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Realistic usefulness of the "truck gun"
- Thread starter leadcounsel
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I am guessing this thread was aimed at guys like me. I live in a suburb of a big city and commute into downtown every weekday. I will not use my truck gun to put down a coyote and I am not likely to run into a meth lab by mistake. I park in my garage at night and in a private parking garage while at work.
I keep a kel tec sub2k in my trunk. I chose it because it takes the same magazines/ammo as my edc. I keep it folded in my "emergency" backpack that is always in the back as well.
I've been caught in mass evacuations (from hurricanes - 18 hours in the car only traveling about 150 milesof pure gridlock) and stranded in a few storms where I used to live. Those rare situations are one reason I leave a rifle in the back.
Another simple reason is that I like to make unplanned stops at the range on my way home from work. With my edc and the sub2k using the same mags I can practice with both whenever I get the urge.
If the sub2k gets stolen I am not going to cry about the $ lost. It was not an expensive purchase. The cliche "rather have it..." line is true...I don't want the lack of having that rifle to be the thing that keeps me from not making it home to my family one day. So it stays until I can think of a better option.
I keep a kel tec sub2k in my trunk. I chose it because it takes the same magazines/ammo as my edc. I keep it folded in my "emergency" backpack that is always in the back as well.
I've been caught in mass evacuations (from hurricanes - 18 hours in the car only traveling about 150 milesof pure gridlock) and stranded in a few storms where I used to live. Those rare situations are one reason I leave a rifle in the back.
Another simple reason is that I like to make unplanned stops at the range on my way home from work. With my edc and the sub2k using the same mags I can practice with both whenever I get the urge.
If the sub2k gets stolen I am not going to cry about the $ lost. It was not an expensive purchase. The cliche "rather have it..." line is true...I don't want the lack of having that rifle to be the thing that keeps me from not making it home to my family one day. So it stays until I can think of a better option.
d2wing
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Too much lawyer, not enough man. This country was built on people willing to take risks. If I have to choose between your silly reasoning and being able to defend myself, no matter how remote the possibility I will choose being prepared. I don't know if you are being the devil's advocate or an anti in disguise. You are making the argument that we need a reason to carry a gun. I condemn your argument as an anti in disguise. I carry because I am an American. I don't need a reason. Go infringe someone else.
d2wing
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The valid justification is not your call. It is mine. Like other anti's you insist we need a reason to hold our rights. We do not. This is how anti's deceive, by making us justify the right we have. By making it an argument
over justification. Beware friends.
over justification. Beware friends.
FrankCastleThePunisher
Member
In this day and age, there are far more scenario's where one is likely to need a truck/car gun. It's better to have one and not need it than not have one and need it. It also doesn't hurt to keep a bug out bag in your vehicle.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Actually, I don't think his query or hypothesis says anything like "anti in disguise."
I pointed out already that this is clearly a right we have. No one's debating that, so this isn't about RIGHTS. Many things we might do we have the right to do, and yet may be anywhere on a spectrum that spans from really smart, to pointless, to really bad ideas.
We shouldn't be so afraid that we refuse to ask ourselves questions like this. Fear is a bad reason to avoid a frank discussion.
If you weigh the pros and cons and you find that you need (or might need, or could need, or might realistically use) a long gun in a random, unexpected way and that need outweighs whatever negative possibilities might come, simply explain. Let's face it, none of us would be HAPPY to have a gun stolen out of a car, or left in a car that was stolen. That's a bad thing on a couple of levels. If that remote risk of loss and allowing another weapon into the black market doesn't compel you more than the also remote risk of finding yourself in need of a long gun on some random day, just say so.
When someone challenges you, you don't have to call them names and act like a field mouse who sees a hawk. Just stand up and manfully answer the question without emotion.
leadcounsel
member
Total nonsense, every sentence.
1. 60% of the signators of the US Constitution were lawyers - a noble profession indeed.
2. The nation was built by men conquering other men, taking and enslaving and warring. Please study history. It wasn't by some suburbanite with a truck gun in his BMW X5. Historically speaking, we live in the safest time for any American and probably any person in any civilization, with real violent crime being extremely low in most of the nation.
3. If you knew me, I'm about as pro-gun advocate as a person can be. There are almost zero gun laws I agree with, with the exception of perhaps some at the very extreme end of the spectrum that are universally supported (like no guns for prison inmates kinda thing).
4. I have never made the argument that you NEED a reason to carry a gun. Buy a vowel. Yes, the possibility AND practical legal ability are so remote... so incredibly remote, that you will NEED and have access to said long gun.
5. "I carry because I'm an American." This isn't about carry. I too carry a HANDGUN. Handgun carry is totally logical. It's immediately under your control and on your person to stop an imminent deadly threat. That's not what THIS topic is about. This is about a truck/trunk gun, and the dialogue on whether the IDEA of keeping one is a good one - regardless of the right to (which I support to be clear). Is it logical, does it satisfy the honest risk/reward scrutiny, etc. ??
6. I'M NOT TRYING TO INFRINGE ON ANYBODY. CAN I MAKE MYSELF ANY MORE CLEAR. :banghead:
So, WHAT are you defending yourself from - name a single realistic plausible scenario. Please!!!!
PS- I see you're a veteran, as am I, and I respect that.
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Nom de Forum
Member
Considering the posts in other threads leadcouncil posted I doubt he is an anti-gunner. But he sure is a lawyer, because his post style reminds me of the lawyers in my life every week. Nothing wrong with being a lawyer, but being a lawyer also doesn't make every thing right. There do seem to be a high percentage of lawyers who act as if nobody without a law degree could possibly have sufficient critical thinking skills. I am not saying leadcouncil is one of these lawyers, but I'll bet if he decided to argue the opposite opinion he would be just as skilled at trying to persuade us. Hey leadcouncil, you are right the odds of gravely needing a truck gun are small in comparison to having it stolen from or with your vehicle but so are the odds for most people having their gun stolen from or with their vehicle. Definitely worth the risk in comparison to the possible consequences of not having a gun.
d2wing
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Any possibility. Although I do not expect to use a rifle in self defense, I consider a rifle a hunting weapon. None the less, I have been in urban as well as rural situations when possession of an AR would be most prudent. Like when in Memphis I went to see a tourist attraction and it got late when I returned to my RV. The other tourists had left and I had to walk through crowds of panhandlers all asking me for money and some were threatening. Another time a group of kids that appeared to be gang bangers invaded the area I was parked and started a party. I confronted them and an argue began. I chose to be unarmed but had a loaded AR ready in my RV just in case. There are times I wandered into areas I should not have and was comforted by weapons. I agree your biggest danger is cell-phones. It is likely that you will never need a rifle. But in the event that something should happen it would be better to be prepared than not prepared. Each of us get's to decide what we need and for what. I am glad you clarified yourself. I take your statements at face value.
leadcounsel
member
See, an RV gun is not what I have in mind when I say truck/trunk gun.
An RV is a mobile home. You sleep there, watch TV there, eat there... It makes more sense because you aren't driving. You are stationary in a fixed semi-permanent position. You can wield a long gun in your RV (albeit a tight space).
It's essentially traveling from A to B, and staying overnight. I often carry a long gun with me when I am going on a road trip - for the tent site, hotel room, or whatnot.
It isn't the commuter car/truck I envision when the topic of a truck/trunk gun arises.
An RV is a mobile home. You sleep there, watch TV there, eat there... It makes more sense because you aren't driving. You are stationary in a fixed semi-permanent position. You can wield a long gun in your RV (albeit a tight space).
It's essentially traveling from A to B, and staying overnight. I often carry a long gun with me when I am going on a road trip - for the tent site, hotel room, or whatnot.
It isn't the commuter car/truck I envision when the topic of a truck/trunk gun arises.
leadcounsel
member
I've actually had handguns stolen from my vehicle a decade ago. One in my "go" bag - actually just a backpack with some stuff in it including my handgun, and my "truck" gun - a revolver from my glove box. It was a terrible experience.
Having experienced it, I'm more cautious and more smart - for instance, I don't leave the gym bag with a handgun in plain view. But I think the risk/reward may still tip in favor of having a handgun accessible as a driver or passenger in a vehicle - to defend against a car jacking or similar imminent treat. A handgun is immediately deployable and effective against an immediate threat. I've even trained in this tactic in the military at Gryphon Group mobile force protection school in Florida.
But the long gun - not so much. You can't access it if/when you need it in the urgent-need situation. I've also trained in long gun use in vehicles during armed conflict. Problem is, downtown Seattle isn't exactly armed conflict. Nor is rural Wyoming. So basically you can't use it when you might need it, and carrying it with you may be itself problematic, and leaving it is risky. You've basically just become the pizza delivery guy for your truck gun. So what do you DO with your long gun if you're vehicle is stranded? Leave it there unprotected or take it with you? So now you're carrying your long gun - this opens your world up to all sorts of possible unwanted attention.
This war vet got basically harassed and arrested for carrying an AR15 on a roadside hike with his boyscout son in TEXAS! http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...cer-pulled-gun-on-him-in-front-of-boy-scouts/
Charges still pending.
The ideas here have been pause for thought - such as being stranded in a dangerous area, having to hike a distance, etc... but I just wonder what are you going to do with your AR 15 when you GET to the repair shop. Just walk in with your rifle slung like "What are you looking at? I need a tow. Who wants to go with me to get my car?" There's a fair chance you may be met with odd looks, hostility, or law enforcement. Conversely, a pistol is going to offer you adequate defense, less cumbersome on your trek, and be concealable for any future encounters with the 99.999999% of humans who are non-threatening.
Having experienced it, I'm more cautious and more smart - for instance, I don't leave the gym bag with a handgun in plain view. But I think the risk/reward may still tip in favor of having a handgun accessible as a driver or passenger in a vehicle - to defend against a car jacking or similar imminent treat. A handgun is immediately deployable and effective against an immediate threat. I've even trained in this tactic in the military at Gryphon Group mobile force protection school in Florida.
But the long gun - not so much. You can't access it if/when you need it in the urgent-need situation. I've also trained in long gun use in vehicles during armed conflict. Problem is, downtown Seattle isn't exactly armed conflict. Nor is rural Wyoming. So basically you can't use it when you might need it, and carrying it with you may be itself problematic, and leaving it is risky. You've basically just become the pizza delivery guy for your truck gun. So what do you DO with your long gun if you're vehicle is stranded? Leave it there unprotected or take it with you? So now you're carrying your long gun - this opens your world up to all sorts of possible unwanted attention.
This war vet got basically harassed and arrested for carrying an AR15 on a roadside hike with his boyscout son in TEXAS! http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...cer-pulled-gun-on-him-in-front-of-boy-scouts/
Charges still pending.
The ideas here have been pause for thought - such as being stranded in a dangerous area, having to hike a distance, etc... but I just wonder what are you going to do with your AR 15 when you GET to the repair shop. Just walk in with your rifle slung like "What are you looking at? I need a tow. Who wants to go with me to get my car?" There's a fair chance you may be met with odd looks, hostility, or law enforcement. Conversely, a pistol is going to offer you adequate defense, less cumbersome on your trek, and be concealable for any future encounters with the 99.999999% of humans who are non-threatening.
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, good, we have a few examples to explore.
If they'd jumped you or produced weapons, could you whistle and have your AR-15 come at the gallop to save you? Was someone else inside covering your butt with that rifle while you went out to argue with a crowd of urban toughs?
I'm sure there's more to these stories than you've posted because I doubt you're suggesting that any of these folks would have simultaneously presented an immediate lethal threat AND been obliging enough to let you go get your rifle from your RV.
...
There are a distressing number of stories of "defenders" who went up for felony charges because they thought that gun back at the house, or out in my car, or back at the RV should be used to end a disagreement or chase off someone when the initial altercation was over long before they put their hands on that gun, and coming back to the fight armed was the most wrong-headed choice they could have possibly made.
So when someone says they are comforted by a gun they have stashed someplace else it makes me wonder a) what good it will possibly do right in the moment of need, and b) what they intend to do with it if they DO go get it.
How was a rifle stored in your RV of help in the situation of walking among a crowd of panhandlers? If the panhandlers were to turn violent, do you think you would have gotten to your RV? They'd let you unlock and enter your RV, but then ramp up their hostility after you're inside and you'd need to use the long gun?
Uh, full stop. You did what? Tom Givens has a really illustrative example of exactly that kind of thing and his former student ended up in severe legal trouble after having to shoot the guys he confronted.
Just in case of what?
If they'd jumped you or produced weapons, could you whistle and have your AR-15 come at the gallop to save you? Was someone else inside covering your butt with that rifle while you went out to argue with a crowd of urban toughs?
I'm sure there's more to these stories than you've posted because I doubt you're suggesting that any of these folks would have simultaneously presented an immediate lethal threat AND been obliging enough to let you go get your rifle from your RV.
As these stories show, we don't want to prop up the idea of a "truck/trunk gun" as more of a security blanket than it truly is. That's why I'm a bit adamant when folks say, "rather have it and not need it ..." and such things. I want to know what they were REALLY going to do with that gun, and how, that made it a useful tool for the purpose they're claiming.
...
There are a distressing number of stories of "defenders" who went up for felony charges because they thought that gun back at the house, or out in my car, or back at the RV should be used to end a disagreement or chase off someone when the initial altercation was over long before they put their hands on that gun, and coming back to the fight armed was the most wrong-headed choice they could have possibly made.
So when someone says they are comforted by a gun they have stashed someplace else it makes me wonder a) what good it will possibly do right in the moment of need, and b) what they intend to do with it if they DO go get it.
d2wing
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When I have been attacked by thugs I have been able to rely on my physical ability to escape in which case I could retreat to my vehicle and protect my self from further attack. I have been in those situations. I did not need the gun in either instance I mentioned, I usually know what I am doing and what to expect and how to handle it. You may not believe it. That I was successful should suffice. With or without a gun I am experienced in confrontation. Sometimes having a gun is a needless escalation but having one in sprinting distance is prudent. Make your own choices. To criticize mine is ignorant on your part.
To the OP. I said before that a pistol is much better in a car as an urban defense weapon but you must not have read that. If that is your point, I agree.
Are we done now? Watching the race bye.
To the OP. I said before that a pistol is much better in a car as an urban defense weapon but you must not have read that. If that is your point, I agree.
Are we done now? Watching the race bye.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I'd love to haul around a long gun in my vehicle, but it just isn't practical. I don't have the space and I haven't figured out a real scenario where I would need it on a daily basis. Pulling up stakes and moving somewhere else for a week or more, like an evacuation, then sure.
I do almost always have a handgun in my vehicle for easy access while driving in addition to my carry gun.
As far as my whole vehicle being stolen, yep it could happen. They'd get much more than my handgun. They'd get my work tools, laptop, and more. In fact, when I had a wreck out of town on a job, I willingly had my vehicle towed back to my home on a flat bed wrecker due to the contents in my vehicle.
Now years ago when I had limited funds I made do with the firearms I had and one of those was a 12 gauge shotgun. That particular gun got cut down to just longer than legal minimums and did become my truck gun for several years. However, this was due to using what I had without spending money I didn't have on buying a handgun specifically for vehicle use. That shotgun's sole intent was protection from humans. It was not meant for hunting or fun.
For the last two decades, I work in good areas and bad areas. Whether urban, suburban, in my city, or in another city hours away. A pair of handguns is my choice for my daily travel over any long gun.
I do almost always have a handgun in my vehicle for easy access while driving in addition to my carry gun.
As far as my whole vehicle being stolen, yep it could happen. They'd get much more than my handgun. They'd get my work tools, laptop, and more. In fact, when I had a wreck out of town on a job, I willingly had my vehicle towed back to my home on a flat bed wrecker due to the contents in my vehicle.
Now years ago when I had limited funds I made do with the firearms I had and one of those was a 12 gauge shotgun. That particular gun got cut down to just longer than legal minimums and did become my truck gun for several years. However, this was due to using what I had without spending money I didn't have on buying a handgun specifically for vehicle use. That shotgun's sole intent was protection from humans. It was not meant for hunting or fun.
For the last two decades, I work in good areas and bad areas. Whether urban, suburban, in my city, or in another city hours away. A pair of handguns is my choice for my daily travel over any long gun.
d2wing
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Oh and if those thugs had chosen to kill me, and I could not escape and me being without my gun I would have been dead. Talk about remote possibilities. Instead, unlucky for you I am here being a pain in the rear.
Which brings up a good point. If you do not have the courage to go without a gun and risk a beating, will you have the courage and good sense to use a gun wisely or at all. I have seen guys panic at the moment of truth. On the other hand, if enough of us are armed the less likely we will ever use our guns. Ok I really have quit typing.
Which brings up a good point. If you do not have the courage to go without a gun and risk a beating, will you have the courage and good sense to use a gun wisely or at all. I have seen guys panic at the moment of truth. On the other hand, if enough of us are armed the less likely we will ever use our guns. Ok I really have quit typing.
armoredman
Member
I have carried trunk guns, and every time I always fret about the gun being stolen. Not the car - nobody wants THAT car, but the rifle, yes, even if nothing more than a Mosin M-38. I cannot imagine more than a few left field scenarios that would allow me to get it out an employ it, and yes, a very few of those scenarios have come to pass in some areas of the country, but it would still be very unlikely I could reach a rifle in the trunk in any kind of reasonable time for self defense. My sidearm, MUCH faster.
If I broke down in the territory we call the Drug Corridor, I'd want a long gun as I was hiking out. I also have supplies for a day or so, and water, so I could get somewhere within reason, but the cartels have been and continue to be slightly on the viscous side. Then I would like a light and handy carbine to tote with me.
But 99.99% of the time, to me and me alone, the benefits are far outweighed by the risks. I do practice with my sidearm at longer ranges, but we have to stay inside the bounds of what is self defense? Unless I am engaged by someone with a rifle at range, I am probably not going to need a rifle at range.
If I broke down in the territory we call the Drug Corridor, I'd want a long gun as I was hiking out. I also have supplies for a day or so, and water, so I could get somewhere within reason, but the cartels have been and continue to be slightly on the viscous side. Then I would like a light and handy carbine to tote with me.
But 99.99% of the time, to me and me alone, the benefits are far outweighed by the risks. I do practice with my sidearm at longer ranges, but we have to stay inside the bounds of what is self defense? Unless I am engaged by someone with a rifle at range, I am probably not going to need a rifle at range.
d2wing
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I just woke up and remembered something. Do not follow my example. You should maybe never confront strangers armed or not. You or them. I do not like to mention that I am a trained and experienced professional at confronting hostile parties where I find them while I am unarmed. Sometimes I had armed back up but usually not. I am not John Wayne nor are you and life isn't a movie. If you were me in the day and can clear out a location just by walking in and looking around fine. Besides people are way more crazy, violent and unpredictable in the last few years. So be safe stay away from trouble.
Phaedrus/69
Member
Great topic! I grew up in rural South Dakota, way out in the stix about 20 miles from the nearest [podunk] town. Virtually everyone had a truck gun, sometimes two. This was the 70's and 80's when it was unusual to see a truck that didn't have a gun rack in the window. Apropos of nothing I took a deer rifle to school for show-and-tell in gradeschool and the teacher thought it was totally fine! And when I was a bit older my boss knew I had a Mini-14 and was thinking of getting one so he asked me to bring it to work (!) and show it to him. Different times!
In rural areas I still think a rifle in your vehicle makes sense. In fact I think it makes sense if you drive through rural or sparsely populated areas. In a road rage situation it's not all unusual to be chased/pursued for many miles by some whacko. If you're run off the road or fired upon (and I've read many accounts of this) returning fire with a long gun is gonna be more effective.
I have no arguments at all with the OP and his points. Lots of chances for theft probably and not a lot of times when you'd need the gun (again, unless you're a rancher or farmer). But if you do need the rifle you might really need it.
If I was ever forces into a gun fight that I absolutely could not avoid I'd really like to have a rifle with me!
In rural areas I still think a rifle in your vehicle makes sense. In fact I think it makes sense if you drive through rural or sparsely populated areas. In a road rage situation it's not all unusual to be chased/pursued for many miles by some whacko. If you're run off the road or fired upon (and I've read many accounts of this) returning fire with a long gun is gonna be more effective.
I have no arguments at all with the OP and his points. Lots of chances for theft probably and not a lot of times when you'd need the gun (again, unless you're a rancher or farmer). But if you do need the rifle you might really need it.
If I was ever forces into a gun fight that I absolutely could not avoid I'd really like to have a rifle with me!
Phaedrus/69
Member
BTW, an AR pistol with a Sig-type brace would maybe be the ultimate truck gun as others have pointed out. Would it be harder to justify that gun to a DA? Maybe. But as they say, you can walk out of a jail but you can't walk out of a grave.
silicosys4
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Cars are stolen much more often than instances occur where long guns are specifically needed for sd and a handgun would not suffice, yet there was time to get to the rifle.
I have a long gun in my truck when I'm hunting or when I might have the opportunity, and when I am going to go shooting or might have the opportunity. I've even had long guns in my miata while hunting or shooting, but that's a different story, lol.
Other than that, I feel its more trouble than it will ever be worth over my ccw. I guess I'm playing the odds, but the odds of dying next to my ccw for lack of a rifle in my trunk are like the odds of winning the lottery. Probably less.
I have had to walk away from a broken down car along a freeway, then hitchhike miles to the nearest phone/hotel. I had a concealed handgun and felt adequately prepared, but if I had a rifle instead I would have almost certainly had to walk those 30 or so miles, then check into a hotel, then rent a uhaul and trailer, all while carrying a long gun on my shoulder, rather than leave it in an abandoned vehicle by the side of a remote stretch of freeway, because nobody in their right mind is going to give a ride to a guy with an sks on his shoulder.
Maybe the police.
I agree with the points made by the OP. A rifle in the trunk of the average commuter is more of a safety blanket than anything, and is much more likely to be a hindrance, fodder for the black market, or an excuse to escalate a situation than it is a necessary or useful tool.
I have a long gun in my truck when I'm hunting or when I might have the opportunity, and when I am going to go shooting or might have the opportunity. I've even had long guns in my miata while hunting or shooting, but that's a different story, lol.
Other than that, I feel its more trouble than it will ever be worth over my ccw. I guess I'm playing the odds, but the odds of dying next to my ccw for lack of a rifle in my trunk are like the odds of winning the lottery. Probably less.
I have had to walk away from a broken down car along a freeway, then hitchhike miles to the nearest phone/hotel. I had a concealed handgun and felt adequately prepared, but if I had a rifle instead I would have almost certainly had to walk those 30 or so miles, then check into a hotel, then rent a uhaul and trailer, all while carrying a long gun on my shoulder, rather than leave it in an abandoned vehicle by the side of a remote stretch of freeway, because nobody in their right mind is going to give a ride to a guy with an sks on his shoulder.
Maybe the police.
I agree with the points made by the OP. A rifle in the trunk of the average commuter is more of a safety blanket than anything, and is much more likely to be a hindrance, fodder for the black market, or an excuse to escalate a situation than it is a necessary or useful tool.
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The reason so many can and do have a long arm in the vehicle is that crime is so low in the specific areas and the way they conduct themself. That doesn't exist for all of us, which makes the choice to do so difficult. Some of us have had our cars ransacked while parked outside the home - and even had the perpetrators honk and wave as they speed away. Some of us have had our cars rummaged thru outside our work by the homeless, in full sight of the staff's windows looking out onto the parking lot. Some of us have had our cars towed, only to find the contents of most of the storage areas dumped onto the floorboards by others searching thru our belongings, right or wrong.
We've suffered a higher probability of theft than we have of needing the gun. Therefore it's not an option - our job restricts our right, most have policies that don't allow them on the property. Some have been terminated because of it. The police are a risk, however legal. Despite whatever we think about them, AR15 SBR's and SB15 equipped pistols can and will be viewed as lethal weapons - not "sporting firearms." And the crime rate, however low, isn't low enough. Even tho the town and area are considered in good terms.
Basically, I can't carry a trunk gun because so many others go out of their way to make it difficult, and I have already been imposed on in the past to prove it. It's really not an issue of whether I can or not, it's an issue that some just get away with it. Others may, I cannot.
And if I catch someone going thru the car stealing my rifle, I just can't shoot them on the spot with my CCW. I have to conform to all the rules there, too.
Trying to make it sound easy is really misleading. It's not, it's a serious decision with repercussions and a lot of risk. There is more risk of other negative things happening than needing the firearm. Let's not forget most cops never pull their handgun and fire shots to defend themselves during their entire career. And they are paid to go find trouble. We avoid it.
We've suffered a higher probability of theft than we have of needing the gun. Therefore it's not an option - our job restricts our right, most have policies that don't allow them on the property. Some have been terminated because of it. The police are a risk, however legal. Despite whatever we think about them, AR15 SBR's and SB15 equipped pistols can and will be viewed as lethal weapons - not "sporting firearms." And the crime rate, however low, isn't low enough. Even tho the town and area are considered in good terms.
Basically, I can't carry a trunk gun because so many others go out of their way to make it difficult, and I have already been imposed on in the past to prove it. It's really not an issue of whether I can or not, it's an issue that some just get away with it. Others may, I cannot.
And if I catch someone going thru the car stealing my rifle, I just can't shoot them on the spot with my CCW. I have to conform to all the rules there, too.
Trying to make it sound easy is really misleading. It's not, it's a serious decision with repercussions and a lot of risk. There is more risk of other negative things happening than needing the firearm. Let's not forget most cops never pull their handgun and fire shots to defend themselves during their entire career. And they are paid to go find trouble. We avoid it.
No dog in this fight, except I'm seeing a lot of "overthinking" going on.
If the risk of vehicle theft is that great where you live or work, then you've got yourself a "life safety" issue that's bigger than merely whether you store a weapon in your vehicle.
Yeah, I keep a "truck gun" - a rifle - in the trunk of my vehicle.
At night, at home, my vehicle's parked inside the garage.
If I'm travelling, I'll accept the risk of theft, which I've taken steps to minimize. My rifle (along w/ clips & ammo) is short enough to fit inside a locked Tuffy vault purchased just to mitigate that risk. The vault is bolted to the floor of the trunk and the top of the vault, when viewed from outside the vehicle, has been made less conspicuous as being what it is by means of a piece of carpet that matches the color and, roughly, the texture of the vehicle's factory upholstery.
"Truck gun: .308 M1 "Tanker" Garand.
Well, this line reminds me of the comment I heard yesterday while having coffee - except the comment was about the President's habit of "talking to Putin like a laywer at a deposition," rather than imposing every possible sanction on this ex-KGB a-hole while giving the Ukraine whatever direct aid it needs - and, worse, Obama's penchant for dealing with murdering terrorist thugs (e.g., al qaeda or ISIS jihadies) as if he were a district attorney instead of just shooting them.
Direct action, people.
It often works despite some risks, whereas "paralysis by analysis," ... well, doesn't.
If the risk of vehicle theft is that great where you live or work, then you've got yourself a "life safety" issue that's bigger than merely whether you store a weapon in your vehicle.
Yeah, I keep a "truck gun" - a rifle - in the trunk of my vehicle.
At night, at home, my vehicle's parked inside the garage.
If I'm travelling, I'll accept the risk of theft, which I've taken steps to minimize. My rifle (along w/ clips & ammo) is short enough to fit inside a locked Tuffy vault purchased just to mitigate that risk. The vault is bolted to the floor of the trunk and the top of the vault, when viewed from outside the vehicle, has been made less conspicuous as being what it is by means of a piece of carpet that matches the color and, roughly, the texture of the vehicle's factory upholstery.
"Truck gun: .308 M1 "Tanker" Garand.
Too much lawyer, not enough man.
Well, this line reminds me of the comment I heard yesterday while having coffee - except the comment was about the President's habit of "talking to Putin like a laywer at a deposition," rather than imposing every possible sanction on this ex-KGB a-hole while giving the Ukraine whatever direct aid it needs - and, worse, Obama's penchant for dealing with murdering terrorist thugs (e.g., al qaeda or ISIS jihadies) as if he were a district attorney instead of just shooting them.
Direct action, people.
It often works despite some risks, whereas "paralysis by analysis," ... well, doesn't.
Sam1911: Let me give it my best shot (but I should note that I eventually decided not to carry the trunk gun).
I live in Seattle. My home and workplace are separated by 15 miles of what is not the best part of town. According to the geologists, SoCal has a medium-big earthquake every 100 years, and Seattle has a whopper every 1000 years. If the Richter 9.5 quake hits while I'm here, I don't expect to be able to drive (water features, bridges and overpasses damaged, and so on). If you look at the pessimistic projections from the state office of emergency preparedness (interstates down, airport runways down, rail lines out, port damaged) help is not going to arrive all that quickly. Policing is likely to be fairly thin (infrastructure like police radio repeaters not quake resistant, difficulties getting around in squad cars, phone systems down, officers going home to take care of their families). That would lead me to expect civil unrest to some degree, especially in parts of town where people, on the average, keep less food and water stockpiled.
With luck, I can walk home (and I want to be home, because my wife is likely to need assistance) before any civil unrest gets bad. But there are some pessimistic what-ifs: I'm injured and the trip takes a couple days of limping, I feel compelled in the aftermath to help rescue coworkers, it takes a day to find a pedestrian passable bridge, or whatever.
So, what are my options? I could have a truck handgun (my employer doesn't allow CCW). That's nice, but I worry about the theft issue; going by the stats, handguns are much more likely to be used for bad ends than long guns.
So, one option, is to keep a long gun in the trunk - one that is fairly unlikely to be misused, so no AR pistols or whatever. Maybe a Mini-14, or one of the Keltec folders, or a youth 336, and some moderately innocuous way to carry it while walking (SneakyBag, baseball bat bag, or whatever).
Like I said, I thought about it, and eventually decided not to, but I can see others reasonably deciding otherwise.
FWIW, when I do leave guns in the vehicle while at work (I don't park on company property), I have them in a sturdy locked box (bed mounted toolbox or van w/ built in lockbox), immobilize the steering wheel, and park in a lot where there is a lot of passing traffic. Just like at home, where I have a safe bolted to the slab and a monitored alarm. But nothing is 100% safe.
I live in Seattle. My home and workplace are separated by 15 miles of what is not the best part of town. According to the geologists, SoCal has a medium-big earthquake every 100 years, and Seattle has a whopper every 1000 years. If the Richter 9.5 quake hits while I'm here, I don't expect to be able to drive (water features, bridges and overpasses damaged, and so on). If you look at the pessimistic projections from the state office of emergency preparedness (interstates down, airport runways down, rail lines out, port damaged) help is not going to arrive all that quickly. Policing is likely to be fairly thin (infrastructure like police radio repeaters not quake resistant, difficulties getting around in squad cars, phone systems down, officers going home to take care of their families). That would lead me to expect civil unrest to some degree, especially in parts of town where people, on the average, keep less food and water stockpiled.
With luck, I can walk home (and I want to be home, because my wife is likely to need assistance) before any civil unrest gets bad. But there are some pessimistic what-ifs: I'm injured and the trip takes a couple days of limping, I feel compelled in the aftermath to help rescue coworkers, it takes a day to find a pedestrian passable bridge, or whatever.
So, what are my options? I could have a truck handgun (my employer doesn't allow CCW). That's nice, but I worry about the theft issue; going by the stats, handguns are much more likely to be used for bad ends than long guns.
So, one option, is to keep a long gun in the trunk - one that is fairly unlikely to be misused, so no AR pistols or whatever. Maybe a Mini-14, or one of the Keltec folders, or a youth 336, and some moderately innocuous way to carry it while walking (SneakyBag, baseball bat bag, or whatever).
Like I said, I thought about it, and eventually decided not to, but I can see others reasonably deciding otherwise.
FWIW, when I do leave guns in the vehicle while at work (I don't park on company property), I have them in a sturdy locked box (bed mounted toolbox or van w/ built in lockbox), immobilize the steering wheel, and park in a lot where there is a lot of passing traffic. Just like at home, where I have a safe bolted to the slab and a monitored alarm. But nothing is 100% safe.
d2wing
Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,419
Well most Lawyers are paid by billable hours. Much of that is producing piles of paper that bring up every point they can to confuse and complicate the issue and overwhelm whatever the other lawyer presents.
The OP could have said, I think a handgun is more useful than a rifle for urban commuteing. Do you agree? But that would not be lawyer like and we would not have such a lively discussion.
The OP could have said, I think a handgun is more useful than a rifle for urban commuteing. Do you agree? But that would not be lawyer like and we would not have such a lively discussion.
LemmyCaution
Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2008
- Messages
- 897
So, what is the actual prevalence of truck guns in non-rural areas? I mean, is this really even much of an issue? One can argue the merits of this or that action all day, but if such an action is statistically negligible, doesn't getting worked up over the small risk that the vehicle of an infinitesimally small portion of the population will be stolen border on concern trolling?
Unless I'm wrong about the overwhelming majority of truck guns belonging to rural residents.
Unless I'm wrong about the overwhelming majority of truck guns belonging to rural residents.
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