Rifleman = 500 yard Torso shots???
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Wetawd
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Ya if it was me with an ak at 500... I'd be a janitor or kp duty.
Regolith
Member
I may be wrong, as I was never in the military, but I believe they have you shoot at man sized targets at 600m with M-16's during basic.
pgeleven
Member
500 yards, iron sights of course
Intune
Member
Yep, and there wasn't a whole bunch of scoring from those targets either. Add up the close yrdg ones & call it a day. I kid you not... We never had any problem in our tank at that range. We'd run 'em over
11B's, pfsst...
We love you guys!
Flak jacket donned...
11B's, pfsst...
We love you guys!
Flak jacket donned...
It all depends on the AK. You'd be pretty hard pressed to hit a 500 meter target with an AK in 7.62x39 especially if it was only approximately 500m and you didn't know the exact range. A good AK in .223, .308 or 7.62x54R could do it reasonably well though.
Husker1911
Member
Your disdain for the AK notwithstanding, apples/oranges. It's never easy to hit a torso at 500 yards, but that was with a full battle rifle caliber, not the AK caliber.
The 7.62 x 39 has excelled in conflicts since WWII.
marksman13
Member
500 yards for Marines. 300 for everybody else as far as I know.
The 7.62x39 just ain't up for the 500 yard task in the AK47 or SKS platform. That's one reason we use the M16/M4 and the 5.56mm.
Given my choice I would rather have the M4 over the AK, but I wouldn't feel under-equipped with an AK in an urban situation either. No need in comparing the two though as they are totally different weapon systems designed for totally different missions.
chris in va
Member
Wonder if my CZ could do it...
possum
Member
in basic and ait we shot out to 300 meters, and that is it.
with my personal ak i can hit 200yds all day in the 5 zone of a military e type shillouete in any postion but there is no way that i could do that at 500yds with the ak, i would try but i wouldn't count on it.
my issued m4 or personal ar i have alot of confidence that i would be able to hit 500yds.
with my personal ak i can hit 200yds all day in the 5 zone of a military e type shillouete in any postion but there is no way that i could do that at 500yds with the ak, i would try but i wouldn't count on it.
my issued m4 or personal ar i have alot of confidence that i would be able to hit 500yds.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
At 500 yards, the quality of the sights becomes very important--and wind is a major factor. It's like anything, though. You gotta get dialled in and used to doing it.
jwxspoon
Member
With my 41 year old eyes and no optics... that would be a tough shot.
300 all day long though.
jw
300 all day long though.
jw
Remember that torso hits at 500 is something like 4MOA - 4MOA isn't asking too much from a rifle in general. It is asking a bit from the shooter.
With a 14.5" bushie shooting Adcom m855 with irons, I've been out to 400 yards at an Appleseed and was amazed at the number of v ring hits from prone.
Also shot out to 500 with the same rifle out at the Impactzone in Houston (waller) against steel sillouettes and had the same results with wolf 55gr. 500 was out for me with the gnu and wolf combination.
With good ammo, a rifle in good shape and of sound design (AK somwhat included - not the "kits" that we get here in the USA but the real deal), it's the shooter that counts.
The owner of the Impactzone said he made hits out to 400 with his 7.62x39 ak while he was marking off the distances. He also said that 500 was out though. I have no reason to doubt him as he was the one teaching the rifle class that day.
With a 14.5" bushie shooting Adcom m855 with irons, I've been out to 400 yards at an Appleseed and was amazed at the number of v ring hits from prone.
Also shot out to 500 with the same rifle out at the Impactzone in Houston (waller) against steel sillouettes and had the same results with wolf 55gr. 500 was out for me with the gnu and wolf combination.
With good ammo, a rifle in good shape and of sound design (AK somwhat included - not the "kits" that we get here in the USA but the real deal), it's the shooter that counts.
The owner of the Impactzone said he made hits out to 400 with his 7.62x39 ak while he was marking off the distances. He also said that 500 was out though. I have no reason to doubt him as he was the one teaching the rifle class that day.
Atla
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EVERYONE should attend an Appleseed.
You will be well on your way to consistantly hitting targets at 500 yards. If you can't get to an Appleseed, and theres no reason why you can't, then go to Fredsm14stocks website and order some AQT targets that simulate rangers between 100-500 and practice on them but are shot at 25 meters(27 yards)... you can even practice with a .22 at that range.
You will be well on your way to consistantly hitting targets at 500 yards. If you can't get to an Appleseed, and theres no reason why you can't, then go to Fredsm14stocks website and order some AQT targets that simulate rangers between 100-500 and practice on them but are shot at 25 meters(27 yards)... you can even practice with a .22 at that range.
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
When my father was in the Marines, (he joined in 1937) the standard qualification with a 1903 Springfield was 600 yards and you got paid extra if you qualified out to 1000 yards.
When I was in the Army, I qualified out as far as 500 meters (overseas) and 500 yards stateside. We did, however, practice at ranges out to 600 yards prior to initial qualification. This was with the M16A1, then the M16A2.
I agree totally on the Appleseed comment above. Best thing you can do for your rifle marksmanship. Helped my son a great deal in his shooting.
Dave
When I was in the Army, I qualified out as far as 500 meters (overseas) and 500 yards stateside. We did, however, practice at ranges out to 600 yards prior to initial qualification. This was with the M16A1, then the M16A2.
I agree totally on the Appleseed comment above. Best thing you can do for your rifle marksmanship. Helped my son a great deal in his shooting.
Dave
JoeLad
Member
That's what we did on the KD course at Edson Range. Except it was 500 meters. We started at 200, moved back to 300, ended at 500.
Rifle qualification at the 500 yard (or meter) line required firing on a man sized target. Not hard to keep them in the black on any given day using an M16 in the prone position.
Rifle qualification at the 500 yard (or meter) line required firing on a man sized target. Not hard to keep them in the black on any given day using an M16 in the prone position.
mudslinging79
Member
if i remember corectly, the torso is man size on a background about 4 ft by 5 ft. you get points for hitting the dam thing anywhere. heck the front sight covers the target at that range anyway
Atla
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If I recall correctly, basically a toso is roughly 21 inches across.
So if you can regularly hit a postage stamp sized target at 25 meters(simulating a 500yd torso) on demand at anytime - you are a rifleman. (Preferably with iron sights, because optics can and will get screwed up in the field.)
So if you can regularly hit a postage stamp sized target at 25 meters(simulating a 500yd torso) on demand at anytime - you are a rifleman. (Preferably with iron sights, because optics can and will get screwed up in the field.)
RobertFBurnett
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iirc in an episode of "Mail Call" Gunny (re)qualified for USMC expert marksman at 500 with a M14. Hope my eyes are anywhere near that good at His age, or have found a good Lasik surgeon.
RFB
RFB
at boot camp, pretty much everyone that qualified sharpshooter or expert (top two qualification tiers) was able to hit at 500 yards, all day long. bear in mind that was known distance, with wind socks and a "dope book".
you could probably hit at 500 yards with an AK, under similar circumstances and with good quality ammo, but not with anywhere the level of consistency you'd find with an AR, M14, or Garand. your AK odds would probably improve if you used 7.62x54, 5.56x45 or (maybe?) 5.45x39, and peep sights, with a longer sight radius (can anyone say "Galil"?).
you could probably hit at 500 yards with an AK, under similar circumstances and with good quality ammo, but not with anywhere the level of consistency you'd find with an AR, M14, or Garand. your AK odds would probably improve if you used 7.62x54, 5.56x45 or (maybe?) 5.45x39, and peep sights, with a longer sight radius (can anyone say "Galil"?).
i believe the "point target, maximum range" is 550 meter which i believe is 600 yards. iv never been in the military but in various conversations with soldiers, airmen and marines i dont think iv heard of any one having to qualify at over 500 yards.
back in the days of 30-06 and M1903's yes, 600 and + was a realistic possibility.
you know the saying "you will never be more badass than your grandfather." they always did everything cooler, father, faster and up hill, barefoot in the snow.
theotherwaldo
Member
The AK-47 was intended to be a massed-fire weapon which would utilize the semi-aimed fire of a large number of gunners against concentrations of targets at a relatively close range.
Rate of fire is most important.
Accuracy was a secondary consideration.
American firearms up to the M-16 series were intended to engage individual targets as far away as possible.
Accuracy is most important.
Apples and oranges argument.
Rate of fire is most important.
Accuracy was a secondary consideration.
American firearms up to the M-16 series were intended to engage individual targets as far away as possible.
Accuracy is most important.
Apples and oranges argument.
Wolfgang2000
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When I was in the Army (72 to 76) 300 meters was the longest shot. Many times I would walk to the 300 meter line and see those little bullets stuck haft way through those plastic targets, or laying on the ground in a little 6" trench.
Being able to hit it and stopping it are 2 different things.
Up close with the right bullet and barrel twist the AR platform can be devastating. At range, 300, 400 or 500, Wellllll you can do what you want, me it's a 308.
Personally, I choose the AK platform. But if you like the AR system, (or any system), understand it's strengths,and weakness. To not do so could be fatal.
Being able to hit it and stopping it are 2 different things.
Up close with the right bullet and barrel twist the AR platform can be devastating. At range, 300, 400 or 500, Wellllll you can do what you want, me it's a 308.
Personally, I choose the AK platform. But if you like the AR system, (or any system), understand it's strengths,and weakness. To not do so could be fatal.
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