Questions about my BSS

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Gearhead Jim

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Haven't posted here for quite a while, too busy with black guns on the job. But with retirement coming up, it's time to get back to the fun stuff. Simple questions about my Browning BSS (side-by-side 12 ga, Japan (not Korea), selective trigger, choke tubes + backbored + forcing cones + KickEze pad, all by Briley):

1. I'd like to flush out the crud and reoil inside the action, can I get access into the action by removing the buttstock? If so, how?

2. Some doubles are described as having "hammer blocks" as a safety feature, to prevent firing if the gun is dropped. Does the BSS use this system, or something similar? I'd hate to damage the gun by dropping it, but that's not nearly as bad as having the gun go off if dropped.

As always, thanks for the good replies.
 
The BSS is a box-lock action, so it probably has a stock thru-bolt holding the stock to the action.
You would have to remove the recoil pad and see whats under there.

On the trigger, it has an inertia block to re-set the second barrel only after the first one fires.
If you snap the trigger once on an empty chamber, it should not snap again unless there is recoil, (or you bounce the gun off the floor) to re-sit the trigger for the other barrel.

I would suggest that if the inertia trigger is working properly all the time, the gun doesn't need to come apart for cleaning.

There is far more likelihood & risk of damaging the fine inletting of the stock around the action then can be gained by taking it apart to clean it.
Many double-guns of lesser quality have never had the inside of the action cleaned in 75 - 100 years and still work just fine.

As for drop safety, it's a Browning.
They were never in the habit of making unsafe guns.

1224.jpg
rcmodel
 
My comment about the possibility or usefulness of hammer blocks is related to safety, not trigger reset. My BSS definitely has mechanical reset on the triggers, not inertia. After closing the gun on empty chambers, both hammers can be snapped by simply pulling the trigger twice, no bumping the buttstock is required.

I agree with you about taking apart the action, I have no desire to do that. But if I can clean and oil the interior by removing only the buttstock, that sounds like a good idea. The gun is over 10 years old, plenty of time for the original oil to drain away or gum up. Plus firing residue, etc.
 
Thought the BSS was discontinued in 1988?? I'm thinkin your gun is getting to be 20 years old.
 
Well, I bought it used/like new in 1996; a phone call to Browning said it was made 1982-1983. I still think of it as almost new, partly because it's in such good condition and partly because I was "made" almost 40 years before the gun. :D

Thanks for getting me to look up the numbers!
 
Details

I will preface these comments to say that no one person should consider themselves as singled out, since any posted previous comments could just as easily have been posted by another in a different thread. I will consider these as all-encompassing, rather than specific to the posts here.

I am always amused by descriptions of shooters using very old guns, and bragging that it hadn't been apart since it was put together, etc. I might take exception to the statement that "they work just fine", and replace with "they worked the last time it was shot".
How many shooters use guns that are operating with lube over 10 years old inside, without a professional disassembly and thorough cleaning, with fresh lube?

How many of these same people would drive a car with 10 year old oil in the engine, if they found a collector car in a barn in blocks, not been started in 10 years? Only if you were "teched", right?

The first time an old gun fires when it is closed or bumped, due to old crud blocking proper engagement of the sear (like on plenty of old Winchester 97's, for example), I hope all that money you saved on gunsmith bills buys a good doctor or casket or lawyer.

Hosing an action with spray should only be considered an expedient, not a substitute for proper cleaning. Figure that a malfunction on a hunting trip could possibly be aided by a spray-out, but still no overall cure. Spray cannot possibly remove crud trapped inside a blind hole, and even ultrasonic cleaning has the same limitations. I know, I use them here, and have been selling ultrasonic machines for 15 years, besides.

Many mechanisms have been "cleaned" without disassembly over the years, whether by spray or ultrasonic immersion bath. I don't consider that as a substitute for a real cleaning, where parts can also be thoroughly examined for wear conditions to determine if any safety compromise is present. A gunsmith can see things novices might miss or fail to recognize as a potential safety issue.

I had a shooter here with a basically brand new condition 20 year old 1100, and the lube was gunking the innards enough to cause functional problems. Try using spray to remove the old lube inside an action spring tube that is plugged by parts on both ends of 11" of tube.

870d-3.jpg

An ultrasonic application still did not clear all of the crud from this spring assembly.

870d-4.jpg

Even if it had cleaned away every speck, you would have been unaware that the spring was considerably shorter than the replacement shown.
This is one part assembly that is normally not recommended to be disassembled, unless trouble functioning indicates necessity, but see what those imposed limitations can conceal.

Which of these parts look likely to retain crud and cause a future malfunction, if not disassembled? How about the parts beneath the floorplate?

bss101.jpg

Now for the details about the sear assemblies.
These B/SS hammers have no interceptor sear notches (or hammer blocks, etc.)

bss100.jpg

This hammer has the fully-cocked sear notch above an interceptor notch, to catch the hammer if dislodged or insufficiently cocked. See that the other notch is deeper, so more likely to intercept the hammer/sear juncture during an unintended hammer fall. Some designs have a completely separate safety-type hammer catch sear bar that is only removed from hammer interference when the trigger is pulled and simultaneously actuating the hammer block catch.

cit-56.jpg

Sufficient clarification?

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Great post, thanks!

How drop-safe do you consider the BSS setup to be, compared to other systems? I understand your description of the BSS system, but can't quite figure out how well it would work in real life. For example, the half-cock notch on a 1911 pistol looks like it should work great; real life experience indicates that it is nothing close to 100%.
 
I'm still looking for advice on removing the buttstock to inspect/clean/oil the mechanism. There is a screw, partly hidden underneath the tang safety, that might need to be removed. But I don't want to start taking things apart until I understand the procedure. Thanks.
 
I'll tear apart, and clean, repair etc. my old used 870 and any other inexpensive guns I have. But if I had this one, I'd definitely want a professional to do this. You might only need this done every few years but all it would take is one buggered screw head, a slipped tool and scratched metal, etc. to make me feel really bad. I'd spend a few $$ for a professional job.
 
We probably agree. I have no intention of tearing the gun apart, just want to remove the buttstock so I get a look into the receiver for possible swab-out and reoiling. The gun went to Briley a couple of years ago, they do first rate work but it's expensive, time consuming, and slightly risky to send out the gun very often.

That little screw under the safety had started to come loose, it took me over an hour to custom grind a screwdriver so i could tighten it without buggering up the slot. I do NOT want to repeat that task for every screw on the gun, nor do i want to spend big bucks for a screwdriver set that will fit them all. And I still can't figure out how the receiver comes apart; if I can't see into it with the stock removed, then it definitely goes back to Briley.
 
Assuming (yes I know) the stock is mounted the same as my old 325, remove recoil pad,and then the through stock bolt.
The stock should just slide away, but usually needs some (very!!!) gentle persuasion.
Some box locks need to have the trigger guard removed, if it mounts to the stock at the rear.

Neil.
 
The rear of my trigger guard is screwed into the stock, so that would definitely need to come loose. I'm not sure about the small screw under the safety- it feels like it's threaded into steel, not wood. But i don't want to guess wrong!
 
That will need to come out as well, but first......
I have never seen or heard of a Browning side by side, other than the BSL.
The BSL is a sidelock, and removing the stock is a completely different operation.
Can you post a few pics ??
Also if it's a sidelock, you can remove the locks for cleaning, but be careful.

Neil.
 
The BSS ("Browning Side by Side"; clever designation :D ) was made for Browning in Japan and later in Korea from about the late 1970's to late 1980's. Early guns had a single non-selective trigger and were not approved for steel shot, later ones had a selector button by the trigger and are steel shot approved. I got a late Japanese gun by dumb luck. The Korean guns are said to be comparatively crude.

12 & 20 ga. 26-28-30" barrels.

It is a boxlock design but there was a sidelock version cataloged, not sure if any were actually sold.

It has automatic ejectors/extractors, automatic-on safety. Like most shotguns, heavier than the catalog admits; my 12 ga listed about 7.5 lbs but was actually 7.8 before mods. Now at 7.6 lbs. See my first post for list of mods. It has a moderate amount of attractive scrollwork on the barrels and receiver, my only change would be a silver receiver instead of blue.
Personally, I think it is a very attractive and well made SxS; hard to find that kind of gun 10+ years ago when I bought this one, especially for under a thou. It's not for sale!

Sorry about the lack of pics, still haven't learned how to do that.
 
My BSS is my all time favorite shotgun. It utilizes an inertia block to prevent inadvertant doubling, but the single selective trigger is pure mechanical. The safety blocks the sears from moving to release the hammers, but like any safety it can fail, especially if there is crud in the sear/hammer engagement slots. They were made for Browning by Miroku (sp) in Japan until that factory ceased shotgun production, and I was not aware they were ever made in Korea or anywhere else. I was trying to talk Browning into a 28 gauge at the time production ceased. When I bought it I told my ex wife that $450 was an investment. Since guns like mine are now going for $2100, it appears I didn't lie after all.
In order to remove the stock you need to remove the stock screw and the trigger guard, and even then as I recall you cannot get to the action parts very well at all. I have never even found any screwdriver set that fit the screws. I would try to find a local gunsmith who isn't 3 years backlogged to disassemble and clean it. I took mine apart once myself, and I bought several stainless steel dinner knives that I ground and shaped to use as screwdrivers with some help from a tape wrapped 6" Crescent wrench and a lot of Kroil. I was sweating bullets all the way, and even though I did not screw up, I decided never again.
I like your barrel work. Pre-steel/non-tox I had that done to a couple of guns and was very pleased with the results.
Good luck.
 
Thanks for the comments and info. I'm no wizard on double guns and don't understand your part about the gun having an inertia block but mechanical trigger. I know that mine can be dry-fired by simply pulling the trigger twice, no need to bump the stock. Can you explain further?

My understanding is that the Korean guns were assembled in Korea from left over Japanese parts. I've never seen one but others claim the difference in fitting is immediately obvious. Certainly, the workmanship on my particular gun is impeccable.

A SxS is probably not the best gun for trap, but I like shooting this one. I'm wondering how it would stand up to heavy use; the basic construction looks very robust but small parts may be another story, and (unlike a Remington 1100/11-87/870), I can't fix it muself.

Are these guns prone to breaking the firing pins if dry-fired? I always dry-fire any gun to uncock it before putting it away, and don't use snap caps.

After reading your story, maybe I'll just send it back to Briley every few years!
 
You shouldn't dry fire it, the shoulder on the firing pin will make contact with the back of the breach face, and will eventually throw up a burr.
It also stresses the firing pin in ways that were not intended.
Best to be safe and use snap caps, or with barrels off, pull the trigger while holding a soft coin firmly over the pin to be fired.
Then replace the barrels and fore end, gun is now de cocked, and will be fine unless you open the action again.

Neil.
 
The Beretta Silver Hawk manual suggests using snap caps, then removing forearm, opening barrel, removing snap caps, closing barrel, replacing forearm resulting in uncocked shotgun. I do this this with my low budget Baikal and it works dandy. Also can simply remove barrel after dropping hammers if you want to store the gun disassembled. I've never tried the soft coin method but the dollar is really soft right now, maybe it would work. :)
 
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