Proficiency Training Thoughts?

[Shodan]

It's the carpenter, not the tools.

You can't buy proficiency, but you can do yourself a disservice by stubbornly being tied to one gun while another brand or model may fit your needs much better.

 

[FL-NC]

I pretty much tie myself down to 2 types of handguns- striker (Glock and M&P shield) and 1911. These are the handguns I have the most experience with and they are heavily "imprinted" on me. I don't care for actions like DA, where there are 2 different trigger types on 1 gun, and there are other issues like needing to de-cock before holstering, etc. During the days when I was required to use a M9 pistol for work, the Sig 228 was my personal every day carry gun with its compact size and excellent overall design. When my employer got away from issuing the M9 and switched to the Glock, I got all my personal DA guns out of my life.

 

[The Night Rider]

I don't see anything wrong with sticking with a gun that I'm intimately familiar with and I know works.

I've been stubbornly tied to the gun that I carry now for 11 years. I carried it at work every night for 5 or 6 years. I qualified Expert (Admittedly not a high bar for a security company) with it every time. I've carried it through multiple training classes. I'm very used to it.

I started with SAO guns, specifically 1911s in .45 ACP. I transitioned to TDA guns and finally to SFA guns. Each step was an attempt to simplify the process or to meet a city requirement (No SAOs for security guards) or an Employer requirement (No CZs for HSS).

I carried an M&P 40 for G4S. When I went to AUS I carried a Glock 19.

I own an M&P9. I actually prefer the M&P9 but I chose Glock because Glock is just a little bit more compact than the full size M&P9 and the Glock 26 is significantly more compact than the
M&P9C Now called the M&P 9 Sub Compact.

The second generation M&P didn't exist when I chose the Glock 19 but I don't think I would have gone with the M&P "compact" even if they did because there's still that drastic difference between the M&P "Sub Compact" and the Glock 26.

And finally I'm a cheap bastard. If I had no gun at all I would probably buy an M&P Shield plus and call it good.

But I have a Glock 19. I have a Glock 26. I have multiple magazines for both as well as holsters for both.

Both handguns have seen me safely through every single gunfight I've ever been in (a grand total of zero).

I have no interest in pissing that money away so I can go out and try the next latest greatest.

 

[The Night Rider]

It's the carpenter, not the tools.

Then go buy yourself a Bryco and call it good.

When I was young my father, who actually was a carpenter, told me "You make your living with your tools. Buy the best tools you can afford and never sell them."

I never saw my father carry cheap tools at work.

 

[Shodan]

Then go buy yourself a Bryco and call it good.

When I was young my father, who actually was a carpenter, told me "You make your living with your tools. Buy the best tools you can afford and never sell them."

I never saw my father carry cheap tools at work.

You can't quote me then edit parts out. It's disingenuous to frame my post as recommending low quality gear. In the context of this post, members have alluded to 'pick a gun and stick with it for life'. I'm an example; I had become very proficient with a Glock over the course of 25 years or so, I've recently switched to a Walther and my shooting has improved greatly. Can I get the Glock out and still shoot well? Of course. Do I enjoy shooting my Walther at a higher level? Also of course.

 

[The Night Rider]

You can't quote me then edit parts out. It's disingenuous to frame my post as recommending low quality gear.

I didn't frame your post as recommending low quality gear. I took it to its logical conclusion.

If it truly is the carpenter not the tools you should be just fine with a Bryco or a Llama or a Taurus.

the context of this post, members have alluded to 'pick a gun and stick with it for life'.

I'm one of those members. I picked 9mm Glocks Glocks work for me. I don't see any reason to piss away any more of my disposable income looking for the next best thing.

I never alluded to stick with the one platform for life(Although I'm aware others have)because I really don't care what other people do.

I'm an example; I had become very proficient with a Glock over the course of 25 years or so, I've recently switched to a Walther and my shooting has improved greatly. Can I get the Glock out and still shoot well? Of course.

Happy for you.

Do I enjoy shooting my Walther at a higher level? Also of course.

Again, happy for you.

 

[entropy]

It's the carpenter, not the tools.

You can't buy proficiency, but you can do yourself a disservice by stubbornly being tied to one gun while another brand or model may fit your needs much better.

Your statement contradicts your metaphor. A more correct version we use in Trap shooting is "It's the Indian, not the arrow."
It means a good trapshooter can pick up any shotgun out of the rack and shoot a 20 or above.
You are correct in that you can't buy proficiency, but then you state right after that you CAN buy performance by buying something else. While ideally, it's best to start with the best equipment, one can achieve legendary status with pedestrian tools. Don't believe me? Research Daro Handy, and Rudy Etchen, two Trapshooters that shot thier ways in the ATA Hall of Fame with bone stock Remington 870's.

Then go buy yourself a Bryco and call it good.

When I was young my father, who actually was a carpenter, told me "You make your living with your tools. Buy the best tools you can afford and never sell them."

I never saw my father carry cheap tools at work.

Your first statement is disingenuous in that concerning self defense firearms, reliability is paramount, and while no brand can guarantee 100% reliability, we all know Bryco is a brand that is much closer to 100% unreliability.

I agree with your father 100%. Having said that, my first Trap gun was a beat up old 1100 duck gun that would only get one shot off before jamming. My average now, with a gun designed specifically for Trap, isn't any higher than back then, about 22.5.

 

[The Night Rider]

Your first statement is disingenuous in that concerning self defense firearms, reliability is paramount, and while no brand can guarantee 100% reliability, we all know Bryco is a brand that is much closer to 100% unreliability.

If it truly is the Carpenter not the tools or even the Indian and not the arrow than a Bryco should be enough.

You keep using that word.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

youtu.be

Disingenuous
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

adjective

1. not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
   "he was being somewhat disingenuous as well as cynical"

 

[jmorris]

It's the carpenter, not the tools.

I've seen a lot of folks tank a match with tools that didn't run 100%.

 

[Shodan]

Your statement contradicts your metaphor. A more correct version we use in Trap shooting is "It's the Indian, not the arrow."
It means a good trapshooter can pick up any shotgun out of the rack and shoot a 20 or above.
You are correct in that you can't buy proficiency, but then you state right after that you CAN buy performance by buying something else. While ideally, it's best to start with the best equipment, one can achieve legendary status with pedestrian tools. Don't believe me? Research Daro Handy, and Rudy Etchen, two Trapshooters that shot thier ways in the ATA Hall of Fame with bone stock Remington 870's.

I'll buy that. I like your metaphor better. Although if I would have spent a couple grand on my Glock in place of practice is a better example of trying to buy performance than switching to a Walther in the same price point that I simply shoot better.

 

[drobs]

I focus the majority of my practice on my carry guns - striker fired Glock 43X and a striker fired Ruger LC9s Pro. Both have similar triggers.

However...
I like shooting, plinking, practicing with other styles of handguns and... I find it does help my Carry Gun shooting.

So yes you can own multiple types of handguns, shoot, and enjoy them. However, you should focus your practice on 1 style and master that as your carry guns.

 

[entropy]

If it truly is the Carpenter not the tools or even the Indian and not the arrow than a Bryco should be enough.

You keep using that word.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

youtu.be

Disingenuous
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

adjective

1. not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
   "he was being somewhat disingenuous as well as cynical"

I was implying that knowing the conversation was about carry guns, your recommendation of a Bryco is tantamount to recommending Lady Gaga's meat suit to wear as shark protection.

 

[The Night Rider]

I was implying that knowing the conversation was about carry guns, your recommendation of a Bryco is tantamount to recommending Lady Gaga's meat suit to wear as shark protection.

I will concede that you believe that.

The main point that I'm trying to make was that was not my intention.

My intention, as stated, was to take that thought to its logical conclusion.

 

[entropy]

Ad infinitum, not necessarily logical. I do get your intention, just disagreed with the example cited.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Well... there's competence, and then there's proficiency.

Competence means you have the knowledge, skills, and ability to shoot safely and accurately.

Whereas there are various levels of proficiency (skill) based on objective measurements. IDPA classifications are an example of proficiency. Courses of fire and drills are other measures of proficiency.

Keep in mind that many an old lady have successfully defended themselves with a gun and very little training and practice.

 

[film495]

It's the carpenter, not the tools.

You can't buy proficiency, but you can do yourself a disservice by stubbornly being tied to one gun while another brand or model may fit your needs much better.

last summer I carried a combination of an old CZ-70, a S&W 10-7, and an NAA mini revolver. I replaced them all with a Taurus 856 UL, .38 Special with a 3" barrel in a sticky holster.

 

[Kleanbore]

I'm afraid that the heat to light ratio has become too high in this one.