Optics for Moonlighting Hogs

[Cypress]

As most of you know we are overrun with hogs here in Texas. Our place is no different and I spend many hours taking out as many as possible. I am always trying to find better tactics and better gear to bag as many as possible. I know trapping may be more effective but its not nearly as fun. I have found that the best method here is to hunt under good moonlight without the use of artificial light at all. This started me looking for the best optics for this purpose. Starting years ago I read all I could on optics design and checked forums to see what was best in low light but never found the perfect thread to address my needs. I wanted a comparison of as many different scopes as possible with the scopes checked side by side at night, not dusky dark or early morning but strictly by moonlight. This makes a lot of difference because your eyes work quite differently at night. At least mine do. So here is my thread. This will hopefully be informative for other hunters and may also help me upgrade my equipment. I ask everyone that is interested to go out on a moonlit night with as many scopes as possible then rank them in order of best to worst. Please also note if your reticle is visible or not. I don't use lighted reticles as they tend to drown out the targets. Heres my ranking of optics that I have used from best to worst.

1.Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10X40 Firefly reticle....Nice thick reticle can be seen without charging, have been able to shoot out to 200+ yds with good moon.
2.Bushnell Elite 3200 3-9X40 Multi-X reticle.....adequate but reticle is pretty thin and fades when moon is not bright.
3.Bushnell Trophy 6-18X40 multi X reticle..... not quite as bright as the 3200 but the reticle is thicker (older model I think)
4.Vortex Crossfire 6-24X50 Mil-Dot reticle.....about the same brightness as
the Trophy but reticle is slightly less visible.
5.Bushnell Banner 6-18x50 multi X reticle.....about the same brightness as the Trophy but reticle is too thin.
6.Millet DMS 1-4X24.....was barely adequate with full moon at 50 yds.
7.Simmons 8point 3-9X50...........forget about it!

3,4,and 5 are all about the same brightness and are as low end as I would go if attempting to night hunt.

As you can see I do not own a lot of high end optics and probably never will but have found some effective tools for fair prices. Lets hear what you guys have and how it ranks. Hope this helps someone!

 

[Ole Humpback]

My $10 4x pellet rifle scope is actually fairly decent at light gathering on a full moon night. Just need the white of the moon to shine on the target so you can see the crosshairs, otherwise no dice. My Simmons Atec without the sunshade is OK, but the optic wasn't designed with low light in mind.

I'll be honest, unless you spend mucho $$$ on a true night optic, you can have the finest light gathering portable telescope on earth at your disposal, and it ain't worth two craps for targeting. A great example of this comes from my college field engineering days.

I was doing a bridge survey with a LEICA TPS System 1200 RTS. The telescope itself is a 50x optic with infinitely adjustable parallax & target focus and the gun was developed to have superior light gathering optics, and it does. There were two mercury lights on either end of the bridge (about 500' between the lights) and I could actually see my targets, but at 7:30 at night in the middle of December with full cloud cover, the best I was getting was varying shades of black & grey. Enough to see where things were, but not enough light for me to make out the crosshairs on the gun or EDM on the gun get a strong enough return.

Bear in mind, I had enough light to walk around just fine (people accuse me of having night vision though), but not enough for the $70000 telescope on the gun to get contrast on the crosshairs or signal for the EDM to work.

 

[Cypress]

Hmmm....I hoped that I would get more interest than this. Everyone must be waiting for the next full moon. 8) Should be in about 2 weeks!

 

[MCgunner]

I have a lighted reticule off brand scope that has been rather amazing. It's Chinese, bought it at a tool sale for 50 bucks, figured it'd crap out on me, but never has. I mostly had it on a SKS for night hunting, but have it on my CVA Wolf now. Now, if I had unlimited money and my druthers, I'd have a high end night vision scope. But, hey, I ain't got the money to spend and I ain't a night person at any rate. Now days, wanna be home with Mama after dark.

 

[retrieverman]

If you use "quality" illuminated reticle scopes, they dim down enough not to drown out your target. I have three Leupold 1.5-5 with illum reticles, and one is dimmer than the other two. For moon light hunting, I use a Swarovski Z6i 1.7-10 and an older Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10, and they have worked great. The illumination turns down to just a faint glow.

 

[Flintknapper]

Retrieverman wrote:

If you use "quality" illuminated reticle scopes, they dim down enough not to drown out your target. I have three Leupold 1.5-5 with illum reticles, and one is dimmer than the other two. For moon light hunting, I use a Swarovski Z6i 1.7-10 and an older Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10, and they have worked great. The illumination turns down to just a faint glow.

Agreed! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The scope on my AR has 11 levels of intensity for the illuminated reticle (a center dot, not the entire reticle). It is easy to find a level suitable for the needs of the moment.

The scope on my Daughter’s 7mm-08 has 5 intensity levels, but lets you choose between a Red or Green illuminated dot, the difference is significant.

Even on nights with a full moon….I almost always use the illuminated feature, when adjusted to the conditions at hand….it allows for a quick and positive point of aim on the animal.

But the OP’s objection to brightly lit reticles is a valid one IMO, in that it attracts the eye (too much) toward the reticle itself… and less on the “target”. In extreme cases…it can obscure or “wash out” the image altogether, so pick your scope/reticle wisely.


Cypress wrote:

Hmmm....I hoped that I would get more interest than this. Everyone must be waiting for the next full moon.

I don’t think that is the “hold up”.

Most of the shooting/hunting populations are not nocturnal Hog/Varmint hunters….so you have a limited pool from which to query. Then… consider that most of us will not have a line-up of duty specific optics from which to compare….and you quickly come up with a limited number of responses.

I have quite a bit of night-time hunting experience (both with and without a moon)…and can offer some generalities that might be helpful, but they are my subjective opinion only.

I have already stated my opinion and experience concerning lighted reticles….and I concur with Retrieverman.

Moving beyond illuminated reticles, most people will find that under low light conditions a scope with a coarse reticle (I.E. Duplex) will be of some aid. It’s simply easier to see…especially if the animal is dark colored or the background color is dark.

When talking about “Moonlight” hunting ….you must remember this can run the gamut of visibility!

I have hunted on nights where I could literally read a book by the light of a Full Moon. Conversely, there are times when the moon is less than full, just rising, setting, or casting shadows due to the terrain. It can remain a challenge to see your target under those conditions.

A few things that will help are as follows:

1. Use a quality scope! Something that has “good” glass and is FULLY MULTI-COATED. Good quality glass and coatings will gather as much light as is possible for that optic.

2. If your scope is variable power, use the lowest setting available (appropriate for the circumstance). This will allow for the greatest amount of light transfer to your eye.

3. All things being equal (good glass & coatings) a scope with a larger front objective (I.E. 50mm vs. 42mm) will have more light gathering capability. BUT….don’t choose a larger objective over GLASS QUALITY when choosing a scope, the latter is much more important IMO.


One last comment:

I am far from being an “Optics Snob”…and I recognize that most folks are on a budget when it comes to purchasing firearms and accessories. Nothing wrong with that, but do your homework before buying a scope.

If there is one area I could point to where folks waste their money…or end up dissatisfied, it would be optics for their weapon.

 

[retrieverman]

If there is one area I could point to where folks waste their money…or end up dissatisfied, it would be optics for their weapon.

AMEN!!!

 

[tx_pistolero]

I've gotten to where I am just using tritium night sights. None of the lighted reticle sights/red dots I have used (low-end to mid-range) get dim enough for pure dark shooting. They put out so much light it makes it impossible to see right. Thinking of taking the plunge on a Trijicon ACOG as soon as a I can. I have used a PVS-14 that my buddy has with my EOTEC clone, and that will spoil you. Unfortunately, I don't have 4 grand laying just laying around doing nothing. If I did, I would get one and not look back. It's like daylight.

 

[CCCP]

May I suggest to try night vision riflescope? In my humble opinion even a 1 gen night vision scope is better for hogs than regular riflescope. Something like this
http://swfa.com/Yukon-15x42-Mini-Varmint-Hunter-Night-Vision-Rifle-Scope-P40211.aspx

 

[Cypress]

I have looked through a Gen 1 monocular(don't recall the brand) and I could see pretty well out to 30-50 yds but further than that my Elite 4200 was better. I guess that's why I've stuck with standard optics. 200 yd shots are everywhere here and if there are a lot of pigs, its very difficult to close the gap in open pasture. I agree with all the comments listed so far and the idea that glass quality is more important than objective size seems to be very true but is an often misunderstood concept. Many guys blow their money on a huge lens and end up disappointed. My 4200 is insanely bright for what I paid for it!

 

[Flintknapper]

Cypress,

Your 4200 was made by “L.O.W.” (Light Optical Works) in Japan…to specification.

They are the premiere manufacturer of scopes in that country and some of the best glass available (apart from European made) comes from that factory.

Your 4200 is pretty much a clone of my Weaver Classic Extreme (made at the same place).

It is only 1.5 X 4.5 X 24mm with a 30mm tube, but it is brighter than a lot of other scopes with much larger front objectives.




Obviously, this pic…is not at night (under moonlight) but IS at dusk/twilight and you can see how much it aids the naked eye.

The scope is on 4 power in this pic and the image is at 100 yds. This is what good glass will do for you (read…efficiently transfer light while maintaining a sharp image).

 

[zeos]

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=30054

 

[tx_pistolero]

I also agree with the quality of the glass issue. I have noticed some of the lower/mid range stuff actually is DARKER looking through than with the naked eye. Even red dots.

 

[Cypress]

Something I thought about tonight while stalking through the fields and glassing was how much brighter my cheap binoculars are than my expensive scope. My binos are $75 Nikons and are much much brighter than my Elite 4200. I always thought it was because you had twice as much objective and using both eyes but looking through one side it is still very bright. Why is this? Fewer lenses I would assume. Anybody know for sure?

 

[husker]

I hunt Coyotes at night when their is moon, & fresh snow on the ground. I have 2 old Simmons Aetech 2.8-10x44 for this purpose. Both work very well. Both were made in the Philippines NOT JAPAN

I have a 3rd Phili made Aetech, I just bought off of the THR. It has the bat & lights up. Looking forward to this winter to see how it works.

PS I would like to know where the OPs Simmons was made. Philippines or Japan?

 

[Cypress]

husker,

Couldn't locate any info on the Simmons scope but I'm thinking China.

 

[Japle]

I have an illuminated reticle 1.5-6X Nighteater on my .358 Norma Mag. I’ll be taking it out for hogs next Wednesday, so I’ll see how well I can see.

 

[Sky]

I have been using the ATN 350 gen 1 night scope. Bullet proof and can see a black pig at 125 yards w/o the IR on most nights. Cost less than $400 from Optics Planet....I have scopes and red dots that I pop pigs with but if I am hunting after sunset it is a no brainer...grab the night scope.

There are some threads about night vision

 

[Cypress]

Just a reminder for anyone wanting to rank their scopes to help out. Moon is perfect. Two hogs already tonight!!!