leadcounsel
member
I didn't want to derail the conversation in the NFA page about the legality of the SBR left unattended in the vehicle... so started this new thread.
I'm definitely open for re-consideration of my thought process...
My personal criteria, absent some major change of events, is weighing risk/benefit and likelihood of scenarios. My criteria for a weapon in the car is legality, practicality, accessibility, ease of use, cost/difficulty to replace.
For many years, I had searched for the best "truck gun." It had to be reliable, affordable, easy to replace. Such guns might be a lever action .30-30, or an SKS, or even a bolt gun Mosin Nagant for instance. A small investment financially, easy to replace if stolen/damaged (accident, for instance). But because I worked on a military base for many years, the concept never came to useful fruition due to the military rules prohibiting person weapons.
But, is a long gun PRACTICAL in any sense, locked in your truck? Is it worth the risk/reward?
Having been the victim of theft from a vehicle at least twice in my life - I realized it only takes a moment for a thief to break a window, pop a trunk, etc. I also know others who have had their cars broken into and items stolen. Car theft is also a huge industry. Vehicles also get towed and impounded regularly... now the tow truck driver has your rifle/shotgun...
I can definitely see the merit of a handgun in immediate reach to defend against a car-jacking or other immediate threat. Handguns are also easily portable so you can take it with you into your destination typically. Self defense requires a mental state of immediate serious harm. Not FUTURE serious harm. If you have the time/ability to get in the trunk to produce a rifle, one might argue that the threat wasn't that immediate and you could have simply left the area or driven away.
So, from a LEGAL standpoint, perhaps the OP in the SBR thread was/is asking the wrong question when the real question should be "is it legal to go to the trunk, open it, then produce any long gun for 'self defense'." I suggest the answer is probably almost always "no."
Under what situation, realistically, are civilian folks needing a long gun in their trunk? I'm NOT criticizing. Educate me. In fact, I can envision some wild scenarios .... but I'd like to hear rationale for the need (note this is not a RIGHT versus NEED attack - it's an honest intellectual question from a very pro-gun individual) for a longgun locked away in the trunk? In my view it seems like asking to have it stolen or have your life complicated.
Let's look at some wild scenarios. Take 9/11. That was the biggest and most crazy attack in 70 years. Not a single person (for which I am aware) in NYC or the nation needed a long gun in their car that day (relating to the attack), and carrying one around during flight would have almost certainly drawn detainment. How about the Oklahoma city bombing? Same thing. We see earthquakes, hurricanes, forest fires, etc. all the time. I don't recall seeing or reading or hearing of any stories where violence erupted to the point that folks needed their AR15s while they were fleeing the event. There was the beltway sniper. During the traffic stops, having an AR15 on the ceiling of the Jeep or in the trunk during a traffic stop/search would have resulted in an arrest and confiscation until you were hopefully cleared. Any of the public shootings we've had - Movie Theaters, Malls, Schools, Military Bases (probably illegal anyway to have it in your car), etc. - you don't have immediate access to the weapon, nor would you want to go get it and return and be a civilian running around with an AR15 because you could easily be the TARGET or SUSPECT by law enforcement (detracting from the real threat, confusing the situation by playing cop...). Finally, let's say you're at Home Depot and there's a shooting in the store or on the grounds, police show up, big investigation follows. Every car in that parking lot may be temporarily seized as evidence on the spot. NO cars allowed to be removed, nor any contents. So now your SBR or longgun is sitting in your car in the parking lot indefinitely and may be searched and confiscated. Perhaps during a rural traffic stop, police see the rifle and know of some poaching in the area, and think you're out poaching?
As we enter an era where the US is almost certainly subject to more attacks using Improvised Explosive Devices, car bombs, shootings at malls and such, NBC attacks, etc. having a long gun in the trunk may be a feel good step, but perhaps ineffective against these threats or even counter productive to your own freedom of movement (say you break down or have to otherwise leave your vehicle unattended somewhere in a high-theft likelihood situation) - and you may have to abandon your $1500 setup in your car and move out on foot regardless, thereby disarming yourself of your favorite gun temporarily.
SBRs are legally complex items, difficult and costly to replace if stolen, and definitely on the list of items for thieves...
In short, I can see overwhelming reasons (aside from the OP question about the legality of the weapon in the trunk as you're not with it) to NOT have a long gun in the car (theft, uselessness, complication, legally impractical for self defense, etc.).
I can see only a few reasons (many of which are on the far end of improbable to highly unlikely) one may feel the need - the most likely is perhaps a road trip where you intend to keep it for overnight defensive purposes, and bring it into your hotel room at night.
Anyone care to help me understand their need for a long gun in the car?
I'm definitely open for re-consideration of my thought process...
My personal criteria, absent some major change of events, is weighing risk/benefit and likelihood of scenarios. My criteria for a weapon in the car is legality, practicality, accessibility, ease of use, cost/difficulty to replace.
For many years, I had searched for the best "truck gun." It had to be reliable, affordable, easy to replace. Such guns might be a lever action .30-30, or an SKS, or even a bolt gun Mosin Nagant for instance. A small investment financially, easy to replace if stolen/damaged (accident, for instance). But because I worked on a military base for many years, the concept never came to useful fruition due to the military rules prohibiting person weapons.
But, is a long gun PRACTICAL in any sense, locked in your truck? Is it worth the risk/reward?
Having been the victim of theft from a vehicle at least twice in my life - I realized it only takes a moment for a thief to break a window, pop a trunk, etc. I also know others who have had their cars broken into and items stolen. Car theft is also a huge industry. Vehicles also get towed and impounded regularly... now the tow truck driver has your rifle/shotgun...
I can definitely see the merit of a handgun in immediate reach to defend against a car-jacking or other immediate threat. Handguns are also easily portable so you can take it with you into your destination typically. Self defense requires a mental state of immediate serious harm. Not FUTURE serious harm. If you have the time/ability to get in the trunk to produce a rifle, one might argue that the threat wasn't that immediate and you could have simply left the area or driven away.
So, from a LEGAL standpoint, perhaps the OP in the SBR thread was/is asking the wrong question when the real question should be "is it legal to go to the trunk, open it, then produce any long gun for 'self defense'." I suggest the answer is probably almost always "no."
Under what situation, realistically, are civilian folks needing a long gun in their trunk? I'm NOT criticizing. Educate me. In fact, I can envision some wild scenarios .... but I'd like to hear rationale for the need (note this is not a RIGHT versus NEED attack - it's an honest intellectual question from a very pro-gun individual) for a longgun locked away in the trunk? In my view it seems like asking to have it stolen or have your life complicated.
Let's look at some wild scenarios. Take 9/11. That was the biggest and most crazy attack in 70 years. Not a single person (for which I am aware) in NYC or the nation needed a long gun in their car that day (relating to the attack), and carrying one around during flight would have almost certainly drawn detainment. How about the Oklahoma city bombing? Same thing. We see earthquakes, hurricanes, forest fires, etc. all the time. I don't recall seeing or reading or hearing of any stories where violence erupted to the point that folks needed their AR15s while they were fleeing the event. There was the beltway sniper. During the traffic stops, having an AR15 on the ceiling of the Jeep or in the trunk during a traffic stop/search would have resulted in an arrest and confiscation until you were hopefully cleared. Any of the public shootings we've had - Movie Theaters, Malls, Schools, Military Bases (probably illegal anyway to have it in your car), etc. - you don't have immediate access to the weapon, nor would you want to go get it and return and be a civilian running around with an AR15 because you could easily be the TARGET or SUSPECT by law enforcement (detracting from the real threat, confusing the situation by playing cop...). Finally, let's say you're at Home Depot and there's a shooting in the store or on the grounds, police show up, big investigation follows. Every car in that parking lot may be temporarily seized as evidence on the spot. NO cars allowed to be removed, nor any contents. So now your SBR or longgun is sitting in your car in the parking lot indefinitely and may be searched and confiscated. Perhaps during a rural traffic stop, police see the rifle and know of some poaching in the area, and think you're out poaching?
As we enter an era where the US is almost certainly subject to more attacks using Improvised Explosive Devices, car bombs, shootings at malls and such, NBC attacks, etc. having a long gun in the trunk may be a feel good step, but perhaps ineffective against these threats or even counter productive to your own freedom of movement (say you break down or have to otherwise leave your vehicle unattended somewhere in a high-theft likelihood situation) - and you may have to abandon your $1500 setup in your car and move out on foot regardless, thereby disarming yourself of your favorite gun temporarily.
SBRs are legally complex items, difficult and costly to replace if stolen, and definitely on the list of items for thieves...
In short, I can see overwhelming reasons (aside from the OP question about the legality of the weapon in the trunk as you're not with it) to NOT have a long gun in the car (theft, uselessness, complication, legally impractical for self defense, etc.).
I can see only a few reasons (many of which are on the far end of improbable to highly unlikely) one may feel the need - the most likely is perhaps a road trip where you intend to keep it for overnight defensive purposes, and bring it into your hotel room at night.
Anyone care to help me understand their need for a long gun in the car?
