Pirate defence of small ship

[nfl1990]

What you're suggesting is illegal.

Didn't relize that. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Well, we had a former Navy SEAL with extensive sailing experience chime in on the third page of this thread. Personally, I'd probably listen real close to that advice; but those of you who wish to weld .50s to the deck and "go to war" should also chip in for an Iridium datalink so you can post how that works out for you.

 

[rbernie]

Most customs people will look at you funny if you have too many flares for your flare gun, what do you think their reaction to heavy arms will be?

I was wondering how useful a brace of flareguns would be as a CQB use-it-and-drop-it solution....

 

[AndrewM]

I was wondering how useful a brace of flareguns would be as a CQB use-it-and-drop-it solution....

Painful, but I doubt it's a 'stopper'. In my experience in sailing around various places of the world you're still best off with a shotgun. You'll have the least amount of problems with it when you go through customs, they'll likely take it and won't give it back to you until you leave the country (but some countries will do that with flare guns), but anything that would be labeled as an 'assault' type weapon is going to be looked at very hard and will likely get you a nice long search of your boat. Automatic weapons and the like will get you landed in jail very quickly, even before you start engaging people a mile out.

Andrew

 

[c_yeager]

I was wondering how useful a brace of flareguns would be as a CQB use-it-and-drop-it solution....

An interesting notion. I suppose that one could cut down a single barrel shotgun to miniscule "flare gun" size, paint it white, and noone would know the difference, and you could fire actual 12 guage shells (good lord i wouldnt want to though). Its an NFA item in the states, but if you performed the surgery outside the national limit and dumped it prior to return i dont think your actually breaking any laws. Pretty limited utility though, and you still have to worry about passing off the item and any shells that you happen to have.

 

[JamisJockey]

Didn't relize that. Thanks for the advice.

Affirmative. Be real careful with what you suggest regarding full auto firearms.

 

[JamisJockey]

Sorry for my nasty remarks earlier. I wasn't pleased with where the recommendations were going.

My closing thoughts:
First and foremost, one's best defense is going to be alertness. Don't allow yourself to be sucked into a trap, don't allow other small vessels to get too close. This should be accomplished through speed and maneuverability. E&E anyone that seems a bit relentless. From some of the stories I've read on the 'net and in some pleasure boating rags, traveling in groups is a good idea (mandatory in some waters).
If you get caught, your going to be trying keep your boat from being boarded. It may be bucking wildly depending on the sea conditions and what evasive actions you may have tried. A Pump shotgun seems to be ideal for this task. They are generally rugged, easy to operate and fire under stress, and pack a wollup. A personal sidearm might be your last ditch effort and not being turned into fish-food.
Know the rules, laws and expectations of the ports and waters you may tranist. Also knowing where friendly waters are would be a very big plus incase you need real help.
Know the threat level for whatever waters you might transit.
Schemes, wild ideas, and speculation might get you tossed in an unfriendly prison.
I think I'll stick to US waters, maybe the gulf or gulfstream. You real sailors can keep your pirate infested third world countries.

 

[pete f]

I have a far amount of blue water experience, and have friends who live on blue water, or so it seems. First it is very rare for pirates to do anything in the daylight. Almost all of the attacks i have seen documentation of occur at night. All but very few, (2% maybe) are small boats, 21 to 30 footers with minimal structural integrity. Most attacks are on anchored ships or boats. Very few are chase downs. Slocum did have a good idea of using tacks on deck, one friend has a small terrier that has twice alerted him to small boats trying to close within boarding distance. BlueWater boats do not stay at sea, they go from port to port and in Every port, they get inspected. Every time you get inspected, you have the risk of having a snooping customs inspector busting you on an undeclared firearm. I know one sailer who has flashbangs and cs grenades labeled as Smoke markers. I worked on one boat for a bit that had false panel that contained several shotguns. As far as not being able to hit things, I have found it fairly easy to hit floating popbottles with my 22 when out sailing, (currently a 27 foot LM) At the distances faced in repelling borders, I think hits would be easy.
I know of one instance where old fashioned molotov cocktails and flaming rags tied around some heavy items got the pirates/thugs thinking about other things long enough for the good guys to get free. I think in a perfect world, a m 79 bloop gun with hedp and flechete would be great, but how does one factor that to the real world.

 

[roscoe]

Just in case this is not just a fantasy thread, I have often thought that the Mossberg Line Launcher might not get you into trouble. You would want to have a regular barrel and shells concealed somewhere nearby, or somehow obscure the fact that you have a regular barrel on the thing.

 

[JMusic]

Though I don't spend much time on the ocean I have spent musch time on the great lakes. After 911 with all the coast guard activity my friends and I started to discuss this. First bright lights are a must for I agree night is when this will happen. We also concluded we would be better to engage at distance if possible but engage the boats themselves. Knowing how difficult it is to shoot out of a boat we wondered what angle could we expect richochets to come of the water. We tried this on a local lake with an sks with 1-2 foot waves. angles were in the 10-20 degree range. So with this in mind this would be my recomendation.

M1a1 in 308 to attack boat

12 guage multi shot with flares, double OO and slugs

High capacity pistol perferably in 40 caliber.

WE had a powered boat and shooting from the stern under power was fairly steady.
Jim

 

[abaddon]

Somalia's getting a lot of attention now because of the recent news, but the Strait of Malacca is supposed to be worse. Half the world's shipping goes through that gap between Indonesia and Malaysia. If you're planning on going around the world you can go around, but that's a lot of extra miles.

I read an article in Foreign Affairs a while back that said Al Qaeda was getting into the piracy business in that area. The big worry was that they'd start going after oil tankers. One or two tankers destroyed and gas will go a LOT higher.

 

[gt_down_hill]

(hint: the Caribbean is NOT a good place for this...),

Just how unsafe is the Caribbean? I always assumed it was relatively calm, what with all the tourists and resorts and everything.

 

[abaddon]

My understanding re: the Caribbean is that it's significantly better than the coast off of Somalia and the strait between Indonesia and Malaysia. But it's still something to worry about. In the Caribbean you have the additional problem of drug runners trying to make it to Florida. The US Coast Guard has a presence in the area, obviously, but this was scaled down a lot after 9/11.

 

[mfree]

Hrmm, I wonder about the efficacy of thumping a bird-bomb round onto the deck of a "pirate vessel" *evil grin*

I have honestly no idea what I'd carry, but that I'd carry is a given.

 

[SUPERMAN .45]

Here in the Philippines, in our coastal water in the southern Mindanao. There are some pirates attack or hijacking on small boat or ferry boats. So when we travel going to the south, we escort our VIP's, we usually carry M-14 and AR-15's. All of us carry 1911's as our sidearm. Pirates here are mostly Muslims, they're weapons are M-14,M-16 and some AK's.
I'm a LEO and VIP security so when we escort our VIP's I carry my AR-15 with 10, 30 rounder magazine. My sidearm is an Armscor 1911 hi-cap . 45 i've got 6 spare mags I also have a 1911 hi-cap commander as my BUG. It's a little bit dangerous when we travel on a boat , usually our detail consist of 5 or 6 agents on board and we don't have any back-up. But still we do our job with no hassle and keep our client safe.

 

[goosegunner]

Remember the USA flag means "We shoot back!" They would rather attack a Canadian or French or Aussie vessel....easy pickings.

Oh joy, I would guess the norvegian flag falls in the same category. But with a boat of only 7.5m (25') I think the only defence I have is that the boat deos not look like it is anything worth stealing aboard. Combined with a shotgun, that is easily converted into an anchor without the rope, I think I can lower the risk to a acceptabe level. As long as I stay away from the high risk areas, who in my part of the world would be Africa in the south and Russia in the north. Russia have not a reputation for (non-goverment) pirates, but there are not many pleasure crafts from welthier countries there either, so its better to just stay clear. And to the west I would assume most of the waters north of the GOM to be fairly safe, at least so safe that the risk of travelling such distances in my boat will be the greatest hazard by large margin, if I ever decide to go in that direction.

What makes the incredibly low risk of pirate-attacs somethings I actually worry about is the fact that on the sea it is (nearly) only your mistakes that will kill you, do things right and you will get back home. But pirates adds a level of uncertanty and randomness that I absolutly do not like. I could do everything right and still end up as shrimp food. If I sink my boat, I can't think of any way that could happen without me doing something I know I should not have done. The other big risk is ofcouse to be run down, but with a crew that are able to hold constant watch, and either staying away from the high traffic areas or by getting a RADAR this is a manageable problem.

 

[cbsbyte]

I am not an international expert on martime laws. But, Do to different international laws I would only take a 12GA shotgun with buckshot. Anything more could be deemed excessive by other countries standards. And handguns could be illegal in the country you are visiting or sailing to after the incident. You don't want to be spending time in a third world country prison for 20+ years.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Travis:

American Flag = "We shoot back".

May it be forever so.

 

[ghost squire]

Rectally concealed LAW rocket(s).

 

[ghost squire]

Err... preferably with pop up sights not fixed sights, especially blade style.

 

[klover]

In the real world, how would you know that a pirate is a pirate from a distance? You might .50 bmg a simple fisher folk for no reason what so ever. Do you suppose they would be flying a skull and cross bones to let you know? Fire on innocent vessels and you definetly become jail bound. Allow pirates to come close, decrease your odds of getting out of it alive.

It's no longer what cruising was about in the 50's.