opportunity to buy "new" H/K P7M13

[Telekinesis]

I believe there was a European heel release version of the P7M8. See this archived THR thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-345387.html

hmm, that looks pretty interesting. I've never seen one of these guns mentioned anywhere other than that thread though. I guess the only way to be sure would be to get some pics from the OP. Now I guess the big question revolves around frame markings and heat shields.

 

[PabloJ]

$2,500 seems pretty darn steep to me.

For $2500 one can get brand new SIG-210 made in Germany. That is currently made firearm for which parts are readily available.

 

[Sig_Dude]

Gentlemen,

Here is what is on my gun. I am posting the serial number somewhat reluctantly to help identify it. God forbid the damn thing turns out to be listed as stolen, please PM me and I will contact the police *immediately*. I bought it from a very reputable gun store yesterday:

s/n: 70407 (in an oval: "Nds") "7/86" [insignia] "DE"

HKI - Columbus GA

Does this tell you anything? Was my gun made in July of 1986?

 

[PabloJ]

DE is likely original proof date code while 7/86 appears to be refinish/refit date.

 

[usp9]

Does this tell you anything? Was my gun made in July of 1986?

DE is a required mark meaning it was from Germany. All guns from Germany are now required to be stamped, as of about 2008 or so.

Yes, the manufacture date is July, '86.

Nds means a Saxony police agency gun.

The insignia is a proof mark.

That's the good news. The bad news is that you bought a Saxony police trade-in PSP. As already mentioned these sold from the $400s for low end used, to a high of about $800 for some really pristine guns. Sorry, but you paid a very high premium for your pistol. It would have been a good deal for a M8, but it's a poor deal on a PSP.

There is a huge amount of information on these guns in the archives. Use the search function.

Enjoy it anyway... great gun.

 

[PX15]

FWIW:

I'm in agreement with the folks who believe you actually bought a surplus (imported) Lower Saxony Police HK P7.

Having said that, I'll agree that $1000.00 is a couple of hundred bucks too much (in the present HK P7 market), even if it were an "A" grade (I'm guessing the label on the box should tell you the grade, unless it had been removed previously by someone before it was put in the glass case for sale ), but if the pistol shoots to your satisfaction and you are happy with it, just shoot and enjoy the sucker.

Two hundred bucks either way is not going to make you or break you, and you have bought what is, in my opinion, one of the finest 9MM pistols ever manufactured...

I bought three ("A" grade) HK P7 from CDNN three years ago when they first hit the American market.. All three were beautiful, functioned and fired perfectly, and were extremely accurate, per their reputation...

Just shoot and enjoy..

Best Wishes,

Jesse

P.S. FWIW, I'm thinking your "whatever" was imported with the past two years or so, as the H&K import facility moved from Trussville, Al. to Columbus, Ga. some time after I bought my three.

 

[Guns and more]

I watch Gunbroker all the time, and I check the P-7 since it's one of the niche guns I want.
But I don't see where one is worth $2500. And yes, they are on Gunbroker for $2300.
I don't see that much difference between a P-7 M-8, and a P-7 M-13 to justify the more than double cost.

 

[Telekinesis]

s/n: 70407 (in an oval: "Nds") "7/86" [insignia] "DE"

HKI - Columbus GA

That s/n puts you pretty well within the manufacture date of PSPs. Also, I believe there would be a pretty clear "M8" on the frame above the trigger guard with the other s/n info.

Here's a list with serial number information.

I don't see that much difference between a P-7 M-8, and a P-7 M-13 to justify the more than double cost.

There's not much difference other than a lot of people would prefer their 9mm pistols to be double stack. Especially combat pistols which is what the P7 was really designed to be. Also, the M8 had an extra 10 years of legal production/sales in the US over the M13 meaning more are in circulation, lowering the price.

 

[Sig_Dude]

Thanks for the help guys. So what I bought is NOT a P7M8 but rather a P7 PSP? What does "PSP" stand for?

questions:

1. Could purchase and install a heat shield?
2. Could I convert this PSP to an American style mag release?

Thanks.

By the way, what stuff to people usually do to these guns, I was thinking about having it NP3'd.

 

[Telekinesis]

PSP is the German designation which roughly translates to Police Service Pistol (nice how the acronym still woks, huh?)

I don't think the heat shield is a widely sought after add on, but that doesn't mean you can't find some gunsmith to make you one (it would have to be either custom or salvaged from a wrecked M8 though). Really I don't think it's worth it to try to have one added on. It doesn't really get too hot until you start shooting several mags in rapid succession. Then you can just put on some baseball gloves and keep going. I believe the trigger guard was larger on the M8 to accommodate gloves (though I'm not positive about this) so even if you found a heat shield, it might not fit.

I don't think there is any way to convert the gun to use an American style mag release. Again, I've heard of some gunsmiths coming up with crazy stuff, but I wouldn't worry about it. The heel release is pretty serviceable in and of itself, and the cutting and work that would be required to get a mag release under the trigger guard would probably kill any resale value you might get out of it. (Not to mention you'd need all new mags which get pretty expensive, especially if you've already got a set of the other type!)

Lastly, if the finish is in good condition I would just leave it, but I'm more of a traditionalist in that regard. P7s do have a tendency to rust if not cared for though, so maybe an aftermarket finish is in order. Just please don't get some OD green or tan finish on it. I saw some of those at my local store and almost cried at the sight of what some guy did to such a beautiful pistol...

 

[usp9]

That s/n puts you pretty near the end of the manufacture date of PSPs...

PSPs were manufactured until 1996. Curiously only the first few hundred and last few hundred were actually marked "PSP", but all the European style mag release P7s are refered to as PSPs, if only to differentiate them from the M8, M10, M13, etc.

The M8 heat shield will not fit on a PSP.

Could I convert this PSP to an American style mag release?

No. Buy a M8 if you really want the standard mag release. Many people who carry the P7 prefer the PSP because of the mag release. Mag changes are still fast enough.

 

[Telekinesis]

PSPs were manufactured until 1996

You're right. I was just going off of that website I linked and didn't even think that those were only member's guns, not an all inclusive list.

Edited above.

 

[Sig_Dude]

I am kinda bummed that I did not get an actual M8 for the $1,000 I paid. A little ticked at my local gun store...I am one of their best customers too, no lie. I think I might talk to them about this.

But the thing is though, I love the gun. Sure, it may be a "lowly PSP", but its just so cool. I am going to call Robar today and set up NP3 coating on it. I really wish that if it's going to take Robar 3 months to get to the job, they would just let me ship it to them in 3 months and not hold onto it the entire time.

 

[rellascout]

Take the gun back and get your money back. You got ripped off IMHO. They advertised a M8 and you should have gotten one. You certainly paid an M8 price.

There were tons of these guns. P7 PSPs, selling from as low as $599 up to $800. The $800 guns were already refinished in NP3 by Robar.

If you are truly one of thier best customers they should make this right.

 

[gbelleh]

If they advertised it as an M8, you should get about $300 back.

But...you also probably should've done a little more research before spending $1,000 on an unfamiliar pistol.

The PSP is a great gun, and you should enjoy it no matter what.

 

[Sig_Dude]

Gbelleh, I agree, 100%. Should have done my homework.