question about the CZ 99

[lsudave]

Ok, for you guys knowledgeable about this pistol- is there supposed to be a rollpin inside the slide on these? I'm talking about the tiny hole in the slide serrations; I found a schematic and it refers to a lock of some sort.

If I look at it just right, I can see clear through this hole.

I haven't shot it yet, but it seems to be fine dryfiring (with a cap). Is this a spot that would hold the firing pin in place during disassembly, or am I missing some tiny vital piece?

 

[jrmiddleton425]

The hole most likely fits a retaining pin for the firing pin block.

 

[CZ9shooter]

Roll pins are hollow.

I am not super knowledgable on these, but by the looks of it that pin retains the firing pin itself. Then the firing pin retains the block.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

In the actual CZ line (a totally different design to which the "CZ99" is not related), a similar roll pin (and later a doubled roll pin, and still later a solid pin) -- in a similar location-- is used to retain the firing pin. You drive out that pin to free and remove the firing pin. It's an inexpensive alternative to using a firing pin stop/plate, like found in other guns; a separate plate or stop design requires extra machining.

 

[mesinge2]

I have not seen this gun before. A SIG 226 clone?

Does it share parts compatibility with the SIG line?

Sorry, I am just curious about the design and I love learning about new-to-me guns.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

A SIG 226 clone?

It's my understanding, perhaps wrong, that while the CZ 99 (and similar CZ 999) look like a SIG, the design is closer to the Walther P88, and the gun is NOT a clone or even a SIG-pattern gun.

That is not meant as criticism or in any way negative. If parts can be had (if they are even likely to be needed), it seems to be a pretty well-thought-out design.

 

[mesinge2]

Interesting, thanks for the info.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Yup, roll or tension pin.

Retaining the firing pin - normal and you'll see it on the Sig that this is heavily copied from.

CZ99 - "CZ" is for Cverna Zastave or; "Red Flag" from Serbia

CZ75 - "CZ" is for Česká Zbrojovka or; "Czech Arms" from Czechoslovakia or currently; the Czech Republic.


Todd.

 

[mesinge2]

Retaining the firing pin - normal and you'll see it on the Sig that this is heavily copied from.

CZ99 - "CZ" is for Cverna Zastave or; "Red Flag" from Serbia

CZ75 - "CZ" is for Česká Zbrojovka or; "Czech Arms" from Czechoslovakia or currently; the Czech Republic.


Todd.

More great info!

 

[lsudave]

Roll pins are hollow.

I am not super knowledgable on these, but by the looks of it that pin retains the firing pin itself. Then the firing pin retains the block.

Retaining the firing pin - normal and you'll see it on the Sig that this is heavily copied from

Ok... so the fact that the firing pin is retained (doesn't fall out, and functions as it should- it throws a pencil about a foot into the air), means that the pin is present, and hollow (so I can see through it), and thus, all is well... right?

Thanks for the replies.

I think it definitely suggests the SIG in appearance. I remember reading a post on Sigforums (?) where a guy who owned them was fooled by this gun in a store. Kind of like a Star B or Ballester Molina might make you think it's a 1911, or a Taurus might fool you as a Beretta.
Since I'm more of a CZ fan, this is a good substitute for me- the price was right too.

Don't think any parts interchange, although the magazines are said to be able to (with a little dremel action).

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Ok... so the fact that the firing pin is retained (doesn't fall out, and functions as it should- it throws a pencil about a foot into the air), means that the pin is present, and hollow (so I can see through it), and thus, all is well... right?

It would follow that the pin is intact assuming it is not broken forward of the retaining pin and that is unlikely.

The tension pin should be hollow. Some will be a single circumference of the slide hole and some will present as a coil type tension pin but if clean, both should be hollow - just that the later will wrap a couple of times.

These things are tanks. Parts? Can't help you there as I've never known one to need any. Yours, as used as it looks, should have a wonderful, Ruger-like sound to it when working the action without a magazine. Some people will interpret this as being disturbingly loose - not the CZ.

Todd.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Since I'm more of a CZ fan, this is a good substitute for me- the price was right too.

The price was right, and it seems to be a pretty solid gun, but keep in mind that it has LITTLE OR NOTHING in common with the CZs made in the Czech Republic (except a "CZ" in the name....)

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Who's selling these now? Is it the importer or have they filtered through the market already?


Todd.

 

[Kiln]

The price was right, and it seems to be a pretty solid gun, but keep in mind that it has LITTLE OR NOTHING in common with the CZs made in the Czech Republic (except a "CZ" in the name....)

True. These are not actually CZ's in the sense that most people think at all. Totally different company.

As far as I know, Century still imports the CZ99.

Also, roll pins are common for keeping things held together. From your pic it looks like yours has one in place.

 

[mesinge2]

Doesn't EAA import Zastava now?

 

[lsudave]

I think it definitely suggests the SIG in appearance. I remember reading a post on Sigforums (?) where a guy who owned them was fooled by this gun in a store. Kind of like a Star B or Ballester Molina might make you think it's a 1911, or a Taurus might fool you as a Beretta.
Since I'm more of a CZ fan, this is a good substitute for me- the price was right too.

These are not actually CZ's in the sense that most people think at all. Totally different company.

Oh, I know it isn't a "real" CZ! What I meant was this: I'm more of a CZ fan than a Sig fan, so I'm fine with an "almost a Sig". This is my first gun with that type of styling and decocker.

I don't think Century or EAA imports them anymore; I read that Charles Daly dropped them when Zastava signed a deal with Remington (who didn't decide to take the pistol, only rifles). I've seen a few on Classic, and CDI is moving them on Gunbroker; all surplus and worn like mine.

It's a shame, and I think it's a missed opportunity for the market. Zastava is a solid company and they are still making these pistols, so the support would be there with the right deal. I realize the current trend is for polymer carry pieces and not full-sized metal guns, but I think they could still fill a niche (new-production psuedo Sig at a good price, much like the Turks put out new production psuedo CZs at bargain rates).

 

[lsudave]

Who's selling these now? Is it the importer or have they filtered through the market already?


Todd.

Mine is from CDI (Cole's Distributing) on Gunbroker. They have several listed, but mine is one of the Ugly Gun Specials @ $195 + s/h.

Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I'm very pleased with what I got for the price. Frame and slide have matching numbers. Slide has minimal wear on the edges, no scratches or marks. Nice 3 dot sights, appears to be dead night sights. Barrel is clean and very sharp, and I've done some reading and they should be chrome lined. Grips are factory plastic, and still very good condition.
1 magazine, fits very tightly, releases great, feeds snapcaps without issue.

Frame is... better than it looks. Aluminum, in good/very good physical condition, no scratches, very minimal wear down to the metal. You can see some metal showing through at the very front edge on the picture.

Seems to have an extremely tough primer that is light colored, and a black top coat that comes off if you look at it hard. What you see in the picture is the top coat rubbing off, and the primer is intact and smooth. I rubbed the gun down with an alcohol pad, and it came back black, so the final finish is very fragile (I have noted that the other surplus sales had pictures that look the same, especially on the grips).

The magazine appears to be the same as the Beretta 92, with a different notch for the catch. I plan to experiment with one, to see if I can make it work. I've read that they do.

Again, I felt this was a great deal for a solid gun, especially since it won't be a primary "shoot 5 cases a year" pistol. It's big and heavy, but I actually like that.

 

[lsudave]

Here it is next to my Beretta 92FS; for size reference

 

[Walt Sherrill]

If it were my CZ99, I'd probably get some automotive paint remover (Advance Auto Parts, O'Reilly, etc.) and strip the frame with it, and buff it up, and leave it in the white -- assuming it's aluminum. If not aluminm, I'd just cold blue the frame.

 

[lsudave]

Kinda the way I was thinking, but instead of leaving it in the white, gonna go with some Aluminum Black.

 

[lsudave]

Another question: magazines?

Well, I just found the Arex REX zero 1 S reviews, and have to say- if the CZ 99 is a Sig clone, then that has to be the Legion version

But really, they do seem to be the same base, just the Arex is all prettied up.

Do the mags interchange between the Zastava and Arex? I absolutely could go for a couple of theirs, the price it right.

 

[PabloJ]

Kinda the way I was thinking, but instead of leaving it in the white, gonna go with some Aluminum Black.

Would heat resistant matte black paint from spray can used on outdoor grills work? It is sold at most hardware stores.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

As I noted earlier, I'm pretty sure the CZ99 is NOT a SIG clone, but it based somewhat on the SIG frame design and uses some features from the Walther P88. This got me curious, so I started comparing parts diagrams -- which are hard to find.

It does LOOK like a SIG, but looks can be deceiving.

You can find a parts diagram at the Numrich site -- you can't print it, but you can look -- and you can find a P226 or P229 parts diagram at the SIG site. (I could NOT find a parts diagram for the EZ9 which has been offered by EAA.)

You'll see in comparing the parts diagrams that while there is a similarity in some of the parts, there is nothing that would make you think the CZ99 (or similar CZ999) is a clone -- almost every part is different. (Internally, these guns are less like SIGs than all of the CZ-pattern guns are like CZs...)

As for the mags: the CZ99 (and CZ999?) have a mag release notch on the front of the mag, SIGs have them on the sides. Don't know about the Arex REX model -- but looking at the release notch, if you can view that, may be a hint.

PS: I did find a review and comparison of the Arex Rex pistol to the SIG P226, here: http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2016/01/09/arex-rex-zero-1s-pistol/ Again, it has similarities, but apparently isn't a clone. (The review says that SIG sights can be used in the Arex dovetails...) One thing NOT clear from one of the videos, is that at least one Arex model has a safety -- and I can't tell whether that allows a cocked & locked start, which would be a plus -- and whether that model's slide release also works as the decocker (which might be the case if all models don't come equipped with a safety lever.)

.

 

[lsudave]

You can find the EZ9 diagram in the PDF manual, available from both Zastava and Century.
Yes, it isn't quite a Sig clone, I've read that it's more of a blend between the Walther P88 and the Sig.

The Arex Rex Zero looks like someone really prettied up the CZ99, with better finish (not hard to do!), put a rail on it (think the EZ9, or maybe the CZ999 have that), slapped a safety on the frame, removed the right side decocker/slide release lever, and doubled the price.

The magazine has me intrigued; both the Arex and the Zastava use a Beretta/Sig dimension magazine, with a D cut on the front of the magazine. I have not cut my Beretta mags yet, but cycling by hand while holding the magazine in from underneath, it will cycle rounds and hold the slide back when empty. The follower on the CZ appears identical to the Beretta. The magazine fits precisely. If you pressed me to make a guess, I would say they are the same body, spring and follower, with different cuts per their request.

I can't tell if the D cut on the Zastava is exactly where it is on the Arex, but just eyeballing it, it has me extremely curious. It sure does look to be the case.

I wish I could find some of those super-cheap Beretta mags we used to see, I would buy a couple and do some dremel work. Anyone know of the $10 and under Beretta stash?

Added: there is a nice review of the Arex here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i9tw_Uo9L0

Decock/slide release is identical to the CZ99, but not ambidextrous. Push to release the slide, but the hammer is still back. Push again to decock. I assume (but didn't see) the safety can go cocked and locked.

The guy continues to compare it to the Sig, and that is natural; but it's a lot closer to the CZ99. I know "clone" isn't technically the right term, but it's like a Star Super compared to a 1911... you look at the gun from 5 ft away, and that's what you see. Internals don't match, different designs, but the gun definitely evokes the Sig. I think it's meant to.

 

[lsudave]

Would heat resistant matte black paint from spray can used on outdoor grills work? It is sold at most hardware stores.

Someone on Gunboards.com did that, I think. He posted a few pics. He had the wood grips on it.

I think he said he just used some type of textured black spray paint on the frame, left the rest as is.

I've seen forums laughing at that type of finish, but you have to keep perspective on it. Walt Sherrill, who's been replying in this thread, has posted several go-to threads on how to touch up the CZ 75 with Duplicolor, as it's almost an exact match for their finish. Cheers, Walt!

A most common criticism is that the cheap coat isn't very durable. Well, that's fine and dandy- as I have said, the current factory finish wipes off with an alcohol pad. I'm pretty sure that a cheap can of flat or matte black paint is more durable than that, so even the most bargain approach would be an upgrade.