redbone
Member
I heard an unsubstantiated rumor today that beginning next year, Indiana will allow rifles shooting pistol-class cartridges to be used for deer hunting. Can anybody substantiate that?
RBH
RBH
Rifles for deer hunting in Indiana next year?
- Thread starter redbone
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MCgunner
Member
Nope, don't know nothin', but I say rumor is good nuf for ya to go pick out a nice Marlin 94 in .44 mag. 
carnaby
Member
Must suck being in a state that doesn't allow rifles for hunting
redbone
Member
Well, yeah, it does. I try to off set that by using an Omega front loader. So far, that's as good as it gets. My first deer was with a flintlock Hawkin, so the laws kinda forced me to do something that I wouldn't have otherwise, and it's quite a memory. But I do look forward to using my Win 94 (.357) if this is true.
RBH
RBH
MCgunner
Member
I shot one with my Rossi 92 in .357 once and it did a good job. Was a small doe, though, but the wound was impressive with a 158 grain hard cast SWC.
I never really understood the not using a rifle thing in states like Indiana. Are there no open areas? Are you hunting in the back yard in a crowded neighborhood? Weird. There's houses back behind me where I hunt and I use rifles. I am set up facing the big ranch in front of me, no houses anywhere I can see to shoot, but still, it's not in the middle of nowhere. I've never been past New Albany north in Indiana, but I can't imagine it's any more crowded than most of the eastern half of Texas.
I never really understood the not using a rifle thing in states like Indiana. Are there no open areas? Are you hunting in the back yard in a crowded neighborhood? Weird. There's houses back behind me where I hunt and I use rifles. I am set up facing the big ranch in front of me, no houses anywhere I can see to shoot, but still, it's not in the middle of nowhere. I've never been past New Albany north in Indiana, but I can't imagine it's any more crowded than most of the eastern half of Texas.
HUnter58
Member
Rifles in Indiana
Thie was voted on in the year and is subject to change.
Check out this link.
http://www.hoosierhunting.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000279
http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2006/IN/IN0263.1.html
Thie was voted on in the year and is subject to change.
Check out this link.
http://www.hoosierhunting.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000279
http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2006/IN/IN0263.1.html
El Tejon
Member
Finally, at long last, of course, this is sort of legalizing what may already be transpiring . . . er, so I have heard.
MCGunner, you are not alone. Funny how we can use a .308 to shoot coyotes with but not deer. However, one can use a centerfire rifle to shoot Bambi if you have a predation permit. Is your head hurting yet?
This is a welcome change and a step to ridding us on the silly "no centerfire rifle" rule.
MCGunner, you are not alone. Funny how we can use a .308 to shoot coyotes with but not deer. However, one can use a centerfire rifle to shoot Bambi if you have a predation permit. Is your head hurting yet?
This is a welcome change and a step to ridding us on the silly "no centerfire rifle" rule.
There seems to be a trend of once shot-gun only areas converting to rifle. I think Iowa has gone rifle and western Minnesota has done so just this year. I can't imagine the country's getting less populated. Don't know what the reasoning is. Maybe the shotgun is just too ineffective at controlling a growing farm-country deer population.
Crazy Uncle Al Gore
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how are slugs any less likely to travel long distances and hit people than rifles. They travel just as far don't they. They are just inaccurate at a longer range. We are worried about stray rounds right? That's why we ban rifles in states like Ohio and Indiana. It just doesn't make since to ban rifles, but what do I know.
El Tejon
Member
Algore, the centerfire rifle prohibition is only for normal deer hunting. It does not apply to a predation permit or to critters like coyotes. I have never understood this logic (or lack thereof).
IDNR Magic: At regular firearms deer season my 6.5x55mm is too dangerous; however, if I take it along to shoot coyotes or to shoot deer on a Christmas tree farm, centerfire rifle is okey-dokey and safe to fluffy bunnies and THE CHILDREN.
IDNR Magic: At regular firearms deer season my 6.5x55mm is too dangerous; however, if I take it along to shoot coyotes or to shoot deer on a Christmas tree farm, centerfire rifle is okey-dokey and safe to fluffy bunnies and THE CHILDREN.
redneck2
Member
I suspect that they were trying to make it simple. Pistols less than .357 mag were not allowed. Any other pistol was. Shotgun slugs are short range rounds (circa 1960's). Muzzle loaders shoot round balls and are relatively short range firearms.
Then companies come out and make "pistols" in .308. Shotguns have 2,000 fps sabots. Muzzle loaders have sabots that are equivalent to mid-range centerfires.
I'm not real excited about high powered rifles. As much as I'd like to use a 30-06 to deer hunt, I can't imagine every guy around here with one. Too many houses, people, and livestock.
This deal about pistol rounds only in pistols/rifles has been floating around for a year or two. I've got a .357 Herret that I'm going to use Saturday on opening day. I would be outlawed with the new legislation. I'd trade that for a chance to use my .45 LC rifle.
Then companies come out and make "pistols" in .308. Shotguns have 2,000 fps sabots. Muzzle loaders have sabots that are equivalent to mid-range centerfires.
I'm not real excited about high powered rifles. As much as I'd like to use a 30-06 to deer hunt, I can't imagine every guy around here with one. Too many houses, people, and livestock.
This deal about pistol rounds only in pistols/rifles has been floating around for a year or two. I've got a .357 Herret that I'm going to use Saturday on opening day. I would be outlawed with the new legislation. I'd trade that for a chance to use my .45 LC rifle.
Grumulkin
Member
Shotgun slugs don't go nearly as far as rifle bullets. They start out at a much lower velocity and have terrible ballistic coeficients.
In Ohio, for handguns, one is limited to straight walled cartridges. These will have more of a range than shotguns but still the velocity in general is lower than that of many rifles and the ballistic coeficients are low by rifle standards.
In my opinion, there is a big difference in a few people hunting varmints and nuisance deer with rifles and in loosing a whole horde of hunters on a flat state (like IN and OH) with rifles on the opening day of deer season. There would no doubt be rifle bullets landing in populated areas which would do nothing for the popularity of hunting. The deer harvest would also probably rise considerably which might be bad from a conservation standpoint.
In Ohio, for handguns, one is limited to straight walled cartridges. These will have more of a range than shotguns but still the velocity in general is lower than that of many rifles and the ballistic coeficients are low by rifle standards.
In my opinion, there is a big difference in a few people hunting varmints and nuisance deer with rifles and in loosing a whole horde of hunters on a flat state (like IN and OH) with rifles on the opening day of deer season. There would no doubt be rifle bullets landing in populated areas which would do nothing for the popularity of hunting. The deer harvest would also probably rise considerably which might be bad from a conservation standpoint.
redneck2
Member
I just got some 12 gauge 300 grain Hornadys. 2,000 fps. Sighted at 150 yards they drop 6" at 200.
Due to frontal area they'll drop off faster at 200+, but they still approach mid range rifle loads within the first 200 yards. Something like a .308 may skip for over a mile if it hit a rock, water, etc. If somebody took a shot over the crest of a hill, it would go several miles.
If you are on public land in Michigan opening day, you'll understand why you don't want every guy in the woods having a centerfire rifle. I'm not all that concerned about an occasional varmint hunter, particularly with rounds that fragment. It's Bubba with the semi-auto 30-06 blazing away that gets me jumpy.
Grumulkin
Member
Are you saying the 308 will shoot several miles or that shotgun slugs will go that far? I would take "several" to mean at least 3 miles and I doubt a shotgun slug would do that (maybe I'm wrong).
Also, I think many Bubbas would be using other than "mid-range" rifle loads. They would be using full house 300 Win. Mags.
Maybe there should be a law on the maximum power of a cartridge for deer (before you flame me, I'm only kidding).
Also, I think many Bubbas would be using other than "mid-range" rifle loads. They would be using full house 300 Win. Mags.
Maybe there should be a law on the maximum power of a cartridge for deer (before you flame me, I'm only kidding).
The number of bonus doe licenses in my county is up to 8(!) this year (Hendricks), plus the eastern third is in the urban archery zone, so that's 3 more, IIRC, plus the normal firearms license, archery license, and muzzlloader license; so technically I could harvest 14 deer in Hendricks county.
Problem is that you have to know a land owner and get permission. It's no wonder the bag limit is so high.
I won't be hunting in my own county this year. That tops all.
mohican
Member
I read an article in a recent issue of Deer & Deer Hunter that takes the shotgun vs rifle is safer thing to task. in looking at neighboring counties in states that have both rifle and shotgun deer hunting, the counties allowing hunting with centerfire rifles often have less non intentional shootings and fatalities than in the shotgun only counties.
The shorter range of a shotgun limiting non intentional shootings vs centerfire rifles arguement sounds good, but doesn't seem to be born out in fact.
There are some shotgun (and muzzleloader) loads that are outdistancing the 30-30s, 35 rems and 45-70s that unless you are shooting spitzer ammo it may be moot.
as shotgun and muzzleloading sabot ammo has gotten hotter, the trend of accidental shootings has gone down significantly from the days when buckshot or pumpkin balls were what you put through your shotguns. And there are more hunters out in less open spaces.
Face it, the yahoos that blaze away will blaze away whether it's a 30-06 or a 12 guage. in fact, the 30-06 may require less "kentucky windage" so their is less chance off someone blindly flinging lead over the next hilltop.
The shorter range of a shotgun limiting non intentional shootings vs centerfire rifles arguement sounds good, but doesn't seem to be born out in fact.
There are some shotgun (and muzzleloader) loads that are outdistancing the 30-30s, 35 rems and 45-70s that unless you are shooting spitzer ammo it may be moot.
as shotgun and muzzleloading sabot ammo has gotten hotter, the trend of accidental shootings has gone down significantly from the days when buckshot or pumpkin balls were what you put through your shotguns. And there are more hunters out in less open spaces.
Face it, the yahoos that blaze away will blaze away whether it's a 30-06 or a 12 guage. in fact, the 30-06 may require less "kentucky windage" so their is less chance off someone blindly flinging lead over the next hilltop.
) rather than saying, "I'd better get this one before it gets out of range!"mohican
Member
I have written to ODNR (ohio) about allowing rifles that chambered the shells they let us shoot in handguns (.357 and above, straight walled). In fact, the way the game laws now read some of the big handguns that take the 444 marlin and 45-70 are now allowed.
For some odd reason, one of the guns I like to shoot the most, and would love to hunt deer with is my Marlin 1894 in 44 mag.
I have an 1894C in .357 that would be great for Son #2 to hunt deer with close range
For some odd reason, one of the guns I like to shoot the most, and would love to hunt deer with is my Marlin 1894 in 44 mag.
I have an 1894C in .357 that would be great for Son #2 to hunt deer with close range
OH25shooter
Member
I understand that statement. But, I still hear shotgun hunters blasting away with auto-loaders and the pump action without the required plug for a three round maximum load. Like any other state their aren't enough game wardens to check on legal hunters on crowded opening day. My Marlin 1894C .357 is still waiting to come out if and when rifles are approved in Ohio. I probably have a better chance at seeing an albino deer before that will happen in such a conservative state. I just add it to the list of why "Ohio Sucks".
It has provided nice bucks
Indiana has some nice bucks and a good buck, doe ratio because of the rifle ban. A good in line 50 cal especially those with 150 grains is good to go for almost all white tail shots IMO. A person could take almost an unlimited number of deer in Indiana with the county by county quota's based on car wrecks, limited only by time to hunt. If you see a change to rifles it will because the insurance companies (huge lobby) wants all the deer killed off.
Be careful what you ask for.
just my 2 cents
Cork in MS
Indiana has some nice bucks and a good buck, doe ratio because of the rifle ban. A good in line 50 cal especially those with 150 grains is good to go for almost all white tail shots IMO. A person could take almost an unlimited number of deer in Indiana with the county by county quota's based on car wrecks, limited only by time to hunt. If you see a change to rifles it will because the insurance companies (huge lobby) wants all the deer killed off.
Be careful what you ask for.
just my 2 cents
Cork in MS
El Tejon
Member
This weekend I was out buying guns when this subject was raised. I am having problems understanding the, by my term, "terrain argument."
The argument against centerfire rifles is: "Well, the northern half of the State is mostly flat, so you need to use shotguns there [or all over Indiana]."
I point out that Way Out West in flat as an ironing board, e.g. Tejas, yet they use centerfire rifles there. Plus, what 9 out of 10 flannels hunt from tree stands where one is shooting down into the earf. In addition, if it is flat does that not call for longer shots? With a centerfire rifle cannot one place his shot with greater accuracy and thus be safer? Last time I went out it was on a flatish, rolling Christmas tree farm and I smacked a fat buck with a 140 grain 6.5x55. No danger to anyone.
It seems to me that the terrain argument against centerfire rifles undercuts itself and is made by people unfamiliar with shotguns slug ballistics or Rule #4.
Someone help me understand please.
The argument against centerfire rifles is: "Well, the northern half of the State is mostly flat, so you need to use shotguns there [or all over Indiana]."
I point out that Way Out West in flat as an ironing board, e.g. Tejas, yet they use centerfire rifles there. Plus, what 9 out of 10 flannels hunt from tree stands where one is shooting down into the earf. In addition, if it is flat does that not call for longer shots? With a centerfire rifle cannot one place his shot with greater accuracy and thus be safer? Last time I went out it was on a flatish, rolling Christmas tree farm and I smacked a fat buck with a 140 grain 6.5x55. No danger to anyone.
It seems to me that the terrain argument against centerfire rifles undercuts itself and is made by people unfamiliar with shotguns slug ballistics or Rule #4.
Someone help me understand please.
redneck2
Member
I just got back from deer hunting all day today.
I've got mixed feelings. As nice as it would be to have the '06, I still have go with what we've got IMO.
Last season opening day I had a 12 pointer standing broadside at 180 yards. Real windy. Too chancy with the muzzle loader and I let it go. What I realized later is that he was on a slight rise and it was uphill (slightly) to where he was standing. If I'd had the '06 and cracked off a shot there is a house about 1/2 mile away directly in line.
It isn't the idea of any significant difference at 150 yards or less. It's the ability to carry to 1/2 mile or more that bothers me.
My post above about shotgun slugs proves that they can be quite potent to 200 yards. BC and frontal area should limit overall range. Same with BP. When you get into the high power rifles, it's ramps up to a different level IMO.
YMMV
I've got mixed feelings. As nice as it would be to have the '06, I still have go with what we've got IMO.
Last season opening day I had a 12 pointer standing broadside at 180 yards. Real windy. Too chancy with the muzzle loader and I let it go. What I realized later is that he was on a slight rise and it was uphill (slightly) to where he was standing. If I'd had the '06 and cracked off a shot there is a house about 1/2 mile away directly in line.
It isn't the idea of any significant difference at 150 yards or less. It's the ability to carry to 1/2 mile or more that bothers me.
My post above about shotgun slugs proves that they can be quite potent to 200 yards. BC and frontal area should limit overall range. Same with BP. When you get into the high power rifles, it's ramps up to a different level IMO.
YMMV
El Tejon
Member
Indiana hunters: Indiana Department of Natural Resources is taking public comments on proposed modifications to game regulations as to the use of (some) centerfire rifles. Contact Ms. Jennifer Kane, IDNR, at (317) 232-0156 to make your comments known. A public hearing is likely in late January or sometime in February. I plan to be there with charts and graphs!
I called and related:
1. DNR magic ballistics makes no sense. If I can use a centerfire rifle against coyotes or deer with a predation permit, why can I not use it in regular firearms season.
2. The "terrain argument" is a specious farce.
3. If I can use a .308 pistol, why can I not put a stock on it so I can control my weapon and be safer to fluffy bunnies and THE CHILDREN?
Apparently those against the use of pistol caliber carbines was lead by something called the Indiana Deer Hunters Association. Anyone know these folks and who we need to contact so we can explain the pro-centerfire rifle position?
I called and related:
1. DNR magic ballistics makes no sense. If I can use a centerfire rifle against coyotes or deer with a predation permit, why can I not use it in regular firearms season.
2. The "terrain argument" is a specious farce.
3. If I can use a .308 pistol, why can I not put a stock on it so I can control my weapon and be safer to fluffy bunnies and THE CHILDREN?
Apparently those against the use of pistol caliber carbines was lead by something called the Indiana Deer Hunters Association. Anyone know these folks and who we need to contact so we can explain the pro-centerfire rifle position?
redbone
Member
El Tejon
Member
red, right, should have provided the link thingy, thanks.
Who are these people? How many members are they? Why are they against the use of centerfire rifles? How did they determine their membership was against the use of centerfire rifles?
Who are these people? How many members are they? Why are they against the use of centerfire rifles? How did they determine their membership was against the use of centerfire rifles?
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