Ranger LEO Ammo Query

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HMMurdock

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I'm almost embarassed to ask this, but felt this was an appropriate place for it.

I got a new Sig P220 .45 and, I'm sure like many of us, I have a huge mish-mash of various types of ammunition. I am considering carrying rounds from a box of Winchester Ranger LEO .45s that a guy at a gun show sold me a year or two ago, but never did because they're marked "law enforcement only." Hello, so are the mags on my Hk but I realize that particular ban as passed. Even though I'm a fugitive recovery agent in the bail bond business and technically not a Law Enforcement Officer, are there any restrictions as to who can carry these Ranger LEO rounds?

Just thought I'd check, if nothing else it'd make an educational discussion for the forum.

As always, thanks guys.

TRL
 
The "law enforcement only" marking isn't a legal marking. IIRC the "Law Enforcement Only" designation is more of a marketing too. I was told that Winchester makes its distributors/dealers sign an agreement that it will only be sold to LEOs under the threat of losing their wholesale purchasing status if the break that agreement. I know quite a few channels to purchase the ammo (in fact it is what I carry in my CCW guns). There is nothing illegal about using it. Similar thing with the magazines.
 
Historically, the LE only restriction was due to the higher pressures at which the ammunition tended to be loaded. The companies did not have to worry about LE guns (since they had liability waivers in the contracts) but did have to worry about non-LEs using the ammunition. So, the markings served as a way to eliminate non-LE exposure and access to the ammunition.

That isn't so much a concern now,but some of the LEO ammunition does not have the excise tax paid on it, because it is going to an exempt entity, namely law enforcement. That is the current justification for the markings. Get the boxes with the tax stamps and you are good to go.
 
That's about it :)

I don't find it to be any more accurate, etc for the price difference. For my part, I really like the Win Personal Defense HPs. The HP is near 9mm in diameter...it's a nice round. But, regarding your question, it is legal...at least in Miichigan.
 
I don't find it to be any more accurate, etc for the price difference.
Click to expand...

I don't know about "accurate" but how about "as high in velocity?" I carry the Ranger 9mm +P+ 127 grain SXT in my P7M8. It gets me as close to .357 SIG as I'm going to get out of a 9mm. And does it with an effective bullet design.

Gregg
 
New Ranger Questions

Perhaps this should go in another thread, but it does raise good questions aside from legality. --Marketing aside, is there anything special about the Rangers? For self defense or --my purposes of serving bail warrants, what is the highest suggested ammunition? Accuracy? Velocity? Stopping power? And how do the Rangers stack up? I know this has all been beaten to death, but... does anyone have any input?

TRL
 
Ranger Ts are considered top of the line in defensive hollowpoints by many agencies and instructors. They are designed to reliably expand through a wide range of velocities (so they will operate equally well from compact pistols to duty weapons) and through various barriers (i.e. whether going through bare skin or denims), while also providing the penetration capacity needed for service weapons (12-18 inches).
 
Can't speak of the handgun ammo, I've tried the Ranger low-recoil buckshot & slugs in my shotgun with very good results.

Buzz, I don't think I've ever seen an ammo box with a tax stamp.
 
legal in Cali

the only places I would be careful in is NJ, my brother is LE
in NY and he has been told not to carry jhp in NJ
 
Nearly every box I've purchased in TN has the individual tax stamps. Your state laws might be different in how/when they are applied.
 
CDNN has it in 40S&W,both 155 and 180 grain JHP.Buy 10 boxes at $12.99/box,and shipping is free...:D
 
Perhaps this should go in another thread, but it does raise good questions aside from legality. --Marketing aside, is there anything special about the Rangers? For self defense or --my purposes of serving bail warrants, what is the highest suggested ammunition? Accuracy? Velocity? Stopping power? And how do the Rangers stack up? I know this has all been beaten to death, but... does anyone have any input?
Click to expand...

As I understand it, Ranger SXTs are basically the old Black Talons with the black paint removed. When all the negative hipe about Black Talons came out Winchester pulled them from sheves, washed off the black paint and began selling/marketing them to law enforcement.
 
Evil Bullets

FYI-
I have original Black Talons listed in the classified section for sale.
 
Just curious as I've never had the opportunity to closely examine the ammo. Is the RT headstamped or externally different in any other way (outside of the box) than the regular R?
 
The Ranger ammo is great stuff. It is what our Sheriff's Dept carries. It is the Black Talons with a slightly new design. The ammo is triple checked before leaving the factory (WWB is checked once). Sealed primer and bullet, plated case, and the 230g .45 +P goes out about 900+fps. Hot stuff! It's what I carry in all my CCW guns.

Enjoy. :)

Justin
 
last catalog for sportsmansguide.com has them selling current manufacture RANGER ammo to the general public. So i dont see how its a restricted item.. Hell they renamed the black talon so it could be sold to everybody..
 
last catalog for sportsmansguide.com has them selling current manufacture RANGER ammo to the general public. So i dont see how its a restricted item.. Hell they renamed the black talon so it could be sold to everybody..
Click to expand...

Actually they did the direct opposite. When Black Talons first came out it was offered to the general public but its uniqe talon feature (which allegedly made it saw through your body) and it black paint (which was confused with the infamous and equally absurd teflon coated "cop killers") drew heavy criticism from gun banners that were throwing around their usual "streets of blood" arguments. To avoid law suits and possibly heavy anti-gun legislation Winchester recalled its entire Black Talon line and discontinued it.

Next they removed all the paint, repackaged the same ammo, and marketed it to law enforcement agencies as the best in self-defense ammo. To help strengthen their claims of its superior performance, and at the same time avoid rasing scrutiny from gun banners again, they labeled it as a "Law Enforcement Only" grade ammo and had venders sign agreements not to sell it to the general public. As time has passed, fewer and fewer venders continue to restrict this ammo.
 
Sportsman's Guide currently has the .40S&W on its website. I wonder why both they and CDNN have .40 but nothing else?
 
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