the building and not inside it.
 
Hmm...

Political shakeup, I think.

Do we need SWAT? I think so. I also think that SWAT duty shouldn't be a career path (IE constant rotation in and out). That way your duty officers are qualified too, and you avoid some of the militarization of SWAT.

What should SWAT be used for? Hostage situations are one. I guess the proper usage is in situations where you have to face a determined defense, with the prospect of further harm to innocents if the situation isn't resolved quickly.

If I'm in my booby-trapped, reinforced, armoured, filtered ventilation dream home out in the boondocks stocked with plenty of weapons, ammo, food and water, but in there alone, it's not really worth it to try to have SWAT breach. It'd be better to call me up on the phone and talk me out.

A group of jihadies holding a dozen prisoners and talking about chopping heads off? Breach.

Somebody going nuts and shooting people in a school? Go in with every officer as they can get there. In this case SWAT would be like a ready reserve.
 
beerslurpy wrote:

Am I the only person here who thinks that mustering the militia for exceptional situations would be better than having a permanent SWAT team? What good did SWAT do during the LA riots? The only thing that had the slightest effect on the rioters was when the Koreatown militia mustered itself.

I'm being quite serious. You dont need special equipment or vehicles or training to catch baricaded crazies. You just wait them out. I could understand if you only had 1 cop and there were 2 exits to the building, but thats not exactly the situation we have here.

Yeah. If I'm ever being held hostage by some lunatic(s), it will be real comforting to know that there are a few dozen armed citizens outside standing around yakking, without any sort of training which could help me. I'm sure the hostage taker(s) will come out peacefully after a day or two and after they've shot me in the head. :rolleyes:
 
I really hate to hear about this. I trained with several of those mentioned in the article, including Babb and Frakes, back in the day when I was active LEO. Maricopa's TOU (Tactical Operation Unit) was far and away one of the most professional bunch of guys I ever had the pleasure of being around.

Denny
 
The movie "Thelma and Louise" comes to mind.

The one sane cop in the movie kept telling all the other cops that they were innocent or not to shoot or to cool it or whatever, but no, all those EBRs and radios and spirit of the hunt.

Kinda like, if they don't surrender or go out in a blaze of glory then the fuzz loses face.

I don't know anything about it, since I am just a lowly citizen, but from the perception which I get from the managed media (we all know that perception is reality) most of these swat situations turn out to be suicide by cop.

Then you got yer Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Furtherly, the "Police Academy" movies don't help.

What ever happened to Andy Taylor? :confused:
 
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