Problems with AR-15

[civprod]

I recently bought an AR-15 and went out to fire it today. However, when I was shooting it I ran into multiple fail to feed issues, fail to fire, and a round that became deformed after it was fired. I think that out of 45 rounds fired, there was a fail to feed or fail to fire between 8 and 10 times.

The lower is a Rock River lower but the upper is not nearly as high of quality. The magazines are supposedly GI magazines with the green followers.

The ammunition that was being shot was brand new Winchester 5.56.

There were several rounds that you can see the dimpling on the primer but the round did not fire. And then on the final round, the round fired it looks like the primer of the round just melted. The part where the firing pin hits is completely gone and you can look through the round.

I tried one of my friends magazines and still had fail to feed and fail to fire problems. I doubt that that magazine was bad because he has fired around 90 rounds using that magazine and did not have a single fail to feed or fail to fire problem with his AR-15. I looked at the feed ramp and it seems smooth. The entire gun was cleaned and well oiled prior to my taking it to the range today.

If nothing else seems to be the problem, I will try new ammunition the next time I am at the range

One other thing, one of my friends was trying to figure out what wrong and he said that the bolt assembly seems to be really tight and that it almost sounds like it is grinding against the frame as you pull the charging handle.


Does anyone have any ideas of what might be wrong and what I might be able to do to fix it.

 

[TODD3465]

Check and see if the bolt carrier is slightly bent.

It's not unheard of.

A friend of mine had that happen on a Bushmaster upper he bought.


BTW- Who made the upper?

 

[1911 guy]

!!!caution!!!

I don't know what the problem is with that rifle, but get it figured out and fixed before you shoot it again. What you experienced is not in any way normal or safe. If nobody here can get you in the right direction, take it to a 'smith.

 

[Cosmoline]

Does anyone have any ideas of what might be wrong and what I might be able to do to fix it.

The problem is the design is horrible. Return it for your money back or consign it.

Then get a PROPER rifle.

 

[civprod]

I am not sure who made the upper. I believe that it is an HBAR upper but I am not sure and there are no manufacturer's logos on the upper. I would have liked to get a better upper but I did not really have the money to buy one at the moment and I did not really see any upper in particular that would have convinced me to exceed my predetermined spending limit.

The bolt and charging handle were bought seperately from the upper, but they are a GI model bolt and charging handle. There seems to be some friction but the dealer I bought it from did not indicate that there would be any problems with the combination when I asked before purchasing.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Best bet is to get a gunsmith familiar with AR's to give it the "once over" if you can't narrow down the problem.

When you disassemble it, are there any obvious wear marks through the finish on the internals that look out of place?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Cosmoline +1

Sell it and buy an M1A, a proper rifle in a proper caliber...

O.k. just kidding...

Seriously, DON"T FIRE THAT RIFLE AGAIN UNTIL A GUNSMITH LOOKS AT IT...preferably NOT the one who sold it to you. I don't mean to besmirch that persons character, but I believe a third opinion might be helpful.

If a serious problem is discovered take it to the person you bought it from and give him/her the opportunity to make it right.

It sounds to me as though your chamber may be very very dirty or just plain incorrectly sized....this would cause FTFeed and could cause the bolt to be just enough out of battery to allow the pressure type problem you describe with the primer blowing out. Had it happen to me once with a Hakim Rifle in 8mm Mauser. Gun blew apart in my hands...after I cleaned out my pants and repaired the rifle I never let it happen again. (Still have all ten fingers, believe it or not.)

 

[Zak Smith]

The problem is the design is horrible. Return it for your money back or consign it.

Then get a PROPER rifle.

Whatever. A properly built AR15 will run for thousands of rounds without cleaning, safely.

The problem is that this upper is a POS and was gunplumbed together by someone who cannot build a safe AR15 upper.

I second the proposal to have an AR15 gunsmith/amorer look at it.

The primer "melting" is an indicator of severe overpressure. This could be due to faulty ammunition, a tight chamber or bore, or excessive headspace. Do not fire the upper again until you understand why this overpressure occured.

The light primer hits, in the presence of a known good (RRA) lower, could indicate: a headspace problem, bolt carrier group problem, or assembly problem.

-z

 

[Coronach]

The primer "melting" is an indicator of severe overpressure. This could be due to faulty ammunition, a tight chamber or bore, or excessive headspace. Do not fire the upper again until you understand why this overpressure occured.

Hmmm. He mentions firing 5.56 NATO, but does not specify the chambering of the rifle. Could a .223 rifle/5.56 ammo combo cause that much of a problem?

Mike

 

[Zak Smith]

I guess it's possible, but it would surprise me. We don't know what the barrel is, it could have been chambered by Billy Bob Basement Gunsmith for all we know.

He should examine the barrel with the handguards removed and report any markings he find there.

In conjunction with the light primer hits, the headspace needs to be checked first.

Once that's sorted out, a specific description of how any remaining jams occur would be helpful.

 

[Cosmoline]

Good money? Hello, this is Bad money. Why don't you jump in here after me?

 

[ny32182]

With AR-15's especially, it seems you get what you pay for.

The AR-15 is the most reliable *firearm* I have ever owned, other than my Sig 226.

Of course, all my AR-15s were built by companies who know how to build them. If you go cheap, you risk problems, and unfortunately you are experiencing that now.

Personally I'd cut my losses and spring for a quality upper. Good luck...

 

[Coronach]

Good money? Hello, this is Bad money. Why don't you jump in here after me?

There are plenty of people with perfectly reliable ARs. Mine runs like a top, right out of the box. That experience is the norm, not the exception, despite the AR Haters' most fervent wishes. All rifle designs and all rifle manufacturers can yield lemons. Sounds like he has one (especially if he is using a knock-off upper), but it's hardly good money following bad to get his investment fixed (personally? I'd just buy a good quality upper and be done with it).

OTOH, I am impressed that this thread went for a whole three replies before we got an "all ARs suck" argument.

Mike

 

[Coronach]

If you go cheap, you risk problems, and unfortunately you are experiencing that now.

Quite right. This works for almost every rifle design, too. Ishapore enfields, SAR-1s by Century, CETMEs by Century (hell, every rifle by Century, it seems), FALs by fly-by-night operations, M14 clones by Norinco ... all examples of quality designs that can (but not always) be lemons due to poor QC standards of the manufacturer/assembler. ARs are not immune to this...and neither are AKs.

Mike

 

[civprod]

Thanks for the responses, I am getting closer to just biting the bullet and springing for a new upper. If I had all of these problems after 45 rounds I am really concerned about the long term viability of the upper and whether or not I can continue to fire it without it annoying me because of all the FTF's.

One other piece of information that might help someone figure out what the problem is with my new rifle:

Last night, I looked at it again, and there seems to be excessive wear on the spent brass deflector. The finish has started to wear off, and this is after 45 rounds have been fired through it. I know that there is not anything that I have done when handling, storing, or cleaning the rifle that could have caused that much wear. I don't know if this is a result of the problem that I had at the range or just an indication of the quality of the upper.

 

[TC66]

I am thinking it may be a .223 chamber also. That would explain the primer and the fail to feed might be because the chamber is tighter. Without measuring the throat it is hard to tell and then again that is no guarantee that you can tell. But in my experience the .223 chamber throat is about half the length of the 5.56 throat length. If it is a .223 Wylde chamber that would not matter. They can fire both .223 and 5.56 no problem. Are there any other markings on the barrel in front of the front sight/gas block or under the handguards?

Have you used a chamber brush on it? If the previous owner was firing anything with laquer coating the chamber may be gummed up and causing the feed issues and holding the round in the chamber a little longer than it should even after the bolt unlocks causing over pressure. Look inside the upper and see if the bolt carrier is putting excess wear on the inside. If it is you may want to get a new carrier.

 

[No4Mk1*]

"The bolt and charging handle were bought seperately from the upper"

Do AR-15 bolts need to be headspaced to the barrel?

 

[civprod]

I think that they do need to be headspaced, judging upon the responses that I have received on this site as well as others. Is there an easy way to check the headspace? I know that there is a commercially available tool that can be used to check the headspace, but I believe that it needs to be brand specific, and I am not sure of who made my upper.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but if I were to buy a complete upper assembly from a well known manufacturer with the charging handle and bolt already included, the headspace has already been tested and is correct?

If there is no easy way to check the headspace, I really think that this will be an expensive learning experience and I will just replace it.

 

[Shear_stress]

Do AR-15 bolts need to be headspaced to the barrel?

We may have a winner. Maybe the headspace is a little loose and the bolt is not snuggling up to the case head. A little airspace could be allowing the powder to blow back through the case's flame hole and melt the primers (??) Could be the same root cause as the light strikes.

 

[DT Guy]

I think the concensus is that, WITH GI SPEC PARTS, you can put most any bolt with most any upper and be OK on headspace-if the parts are new, or at least not worn. Get something worn or out of spec and it is certainly possible for headspace issues to creep up.


What brand of ammo were you using, BTW? If it was Olympic, it could just be an ammo problem. Everything you noted has been seen with that ammo.



Larry

 

[civprod]

It is a GI-spec bolt and charging handle and when I asked, the dealer did not indicate that there would be a problem in matching that bolt with that upper. Unfortunately, if that turns out to be a problem, I bought it from a dealer at a gun show and the dealer is not located anywhere close to me, so it may be difficult to address any problems with them, unless it is over the phone.

I was shooting brand new Winchester 5.56 rounds. No reloads or anything. Also, I cleaned and oiled it prior to firing, including using a barrel brush, and there was not any buildup in the barrel so that was not the problem.

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[boing]

I wouldn't be so sure the bolt/carrier assembly is "GI spec". Calling AR parts "Mil-Spec" is like calling things "tactical": sometimes it's just a sales pitch buzzword, with no real meaning.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but if I were to buy a complete upper assembly from a well known manufacturer with the charging handle and bolt already included, the headspace has already been tested and is correct?

Yes. The headspace on the AR15 is determined by the dimensions to which the bolt and the barrel are machined (that's the gist of it, anyway). Even bolts and barrels from different reputable manufacturers will almost(!) always headspace correctly, because the reputable makers keep the proper tolerances.

I hope you get your problem sorted out.

 

[taliv]

civprod, headspace gauges are not brand specific. there are just two sets; one for 5.56 nato and another for .223 rem.


also, not to pick nits here, but when you say your ammo was "Winchester 5.56" do you really mean that? Does winchester make 5.56? i wasn't aware of that (but then, winchester doesn't exactly send me a memo every time they make some ammo)

are you maybe talking about winchester 223 white box stuff you get at wally world?


if you're shooting walmart stuff, the chamber in the upper (or possibly the bolt) are almost definitely your problem. if you're shooting 5.56, then try some american eagle or something and see if you still have the same problem. another option is to swap bolts with your friend and see if you still get the problems.

but first, like everybody else said, take it to a good gunsmith.


edit: re: cleaning, using a bore brush doesn't clean the chamber, which is what we're all concerned about. you must get a chamber brush and thoroughly clean the chamber. there may be some goop or gunk caked up in it (unlikely, but possible) that could cause things to fit tight and give you extraction problems.

 

[civprod]

It is 5.56, I found the exact type of ammunition that I was shooting here: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/...gid=&mscssid=6H9WH20F6XTK9M2TMDJNJXXLLJ9H9EP0.

I will try .223 next time to see if that is the problem.

Also, I am sorry for my ignorance about some of these matters but this is the first time that I have owned an AR-15, or any rifle for that matter, so I am still unfamiliar with some of the specifics and as a result cannot always use the correct terminology or better describe my problems. If nothing else, this experience has been a very good learning experience and exposed me to a great deal of information that I had been previously unaware of.

 

[MechAg94]

I had some similar trouble with my Armalite the week before last. It turned out to be a small piece of brass that got into the bolt preventing it from moving like it is supposed to. Came from a primer section that had fallen out of a cartrige.

I was trying to burn through some cheap ammo. I found 2 or 3 fired rounds where the primer section had fallen out. Once, I saw one of those primer cases jammed in there preventing the bolt from going all the way forward. I tore the rifle down including the bolt and found a small sliver of brass in the bolt. I figured it was from one of those primer pieces that got caught up in the bolt.

I wiped it down and reassembled. I burned through 30 or 40 rounds of new Wolf ammo after that with no problem whatsoever.

What you said sounded similar to my troubles so I figured I would relay that. Pulling the bolt apart is pretty simple if you have never done it.