Rohrbaugh news 8/28/03
- Thread starter Blackhawk
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AFAIK, Rohrbaugh isn't selling guns directly to anybody so it's not taking deposits from anybody. Gun stores might ask for deposits, but they're going to have to buy from distributors, and I can't imagine any distributor putting up any deposit for future production. They've got more intelligent things to use their money for. After all, there is no shortage of new guns or of customers for them.
Rohrbaugh is making its own parts on its own machines. The springs are subcontracted, but their facilities are replete with CNC metal working machines to produce almost all the gun's parts.
Idle speculation doesn't serve any edifying purpose. The gun will either be released or not. It will either be successful or not. If they become available, your decision to buy or not is just that -- your decision.
The Rohrbaughs and some others have their money at risk on the venture. Not you or me or any of the other naysayers. I wish them well and hope I'll be able to buy one of their innovative guns.
Rohrbaugh is making its own parts on its own machines. The springs are subcontracted, but their facilities are replete with CNC metal working machines to produce almost all the gun's parts.
Idle speculation doesn't serve any edifying purpose. The gun will either be released or not. It will either be successful or not. If they become available, your decision to buy or not is just that -- your decision.
The Rohrbaughs and some others have their money at risk on the venture. Not you or me or any of the other naysayers. I wish them well and hope I'll be able to buy one of their innovative guns.
tiberius
Member
How can anything be +p+ rated? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there is an official SAAMI pressure level assigned to +p+ 9mm.
I too have my doubts about the success of the Rorbaugh, but I DO hope that it succeeds because if it works, it could be a nice pocket pistol....or another Derringer.
Duncan...
"Out of a 2.7 inch barrel, the ballistics are going to be terrible.
Let's see, a 124 grain Golden Sabre doing 950 fps out of that barrel yields only 248 fpe and with that short barrel, I don't know if you would get 12 inches plus of penetration."
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With such a short barrel would you be better off using 9mm ball ammo for SD?
Thanks,
Rich
"Out of a 2.7 inch barrel, the ballistics are going to be terrible.
Let's see, a 124 grain Golden Sabre doing 950 fps out of that barrel yields only 248 fpe and with that short barrel, I don't know if you would get 12 inches plus of penetration."
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With such a short barrel would you be better off using 9mm ball ammo for SD?
Thanks,
Rich
WonderNine
member
Yes, but if you don't want to be all technical about it +P+ is generally considered higher pressure than +P. Supposedly the Kahr MK9 is +P+ rated. +P+ can be as much powder as the 9mm case will hold, but there is a general concensus among manufacters that +P+ is 20%-25% hotter than normal. Subgun ammo is hotter yet, while it gets the same +P+ designation from some retailers. I'm talking about general factory +P+ ammo.
Chan Bates
Member
+P+
Here's a link to a Charles Petty article of 12 years ago about 9MM ammo iterations. While some of it may now be outdated, it is useful info nonetheless. Get to the middle of it for the discussion of +P+. CB3
http://www.logicsouth.com/~lcoble/lfnv/9mm_ammo.txt
Here's a link to a Charles Petty article of 12 years ago about 9MM ammo iterations. While some of it may now be outdated, it is useful info nonetheless. Get to the middle of it for the discussion of +P+. CB3
http://www.logicsouth.com/~lcoble/lfnv/9mm_ammo.txt
Stevie-Ray
Member
I thought at $695 they were overpriced. Now, 
Jeff OTMG
Member
The 9mm has pretty good ballistics out of a short barrel. I chrono'd a Corbon 115gr JHP out of my S&W 940 and it beat all but the Federal 125gr JHP .357 out of a 3" mod 65. It should be on par with a 2" .357 J-farme. Besides, the RBCD is loaded to standard pressure and does 2300 fps out of a 4" barrel, so I won't be giving up too much.
Part of the delay on introduction was that they had to acquire an additional CNC machine to keep up with the new production schedule. Originally they only intended on selling 500-1500 guns the first year. They received individual oders for that many pistols.
They do sub out the springs, grips, barrel (last I heard), storage box, and literature. All other parts and labor are done in house.
There are no distributors. At this early stage it is necessary to maximize profits by not discounting the gun. Since all available production is pre-sold for some time to come, there is no reason to seek a distribution network at this time.
The price boils down to a simple question. If you worked in an office in central Texas where it will hit 90 degrees tomorrow and you wear slacks and a dress shirt to the office, as I do, and knew you were going to have to shoot a disgruntled employee tomorrow. How much would you pay for a pistol that you could carry with you, that you knew was going to work, that you knew was accurate, and carried ammo that you knew was going to stop the employee with one shot? To me $1000 would be cheap. I would pay $1000 just for the magic bullet, let alone the gun to shoot it with.
Part of the delay on introduction was that they had to acquire an additional CNC machine to keep up with the new production schedule. Originally they only intended on selling 500-1500 guns the first year. They received individual oders for that many pistols.
They do sub out the springs, grips, barrel (last I heard), storage box, and literature. All other parts and labor are done in house.
There are no distributors. At this early stage it is necessary to maximize profits by not discounting the gun. Since all available production is pre-sold for some time to come, there is no reason to seek a distribution network at this time.
The price boils down to a simple question. If you worked in an office in central Texas where it will hit 90 degrees tomorrow and you wear slacks and a dress shirt to the office, as I do, and knew you were going to have to shoot a disgruntled employee tomorrow. How much would you pay for a pistol that you could carry with you, that you knew was going to work, that you knew was accurate, and carried ammo that you knew was going to stop the employee with one shot? To me $1000 would be cheap. I would pay $1000 just for the magic bullet, let alone the gun to shoot it with.
Pocket Pistol
Member
I am really looking forward to getting my hands on one.
I think it will be a great upgrade for a NAA G380.
Same size and more punch for less weight.
As for the cost if it is right $1000 is not bad.
Heck buy a $500 gun then put night sights on it for another $150 - $250
Possibly a trigger job just for insurance at another $200 and you are right at $1000.
Plus I LOVE the Carbon Fibre grips
I think it will be a great upgrade for a NAA G380.
Same size and more punch for less weight.
As for the cost if it is right $1000 is not bad.
Heck buy a $500 gun then put night sights on it for another $150 - $250
Possibly a trigger job just for insurance at another $200 and you are right at $1000.
Plus I LOVE the Carbon Fibre grips
quote:
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How can anything be +p+ rated? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there is an official SAAMI pressure level assigned to +p+ 9mm.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
H&K states in their printed literature that the USP is designed to handle +P+ loads.
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How can anything be +p+ rated? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there is an official SAAMI pressure level assigned to +p+ 9mm.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
H&K states in their printed literature that the USP is designed to handle +P+ loads.
denfoote
Member
According to what I have read, The MK9 is designed for the pressures developed by a 115gr bullet loaded to 1300fps. This comes directly (supposedly) from Kahr, through an article written by Massad the Boob.
I think a lot of you guys are missing the point with the Rohrbaugh. If there is no way in heck that you are going to drop $1000 on a gun, and you feel you would be just as well served with a $200 Kel-Tec then I'm willing to bet that you are not the market they are going for.
However there are tons of gunnies out there who don't bat an eye when they drop $1,500 on a production 1911. These same guys take $1,400 classes at Gunsite, stay at nice hotels, and eat nice dinners at places that don't serve the food in a paper sack.
Rohrbaugh is a small company, they aren't going to be cranking out hundreds of thousands of these pistols. They aren't out to dominate the market that buys Rugers, Fegs, and Kel-Tecs. It is a niche market. So if you don't have the money, or the inclination to spend that kind of money, don't mock those who do.
I've handled a prototype. I was very impressed with it. I think that it is going to be an excellent weapon.
However there are tons of gunnies out there who don't bat an eye when they drop $1,500 on a production 1911. These same guys take $1,400 classes at Gunsite, stay at nice hotels, and eat nice dinners at places that don't serve the food in a paper sack.
Rohrbaugh is a small company, they aren't going to be cranking out hundreds of thousands of these pistols. They aren't out to dominate the market that buys Rugers, Fegs, and Kel-Tecs.
It is a niche market. So if you don't have the money, or the inclination to spend that kind of money, don't mock those who do. I've handled a prototype. I was very impressed with it. I think that it is going to be an excellent weapon.
Actually i would just give him the grand and then he wouldn't be disgruntled anymore
People routinely pay $1k for tricked out ARs and 1911s that they may not happen to have with them when they need them. I don't think it is unreasonalbe to pay MSRP for a gun that can pack the punch of a 9mm-p in a quardian size package.
Jeff OTMG
Member
9x19, that is to maximize profits at the B2B or manufacturer to retailer level. If they went the distributor route right away, they would be giving up $50 per gun, or more, since they are going to sell all that they can make for awhile. If you have 10,000 guns (they have orders for more than that) and you discount them $50 to distributors who order 1000 guns, you will lose $500,000 in profits on 10,000 guns in the first year. That would nearly pay for that extra CNC machine, in fact, they would probably leave enough profit on the table to cover the cost of the extra machine in the first year if they adopted distributor pricing.
Now that doesn't mean that the consumer gets off easy, but I would not be surprised to see the gun selling at OVER msrp as the Seecamp did for over 10 years since demand always outstripped production, until 1998-99. Larry Seecamp wasn't making the extra money, he was selling guns at $350 for 15 years, it was the dealer that were jacking the price to $650-$1100. Larry held his price. Rohrbaugh will do the same. Dealers will buy at a set price, but they will charge whatever the market will bear.
Now that doesn't mean that the consumer gets off easy, but I would not be surprised to see the gun selling at OVER msrp as the Seecamp did for over 10 years since demand always outstripped production, until 1998-99. Larry Seecamp wasn't making the extra money, he was selling guns at $350 for 15 years, it was the dealer that were jacking the price to $650-$1100. Larry held his price. Rohrbaugh will do the same. Dealers will buy at a set price, but they will charge whatever the market will bear.
tiberius
Member
Its still Vaproware, but if it ever does really appear in numbers, I'll take a look at it that's for sure.
I typically wouldn't spend a $1000 on a gun simply because there haven't been any handguns in that price range that interest me. I'm not into tricked out 1911's or others in that price range and all of the guns I have bought were never over $600, including my Sigs etc. However, being a person that pocket carries 90% of the time and having my handgun collection near completion, I think , I would definitely consider a Rohrbaugh in the future if it turns out to be a real gem. I personally believe that their success will solely depend on the reliability of this gun. If it works, and works well, they will make a fortune. If not, the Rohrbaugh will be a short lived curiosity. They are smart to fully test, develop and work out the bugs before bringing it to market. I don't think too many people would be happy if they had to do a fluff and buff on a $1000 gun. Mike
, I would definitely consider a Rohrbaugh in the future if it turns out to be a real gem. I personally believe that their success will solely depend on the reliability of this gun. If it works, and works well, they will make a fortune. If not, the Rohrbaugh will be a short lived curiosity. They are smart to fully test, develop and work out the bugs before bringing it to market. I don't think too many people would be happy if they had to do a fluff and buff on a $1000 gun. MikeRight on, Mike!
New guns are always a PITA in another respect. Until they're broken in, they're always stiff and subject to strange behavior. The first 100 rounds reveal how the gun is going to perform over the long haul. Chances are a gun will never have its barrel, slide, frame, or firing mechanism replaced. They have to seat together, and that takes 100 rounds or so.
For a $1,000 gem like the R-9 aspires to be, I think it would be a good idea for them to be fired for 100 or so rounds before the final QA inspection, cleaning, and packaging. Let the factory find and fix any teething problems so the guns are REALLY ready to be put into service when the owners get them.
Cor, while you are correct about there being people willing to drop several bills on a gun, I don't think this has much to do with what is being "mocked." The question is not at all how much one can spend. As an aside, your oh so cleverly hidden (that was mockery) underhanded insult of those who do not drop thousands at a time on a gun didn't go unnoticed. The real question is how much value is it? Are you getting $1000.00 worth of gun? What does the Rohrbaugh do that the P11, G26, or Kahrs don't? Seriously, what is it? But hey, its your money. Spend it how you want. But maybe you should spend less time underhandedly insulting those who don't understand what this price for this gun is for and spend a bit more time understanding what people are questioning. Sound like a plan, slick?
Sean Smith
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