“I would be curious to know how you set your sizing die? BW”
BW,
http://www.z-hat.com/Cylinder.htm
Cylinder brass is 2.650 long from the head of the case to the mouth of the case and has a straight wall, the perfect case for forming cases for wildcat chambers, for two reason, no shoulder and when forming, the case body does not expand, it is up the the reloader/case former to form the shoulder to fit the chamber from the face of the bolt to the shoulder of the chamber as opposed to starting with a case that is too short from the head of the case to it’s shoulder. Starting with a case that is short requires the reloader to fire to form as opposed to form first then fire.
Fire forming mistakes are made, most could be considered ‘a bad habit’ there is forgiveness in the action design, again, I have fired 8mm57 ammo in an 8mm06 chamber, by any standard the 8mm57 should have come apart with something called insipient/case head separation on the first firing, the case can not stretch .127 thousands, if the case stretches, it didn’t, if shortened, it formed to the chamber, the case shoulder did not move, it was erased, flattened and became part of the case body, part of the neck became part of the shoulder, when ejected, the 8m57 was ejected as a 8mm06 with a very short neck, the case, when fired formed to the chamber.
Cases, when fire formed, that do not shorten stretch between the case head and case body, the neck, shoulder, case body attached to the case head move forward (depending on the action design), when fired the case (moves forward when fired in some actions) body locks onto the chamber body, leaving the case head unsupported against the bolt face, the unsupported case head moves back until it contacts the bolt face, the case must stretch to allow the case head to move back when the case is locked onto the chamber. The ability of the case to stretch between the case head and case body determines when and if the case head separates.
Extractors are not alike on different actions designs. ‘The Claw’ design on Mausers are identified with control feed rifles, the claw does not jump the rim when the case is feed, the case come up from the bottom and under and behind the extractor. Another design is called push feed, on the push feed the extractor jumps the case extractor rim, because of function and design the push feed extractor is smaller than ‘the claw’. Meaning? Do not attempt or depend on the push feed extractor to head space the case as in the extractor on a push feed will not allow a case to head space on it. The larger claw extractor of the Mauser design has allowed the case to head space on the claw because it is not designed to jump the rim as in push feed designs.
Before cylinder brass the case former used different methods and techniques to fit the case between the bolt face and and shoulder of the chamber, the 30/06 case has a shoulder that is ahead of the 308 W, 7.7 Japanese, 8mm57, 7mm57, 257 Roberts, 243 W etc., When using 30/06 cases for shorter chambers the reloader/case former knew when to quit forming the shoulder, again, the shoulder does not move when forming, it is erased and becomes another part of the case.
The 280 Remington case has a case body that is .051 thousandths longer than the 30/06 case body length, point? I had rather form cases, as in moving the shoulder back? than fire the case to move the shoulder forward? (again, not all actions are alike, when forming and head spacing the action design is always omitted, and that is the reason two rifles with the same chamber, when fired can have different results.
Again, I understand the chambers were never 25/06 chambers, I understand the chambers have always been 25/06 Ackley Improved chambers, understand, that is no excuse for not knowing the length of the chamber before firing.
How do I set my press up to size a case? The rifle has a chamber, the die has a chamber with reduced dimensions, the limit of the dies ability to size/reduce dimensions is fixed/pre-determined when used with a shell holder with a deck height of .125. With a die in a press with a shell holder the limit to sizing is minimum length/full length sizing, when determining chamber length I start with a case that is too long for the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber, I start with adjusting the die off the shell holder with a gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder, I adjust the gap between the die and shell holder with a feeler gage, after sizing I attempt chambering the case, if it does not chamber, I reduce the gap, and try again and continue the process until the case chambers, in a practice sense I am using the gap to avoid sizing (preventing the die, shell holder and press from sizing the case to minimum length/full length sizing). This method/technique should not be used with cases that have been fired 3 + times. I use new cases, nothing like cases behaving in a predictable manner, then there is annealing.
There are tools available, Redding sells shell holders in sets of 5 for $40.00+, the feeler gage is a standard, it is a transfer, when determining the length of a chamber from bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber with a few new/or annealed cases thrown in a reloader can not get more millage from their money,
Again, I form cases for short chambers starting with cases that are .017 thousandths shorter than go-gage length to a practice .016 thousandths longer than minimum length with a feeler gage and versatile full length sizer die.
There is no excuse for making wild guestimates when adjusting the die to the shell holder. ’Why start over every day?’ To eliminate guessing, I adjust the die to the shell holder every time I change dies, I do not secure the locking ring to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring, Dillon does not have set screws on their lock rings, Lee does not use set screws on their lock rings.
F. Guffey