Other weapons used in Iraq?

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Atticus

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BS or truth on Napalm and Phos?

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article325757.ece

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article327094.ece


US criticised for use of phosphorous in Fallujah raids
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
Published: 09 November 2005
A leading campaign group has demanded an urgent inquiry into a report that US troops indiscriminately used a controversial incendiary weapon during the battle for Fallujah. Photographic evidence gathered from the aftermath of the battle suggests that women and children were killed by horrific burns caused by the white phosphorus shells dropped by US forces.
The Pentagon has always admitted it used phosphorus during last year's assault on the city, which US commanders said was an insurgent stronghold. But they claimed they used the brightly burning shells "very sparingly" and only to illuminate combat areas.
But the documentary Fallujah: the Hidden Massacre, broadcast yesterday by the Italian state broadcaster, RAI, suggested the shells were commonly used and killed an unspecified number of civilians. Photographs obtained by RAI from the Studies Centre of Human Rights in Fallujah, show the bodies of dozens of Fallujah residents whose skin has been dissolved or caramelised by the effects of the phosphorus shells. The use of incendiary weapons against civilian targets is banned by treaty.
Last night Robert Musil, director of the group Physicians for Social Responsibility, called for an investigation. He told The Independent: "When there is clear testimony that use of such weapons has done this, it demands a full investigation. From Vietnam onwards there has been a general condemnation of [the use of white phosphorus] and concern about the injuries and consequences."
The 1980 UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons bans the use of weapons such as napalm and white phosphorus against civilian - but not military - targets. The US did not sign the treaty and has continued to use white phosphorus and an updated version of napalm, called Mark 77 firebombs, which use kerosene rather than petrol. A senior US commander previously has confirmed that 510lb napalm bombs had been used in Iraq and said that "the generals love napalm. It has a big psychological effect."
John Pike, director of the Washington-based military studies group GlobalSecurity.Org, said the smoke caused by the bombs could confuse or blind the enemy or mark a target. "If it hits your clothes it will burn your clothes and if it hits your skin it will just keep on burning," he said.
Experts said that, if not removed, white phosphorus - known as Willy Pete - can burn to the bone. The fumes from phosphorus cause severe eye irritation.
 
WP is a standard item in the US arsenal. This should be about as controversial as the revelation that the British police are using evil hollowpoint ammo.
 
This should be about as controversial as the revelation that the British police are using evil hollowpoint ammo.

Both are controversial when those killed by them are non combatants.
 
This is a media scare story of the worst kind; for instance, watching BBC News yesterday you would have thought normal artillery rounds picked up the insurgents, tucked them safely in their beds and read a bedtime story to them after they went off, compared to evil old WP and its nasty burns and smoke. You really wonder what people are being taught on journalism training nowadays.
 
Atticus said:
Both are controversial when those killed by them are non combatants.

So it's not controversial to kill civillians with shrapnel and FMJ's but it is controversial if done by WP and HP's?

This is just an excuse to critisize the U.S. from another angle. If they want to critisize anything it should be the war in general. Saying there's something insidious about WP is just stupid.
 
I agree. I just question the wisdom of using it in an urban area. I just lost an argument with my leftist co-worker over it's use in Falluja.
 
Urban areas or caves are where WP is ideal. (and grenades in general)

We did everything we could to get civilians out of the area before we went in. That we went in on foot instead of levelling the place shows the care we took to avoid hurting noncombatants.

If I have a choice of clearing a room on foot or clearing via grenade, I choose grenades.
 
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