OK what is the story here.

[LiquidTension]

beerslurpy - extended surveillance is quite expensive, both in monetary measurement and manpower. It's part of my job, trust me. While I'd love for all of these situations to just be waited out, the reality is that the resources just aren't there to set up and wait. The situation only gets worse if the bad guys know or think that you're out there waiting on them...then they just dig themselves in more - look at Waco and Ruby Ridge. Sometimes it is more efficient to barge in and finish it than it is to wait them out. Of course, hostages and innocents add a whole different dimension to the decision making process...thankfully I don't deal with that type of situation.

 

[R.H. Lee]

The situation only gets worse if the bad guys know or think that you're out there waiting on them...then they just dig themselves in more - look at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Those are not good examples, LT, since both were singularly escalated by law enforcement. Both David Koresh and Randy Weaver could have been arrested without incident many many times before the JBT's crashed in and killed innocents.

Don't get me started.

 

[LiquidTension]

I'm not arguing that those incidents were not the fault of LE. They were just two well-known examples that supported my assertion that knowing that LE was outside altered the circumstances. Don't get ME started on those incidents...I had to cut a paper short at 15 pages last semester that dealt mainly with Waco and how the feds screwed up hard core. Yes, Koresh could have been arrested before. Yes, the feds could have told the truth, therefore not having the TNG helicopter gunships. Yes, they could have not lied about the other various crap to garner public support. Yes, the FBI could have let Randy Weaver's son go back to the cabin instead of shooting him in the back after killing the dog. Blah blah blah...that's not my point. Point is, sometimes dynamic entry coupled with surprise is better than waiting it out.

I do NOT like JBT's or their tactics in general, but even I will admit that they have their place. Just like gun-grabbers...they serve their purpose - even if it is just to show how ridiculous their side is.

 

[beerslurpy]

My point is that generally even the most insane of bad guys has regular habits like places he shops and so on. Rather than informing him that you are there to arrest him when he comes out, get him in the open where he has no cover, etc. The element of surprise and all. I realize that I am being idealistic about this and that I am only going to be mustering the militia if it is made of monkeys that just flew out my butt. The public would rather feel that there are professinal hostage rescuers coming for them than just some random guy who is a good shot but not a police officer.

As for citizens rescusing hostages, why would my bullets be less capable than the average swat sniper? I can shoot half inch groups pretty consistently with my bolt gun. That would be more than enough for any hostage situation. Overpenetration maybe, but 7mm soft tips at 3200 fps arent exactly steel core AK rounds in terms of penetration.