Priorities???

[kalielkslayer]

So I’m pretty new to progressive reloading.

in the last 2 weeks I’ve loaded close to 1,000 rounds of 9mm, all plated or FMJ.

this is plinking (training) ammo. It’s 5.8 grains HS6, either round nose fmj, or Berry’s flat tip.

functions well in mine and my wife’s Glocks, and both of the sons Springfields. Cycles well, ejects well, the only problem I’ve had is with one of my sons guns, it won’t lock the bolt back on the last round. I told him he needs to clean his gun?

so tomorrow I’m gonna start loading hollow points. I will take the load up near max, chronograph it, and do an accuracy test with my gun. Tweek it from there.

more than anything, I want reliability.

My questions are, what would you do at this point to ensure functionality?

The previously loaded rounds are for training. I want each of them to shoot a minimum of 100 rounds a week to become proficient.

the other loads are SD loads, which I’m starting tomorrow.

but I want them to shoot a magazine or 2 of the them monthly to get used to the difference.

Where am i going wrong, and where am I right on?

PS: I love HS6 because I can’t double load it. And I’ll be able to load 1,500 SD rounds with the HS6 I have left. Then it’ll be; TG, Zip, Win231 cause that’s what I got.

I have concerns with the powder that doesn’t fill the case as much as HS6.

I’m decapping my brass after tumbling, resizing/decapping, then tumbling to clean the primer pockets. It seems to make the primer pockets more consistent.

And I’m using range brass. But 25-30% of the brass is Win. I decided to separate that for my SD loads. I picked Win because it was the largest percentage, and I can see the head stamp the best.

please, tear holes in my process. I’ve always thrived from negative input.

 

[Johnnyd]

You did not mention how many grain bullets you are loading. Check the Hodgdon load data as you seem to be under the starting load for their listed 115gr and 124gr.

Does your sons gun lock back with factory ammo? If the answer is yes his gun is short stroking because he needs a more powerful load.

When loading SD rounds remember to push those rounds to guarantee expansion. Usually the mfg has a velocity recomendation.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I think you should also “Safely” dry fire your pistol as part if your training. Practice drawing from holster in different situations.

With Ammo being so expensive, even to reload, Have you considered a defensive training course with you and the family? “We don’t know what we don’t know”

Remember Jeff Coopers Rules of Safety:
RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

 

[lordpaxman]

Kudos for reloading and a family that shoots together stays together...
We’d need to know the bullet weight and what your COL is to advise.
Have you shot your son’s gun with your reloads? It possibly could be a gun malfunction, thumb on the slide release, dirty gun, under powered ammo, or limp wristing. Possibly others but those are the most common I’ve seen when the slide doesn’t lock back.
Regarding your powders, if at all possible with a progressive, get an RCBS lock out die. It will check for over/under powder variations and lock up the press. AND, you should always put an eyeball on the powder in the case before you seat the bullet. I’d suggest 231 as the next powder to use, TG is a faster powder, and I’ve never used Zip but have heard it’s comparable (not equal) to 231. 231 is better mannered than TG when pushing the velocity envelope.
I wouldn’t put a minimum number of rounds per week for training, rather put together a plan for drill including dry fire first followed by live fire. If at all possible, depending on everyone’s level of training, a basic or advanced pistol course followed by a CC course would be ideal. If everyone is comfortable with shooting, if you have any clubs in the area that offer a practical shooting league, IDPA or USPSA, these are other avenues to improve shooting skills while keeping safety in mind. And it’s a family affair. Good luck.

 

[wcwhitey]

It could also be a magazine issue with your son’s gun. It’s the Mag spring and follower that locks the slide. This could be a momentum issue but have him clean his magazine as well.

 

[dgod]

I could also be the recoil spring, if it is too strong, it may impede the bolt on recoil so as to not reach lock down.

You have several good options and possible solutions, good luck.

Great job of keeping the family involved..

 

[Dudedog]

I will take the load up near max, chronograph it, and do an accuracy test with my gun.

Not sure if that means you are going to work up or just go there, you should always work up....
The other powders you listed TG, W231 and ZIP are all faster than HS6 so less forgiving. TG tends to spike quickly.
As far as not taking up as much space int he case as HS6 the only real issue is the fact that a double charge may fit and not over flow,

You didn't say what bullet weight for the HS6 load but 5.8gr is way over Hodgdons data for a 147 and under start charge for 115/124s.

functions well in mine and my wife’s Glocks, and both of the sons Springfields. Cycles well, ejects well, the only problem I’ve had is with one of my sons guns, it won’t lock the bolt back on the last round. I told him he needs to clean his gun?

A clean gun is always a good idea, but if the slide is not locking back it could be the charge is to light.
Light charges can cause that. Failure to lock back after the last round could be due to a magazine issue, or another problem with the gun.
If it is working fine with other ammo I would suspect the charge needs to be increased a bit.

 

[Thomasss]

It sounds like to me, you should change your procedure. 1) Get 3 different references for each load you care to make 2) Work up a load from 5% to 8% under max, not near max. I said 8% and not Sammie 10% just so you have loads that recycle. Glocks recycle harder than Springfields 3)Shoot a few to make sure they recycle and shoot in all your guns and to your expectations before loading 1,000s.4) Don't rely on tumbling to clean primer pockets. Most 9mm pistol pockets don't need cleaning, however, there is always an exception when using range brass. If you want to tumble the pockets, great, BUT inspect the flash hole for obstructions. You never know what the previous guy did or did not do to the brass before you got it. 5) Different powders have different characteristics and that can complicate progressive loading. You need to find a way to check powder loads. I hand weigh each load, my buddy weighs every ten and when using a new powder people memorize what a good powder level looks like. 6) Follow this procedure and you don't have to worry about functioning and safety.

 

[CMB]

Few more ideas-

This may sound silly but is he holding the gun firmly? I remember loading a few that would shoot fine for me then when I handed it over to the wife it would short stroke as mentioned.

Are you crimping the round? It's surprising how much the crimp effects the way the round behaves.

It would be interesting to hear what spring weight he is running.

If you discover the solution please share it.

Cheers,

 

[BigBlue 94]

the other loads are SD loads, which I’m starting tomorrow.

I recommend doing some research about using hand loaded ammo in a self defense situation. Especially when not on your own property.

Lawyers will try to make you out as some crazy mad scientist plotting hate and destruction with custom high performance ammo.

Otherwise, welcome to the rabbit hole of reloading!

 

[MWC1974]

I think you should also “Safely” dry fire your pistol as part if your training. Practice drawing from holster in different situations.

With Ammo being so expensive, even to reload, Have you considered a defensive training course with you and the family? “We don’t know what we don’t know”

Remember Jeff Coopers Rules of Safety:
RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

while I think you generalized message is important, I don’t think you answered anything the OP was asking.

 

[MWC1974]

I think your process is sound, with the exception of loading 2K rounds prior to verifying they function for your needs. I would go back to a smaller batch and work up a load that cycles properly and safely in all of your firearms.

 

[Bacon buster]

Have you tried shooting his gun to see if the problem persists? Could be grip error with thumb possibly?

 

[kalielkslayer]

Kudos for reloading and a family that shoots together stays together...
We’d need to know the bullet weight and what your COL is to advise.
Have you shot your son’s gun with your reloads? It possibly could be a gun malfunction, thumb on the slide release, dirty gun, under powered ammo, or limp wristing. Possibly others but those are the most common I’ve seen when the slide doesn’t lock back.
Regarding your powders, if at all possible with a progressive, get an RCBS lock out die. It will check for over/under powder variations and lock up the press. AND, you should always put an eyeball on the powder in the case before you seat the bullet. I’d suggest 231 as the next powder to use, TG is a faster powder, and I’ve never used Zip but have heard it’s comparable (not equal) to 231. 231 is better mannered than TG when pushing the velocity envelope.
I wouldn’t put a minimum number of rounds per week for training, rather put together a plan for drill including dry fire first followed by live fire. If at all possible, depending on everyone’s level of training, a basic or advanced pistol course followed by a CC course would be ideal. If everyone is comfortable with shooting, if you have any clubs in the area that offer a practical shooting league, IDPA or USPSA, these are other avenues to improve shooting skills while keeping safety in mind. And it’s a family affair. Good luck.

I appreciate your input. The wife and I are retired law enforcement but that only means we qualified quarterly. For me it was 36+ years. Yet I feel I have a lot to learn. My son spent 6 years in the military and shoots regularly yet hasn’t had any formalized training except his CCW training. My stepsons training is basically what we do in the back yard. I realize it’s a perishable skill.

so I’ll look into formalized training.

I do a visual on each case after station #2 to check powder level.

I also weigh the first few charges when I resume loading. After that I weigh very 15th to 20th. I’m amazed at how accurate the powder thrower is, maybe it’s just with the powder I use?

And I forgot to mention I have 2 lbs of Bulleye as well.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Not sure if that means you are going to work up or just go there, you should always work up....
The other powders you listed TG, W231 and ZIP are all faster than HS6 so less forgiving. TG tends to spike quickly.
As far as not taking up as much space int he case as HS6 the only real issue is the fact that a double charge may fit and not over flow,

You didn't say what bullet weight for the HS6 load but 5.8gr is way over Hodgdons data for a 147 and under start charge for 115/124s.
View attachment 979124



A clean gun is always a good idea, but if the slide is not locking back it could be the charge is to light.
Light charges can cause that. Failure to lock back after the last round could be due to a magazine issue, or another problem with the gun.
If it is working fine with other ammo I would suspect the charge needs to be increased a bit.

I’m sorry I didn’t mention the bullet I was using.

They are 124 grain bullets. My Hornady 7th Edition shows 5.9 grains of HS6 as max. My Nosler book was like .1 grain difference. I searched online and saw people running 5.5 grains on their 124 gr loads.

What’s a good book for handgun??

I loaded single stage rifle for 30’years so I always bought the books that covered the bullets I was shooting; Barnes, Hornady, Nosler, Speer and I have an old PO Ackley book around here somewhere.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I recommend doing some research about using hand loaded ammo in a self defense situation. Especially when not on your own property.

Lawyers will try to make you out as some crazy mad scientist plotting hate and destruction with custom high performance ammo.

Otherwise, welcome to the rabbit hole of reloading!

No worries.

We all carry factory ammo in our CCWs. And will until it doesn’t exist anymore.

When I say “SD/self defense” I really should be saying hollow points. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Have you tried shooting his gun to see if the problem persists? Could be grip error with thumb possibly?

No. But I will. I’m not very familiar with Springfields. My other son said he had the same problem with his and cleaning it fixed the problem.

But his wasn’t locking back with factory. Funny thing is I gave both boys 25 rounds a week earlier and had them go outside to test function. They didn’t have a problem, or he didn’t notice it.

I’ll try the gun myself since he hasn’t cleaned it yet. Then, either way, it’ll get a good cleaning.

Thanks

 

[kalielkslayer]

Few more ideas-

This may sound silly but is he holding the gun firmly? I remember loading a few that would shoot fine for me then when I handed it over to the wife it would short stroke as mentioned.

Are you crimping the round? It's surprising how much the crimp effects the way the round behaves.

It would be interesting to hear what spring weight he is running.

If you discover the solution please share it.

Cheers,

Your first question, I’m not sure but I’ll find out.

Second question, yes. Not sure how to tell how much crimp is enough? What I’ve been doing when I build my dummy round is tapping it lightly with a small crescent wrench I use to adjust the dies, 3Xs. If the OAL changes, I add more crimp. I’m not pounding on it, but I’m sure I’m hitting it with more force than the setback in the magazine? BUT I just thought I should be measuring length of a round in the magazine after firing 8-10 rounds?

Thanks for your input.

 

[LightninST]

I personally would try the Bullseye powder you have .
I always check the manufacturers on line data .

REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=1&cartridge=23

 

[kalielkslayer]

I think your process is sound, with the exception of loading 2K rounds prior to verifying they function for your needs. I would go back to a smaller batch and work up a load that cycles properly and safely in all of your firearms.

I appreciate that. I loaded approximately 40 rounds, then shot them through both my wife’s and my Glocks, no issues.

I loaded 50 more. When the boys got home from work, I gave each of them 1/2, actually it was 23 each. Told them to out to our pistol range and tell me if they chambered and ejected. They both reported back they were fine. I didn’t ask about locking back the slide after the last round, my fault. But He didn’t say anything.

It was a few days later when him and I were shooting that I noticed it.

Of the 2 boys, he’s by far the least experienced so maybe he didn’t even know. I realized it as I was putting him through a drill. I wanted to see how he reacted to having to change his mag. I anticipated his mag change, but he ended up dry firing. I told him when the slide locks back, you’ll learn to feel it. He said it didn’t lock back. That’s how I found the problem.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I personally would try the Bullseye powder you have .
I always check the manufacturers on line data .

REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=1&cartridge=23

Thanks!

 

[jmorris]

Cycles well, ejects well, the only problem I’ve had is with one of my sons guns, it won’t lock the bolt back on the last round. I told him he needs to clean his gun?

If it functions properly with factory ammunition your load might be too weak to work with that recoil spring.

I case gauge every round that’s important to me. Lots that fail a case gauge will still run but culling them gets me the closest to 100% function.

 

[kalielkslayer]

It sounds like to me, you should change your procedure. 1) Get 3 different references for each load you care to make 2) Work up a load from 5% to 8% under max, not near max. I said 8% and not Sammie 10% just so you have loads that recycle. Glocks recycle harder than Springfields 3)Shoot a few to make sure they recycle and shoot in all your guns and to your expectations before loading 1,000s.4) Don't rely on tumbling to clean primer pockets. Most 9mm pistol pockets don't need cleaning, however, there is always an exception when using range brass. If you want to tumble the pockets, great, BUT inspect the flash hole for obstructions. You never know what the previous guy did or did not do to the brass before you got it. 5) Different powders have different characteristics and that can complicate progressive loading. You need to find a way to check powder loads. I hand weigh each load, my buddy weighs every ten and when using a new powder people memorize what a good powder level looks like. 6) Follow this procedure and you don't have to worry about functioning and safety.

Thanks for the advice!

As a rifle reloader for years, it’s ingrained in me to start low and work up. Check each piece of brass for pressure signs; flattened primers, sticky extraction, etc.

So for this new pistol thingy, I looked at the 2 manuals I had and started at 5.4 grains for a 124 grain bullet my manual says 5.9 is max, just less than 10%. At 5.8 I got reliability from both our Glocks. Then the boys said they were good in their guns too.

Then I started loading. I didn’t chronograph the loads, or test for accuracy. Maybe I should have? Accuracy wasn’t a concern for me with plinking ammo. But Standard Deviation would have told me how consistent the round was.

I only weigh the first 5 charges when I start back up. They have always been consistent except the first has been .1-.2 grains heavy at least once. I threw it back in the powder measure. After that I weigh every 15-20th charge. I’m amazed how accurate the powder drop is. If I load for 3 hours, weigh 40-50 charges, I usually get 2 or 3 that are .1 grain off. But when that happens, I measure the next couple.

Initially, I was tumbling my brass, then loading it. I was having inconsistent primer seeding. More than once the case didn’t pick up a primer. So I just deprimed/sized the brass, then put it back in the tumbler. After that the black crud is gone from the primer pockets.

I use a little Dawn the first go around, then a little brass cleaner the second go around.

I will take a little longer looking at the flash holes while I’m separating the media, that’s a great idea.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I’m not sure I replied to everyone, but I read every reply and thanks everyone for the input!

 

[9mmepiphany]

I’m not very familiar with Springfields.

Since you haven't mentioned it, I'll just ask...Which Springfield? Springfield makes/imports many different models with the two main lines being their 1911 and their XD models