Punched in the Head (gun related)

[PennsyPlinker]

In a number of threads I have read here, and in which I have participated, several posters have indicated that they would prefer to be punched around a bit instead of resorting to deadly force, or even (gasp!) brandishing their weapon. The thought is that a real tough guy should be able to take a few shots (with fists, feet, etc) rather than "escalate" the situation with a gun. Read on below...

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-weddingfight060606,0,2576648.story

This is the original article posted last year. It was reposted on the news site along with the verdict.

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/the-morning-call/T2JFC1RQFAT27ERNQ

There were no guns involved in this altercation, and indeed, the victim may have never seen it coming, armed or not. However, for those of us toting guns about, I think two conclusions can be drawn from this.

First, one should always be aware of what is going on around oneself. In a barfight like this one, discretion seems to be the better part of valor. Second, it doesn't matter how tough a person thinks they are, one punch can end it all for a lot of people, not just the punchee. There is one dead guy, a widow, fatherless children, and a brand new prison inmate. Many other lives have been changed for the worse.

As a final thought, I am one of those who thinks that in certain instances, producing a weapon and communicating intent to use it if necessary can de-escalate a situation, one in which everyone goes home alive. At the least, the perpetrator might have ended up dead instead of the guy standing around minding his own business.

 

[Big Calhoun]

I'm all over the place with this.

For one, a punch or series of punches can be just as life threatining as a gun. Someone posted a video on TFL recently of a gentleman who was standing at a fast-food counter and some vagrant blind sided him, knocking him out cold....I believe 13 stitches and a black eye was the end result.

Now, after watching that, I notcied another video on the side. It was two men, talking or goofing off. As they're doing their thing, a couple comes walking buy. One of the goofs extends his arm out, striking the woman. Can't tell if it was accidental or intentional. The womans friend then goes into a serious flurry of punches, knocking down both of the goofs, multiple times. You can see one goof ball attempt to put up a fight, and he takes 3 or 4 punches in a blink of an eye, never getting off punch. So to that end, I feel a physical altercation gone to fisticuffs can be just as deadly as one involving a weapon.

As to the escalation/deescalation issue, I'm of a different mindset. I've lived in some very bad nieghborhoods and not all my friends are the most 'upstanding' citizens. Where I'm from, if a person is commiting a crime and takes a gun, he or she feels they have nothing to lose. If they were to encounter a victim with a gun, it would actually only escalate the situation. You are now a threat to what a criminal loves most, their freedom. If he/she feels they have nothing to lose, than it doesn't take much thought to squeeze the trigger. Again, that's my take based on my life experiences. I've read of instances where displaying a weapon has deescalated a situation, I just rather not try that experiment.

 

[Aries-]

i know for a fact if a large guy took a good swing at me and connected id be down for the count. as im 6' and 140lbs(im a twig) so if i was in a place that had CCW id for sure be pulling it out to protect myself far earlyer than many larger guys would.

 

[Big Calhoun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUUypU-tgLE&mode=related&search=

This is the video I was referring to. Now, total video is 1m 20s. The action starts at .39s and ends at .56s. In that 17 seconds, I counted approx 21 punches thrown by the one individual and I'm certain I missed about 2 or 3 because like I said, it's a flurry.

Now, I'm 6ft even, 255lbs. Pretty solidly built except for an occasional gut thanks to Glenfiddich scotch. There is no way I can throw a punch as fast as that guy, mine are moderate and hard. If I were to encounter that person in a different scenario, at some point (unless he withdrew), I'd have to draw my weapon because I would not be able to counter his speed aside from just tucking in and absorbing everything.

 

[JesseL]

As to the escalation/deescalation issue, I'm of a different mindset. I've lived in some very bad nieghborhoods and not all my friends are the most 'upstanding' citizens. Where I'm from, if a person is commiting a crime and takes a gun, he or she feels they have nothing to lose. If they were to encounter a victim with a gun, it would actually only escalate the situation. You are now a threat to what a criminal loves most, their freedom. If he/she feels they have nothing to lose, than it doesn't take much thought to squeeze the trigger. Again, that's my take based on my life experiences. I've read of instances where displaying a weapon has deescalated a situation, I just rather not try that experiment.

If someone is threatening you with a deadly weapon, the situation is already escalated to a '10' - it can't get any more escalated. You have to assume that anyone threatening to kill you has the intention of killing you.

This is why you don't draw your weapon and wave it around. You draw your weapon, shoot, and keep shooting until the threat has stopped.

 

[PennsyPlinker]

Aries, I am in the exact opposite situation from you. I am a very big guy, 6'2" and 400 lbs (not marshmallowy either). I have broken bones on others with punches in my dark and sordid past. I would be afraid to hit someone with my full force because I might be the one who did the killing!

Big Calhoun, I think it is always a judgment call. That video looks like the whole thing was planned. Who would film two guys just standing there talking like that? And the one looks like a lookout for the other, telling him when to swing. I just think it went wrong on them.

 

[mpmarty]

That wasn't a fight, those two fools just acted as punching bags.

 

[bogie]

Well, I've been victim of a one punch knockout before.

I'm a big guy. I tend to attract the little feisty ones...

I was facing uphill on a steep cement sidewalk, outside a club door. I didn't even see the guy hit me. I went over backwards, bounced off the pavement, and woke up with flashing lights...

Situational awareness, folks. That, and carry something that you can get out if you need to while you're scuffling.

 

[jobu07]

We just finished up our Army Combatives training in Infantry Officer School a few days back. The culmination for this certification is closing the distance between you and an attacker from projectile range and "achieving the clench." Essentially you need to complete 1 of 3 different preventative techniques designed to keep him from hitting you - and you can't punch back while he's swinging at you. The short of it is that there are a LOT of small guys in my class with me. There are some big guys too. Your size has little to do with how well you are able to absorb a punch to the face. If someone can keep their hands up to protect their face, even a little guy who is physically weaker than the strong guys can eat some punchs to the face. Haymakers and all.

My opinion, carry a sidearm and keep your situational awareness keen so you never have to worry about taking a punch.

 

[greenflash107]

Those Two guys are still trying to figure out just what hit them(a bunch of times) I'm sorry, but that was so funny!

 

[BRASSM]

I am not a pacifist, I am normally a quiet mellow person. But I grew up in one of the toughest neighborhoods in Brooklyn , New York. I don't care how tough you are, a blow single to the head can be fatal. I've seen some really big bruisers wind up dead because some shorter guy just punched up into the vagus nerve. Don't say it can't happen. I would never punch someone in the head. Even though Yokomenuche is a practiced Aikido strike. The human skull is about as tough as oak, and a countercoup injury and cause all sorts of neurological disorders. If it gets to the point were I have to resort to physical violence, I'm going to be as quick, quiet, and lethal as possible. A sidearm is just a back up for multiple attackers. If someone is within seven meters of you, they will be on you before you can clear your holster.

 

[kd7nqb]

I actually look at this the opposite way. Being that I AM a bigger guy I would still be worried about a judge deciding that I could have kicked his a++ do to comparative size.

 

[elrod]

That is why Sam Colt called his .45 the "peacemaker"!!!!

 

[JerryM]

There are some who are elderly, and have heart problems. They cannot run or fight. If attacked they must go into the deadly force mode quicker than one in good health. It is not always obvious who they are.

Regards,
Jerry