Ruger 10mm revolver

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200Apples said:
I don't know what MAP means (mean absolute pressure?), but SAAMI recommended limits for .44 Spl are 15,000 psi and for older firearms.

A 250 grain LSWC or 260-ish LWN can be launched at 1100 fps within pressures safe for a Ruger medium-frame Blackhawk. Brian Pearce has labeled these Category II loads to 22,000 psi but only in certain guns. And then there are the Category III loads, but by that time I'll use my Old Model Super Blackhawk and Magnum brass, loads and bullets.

Guess it comes down to whether one prefers heavy slugs at leisurely velocities rather than lighter slugs truckin' along at a higher rate of speed. Thanks for your reply.
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SAAMI MAP, MAP stands for Maximum Average Pressure. For 44 Special it is 15,500 psi.

A 260gr @ 1100 fps seems really mighty warm form 44 Special. I have seen few 44 Special loads that exceed 500 ft-lbs let alone the nearly 700ft-lbs of that load. Interesting.
 
I know this is a 10mm wheelgun thread, so please forgive the threadjack of sorts...

Yes, one reason the .44 Special is so interesting is that, with the right revolvers (strong but just smaller than their Magnum counterparts) and handloading, it can cover a lot of the territory missing between the old 15,500 psi 246-grain LRN @ 750-ish fps and the .44 Mag's 240 grain @ 1400 fps. The sweet spot seems to be with a +/- 250 grain slug and at 950 - 1100 fps.

Thanks again.
 
mcb said:
SAAMI MAP, MAP stands for Maximum Average Pressure. For 44 Special it is 15,500 psi.

A 260gr @ 1100 fps seems really mighty warm form 44 Special. I have seen few 44 Special loads that exceed 500 ft-lbs let alone the nearly 700ft-lbs of that load. Interesting.
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.44 special can easily exceed the 10mm in weight and speed, the old .44 associates were known for pushing the .44 to loads that were in now .44 magnum territory, the only reason for the extension in the casing of the magnum cartridge was so people would not put them in older guns and hurt themselves but the Spl cases are more than capable of handling hot rounds. If you reload the .44 spl will give you more performance with higher bullet weights at similar velocities, if you dont reload the 10mm is more for you.
 
Since the topic of this thread is the Super Redhawk, I don't think there's any question that the 10mm can be easily surpassed by the handloaded .44Spl.
 
The Evangelist Cowboy said:
.44 special can easily exceed the 10mm in weight and speed, the old .44 associates were known for pushing the .44 to loads that were in now .44 magnum territory, the only reason for the extension in the casing of the magnum cartridge was so people would not put them in older guns and hurt themselves but the Spl cases are more than capable of handling hot rounds. If you reload the .44 spl will give you more performance with higher bullet weights at similar velocities, if you dont reload the 10mm is more for you.
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I believe you but at that point you are well above SAAMI MAP for 44 Special. No doubt there are modern 44 Special guns that can safety handle the above spec ammunition. But from an internet forum discussion point of view I resist comparing ammunition loaded above the industry standard specification for the cartridge if for no other reason than to have a consistent metrics to make comparison under.

ie 10mm Auto in a revolver with ammunition loaded near SAAMI MAP has significantly more muzzle energy than 44 Special in a similar barrel length revolver loaded near SAAMI MAP. JMHO it is very hard to quantify hot-rodded cartridge X vs hot-rodded cartridge Y.
 
mcb said:
I believe you but at that point you are well above SAAMI MAP for 44 Special. No doubt there are modern 44 Special guns that can safety handle the above spec ammunition. But from an internet forum discussion point of view I resist comparing ammunition loaded above the industry standard specification for the cartridge if for no other reason than to have a consistent metrics to make comparison under.

ie 10mm Auto in a revolver with ammunition loaded near SAAMI MAP has significantly more muzzle energy than 44 Special in a similar barrel length revolver loaded near SAAMI MAP. JMHO it is very hard to quantify hot-rodded cartridge X vs hot-rodded cartridge Y.
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It had nothing to do with "Modern Revolvers" these old guys were using Colt SAA's and Smith triple locks hardly considered to be modern by todays standards and the guns were still able to handle the loads. The ammo companies did not load the .44 to potential they loaded it to its parent case the .44 russian's specs, Going by SAAMI specs on this is not going to give you the real story, the reloaders of the day new the .44 spl's power was not being sufficiently used so they loaded appropriately and its not "hotrodding" you make it seem like they made the .44 into a .454 casull which is nonsense, they simply loaded to potential, a .44 spl loaded right wins hands down, the same way a 10mm loaded right beats the .40 smith but it depends on the load.
 
The Evangelist Cowboy said:
It had nothing to do with "Modern Revolvers" these old guys were using Colt SAA's and Smith triple locks hardly considered to be modern by todays standards and the guns were still able to handle the loads. The ammo companies did not load the .44 to potential they loaded it to its parent case the .44 russian's specs, Going by SAAMI specs on this is not going to give you the real story, the reloaders of the day new the .44 spl's power was not being sufficiently used so they loaded appropriately and its not "hotrodding" you make it seem like they made the .44 into a .454 casull which is nonsense, they simply loaded to potential, a .44 spl loaded right wins hands down, the same way a 10mm loaded right beats the .40 smith but it depends on the load.
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If your loading 44 Special over SAAMI spec and comparing it to 10mm loads then we should we not also included 10mm loads that are also loaded over SAAMI spec? I have seen load data for 10mm Auto loaded over 800 ft-lbs, but I typical don't think of 10mm Auto as an 800+ ft-lbs cartridge. I was simply making the case that if your going to compare cartridges doing so with ammo loaded to SAAMI (or even CIP) industry standards seem the best/fairest way to do it. YMMV.
 
And as the author of this thread's detour through a .44 Spl wonderland, I had only wished to know if I might have a good 10mm load covered in the form of a .44 cartridge and in a whirlenpopper extant in my armory. Please forgive me.
 
mcb said:
If your loading 44 Special over SAAMI spec and comparing it to 10mm loads then we should we not also included 10mm loads that are also loaded over SAAMI spec? I have seen load data for 10mm Auto loaded over 800 ft-lbs, but I typical don't think of 10mm Auto as an 800+ ft-lbs cartridge. I was simply making the case that if your going to compare cartridges doing so with ammo loaded to SAAMI (or even CIP) industry standards seem the best/fairest way to do it. YMMV.
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We could but even then the .44 caliber retains the advantage with higher bullet weights. The 10mm is a fine cartridge but people seem to forget that its fine for what it is and that it isnt in the same realm as other calibers that exceed it.
 
200Apples said:
And as the author of this thread's detour through a .44 Spl wonderland, I had only wished to know if I might have a good 10mm load covered in the form of a .44 cartridge and in a whirlenpopper extant in my armory. Please forgive me.
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10mm is a fine round, I wouldnt hesitate to use it for hogs, black bear, white tail (maybe some of the other deer family?), and even lower 48 hiking protection in fact I just switched out my EDC to a Glock 29 in 10mm, but I always keep a .357 on me as back up as well.
 
mcb said:
If your loading 44 Special over SAAMI spec and comparing it to 10mm loads then we should we not also included 10mm loads that are also loaded over SAAMI spec?
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Probably but while the 15,500psi .44Spl has A LOT of room for improvement, there's nowhere to go with the 10mm. It doesn't have the case capacity to gain anything by loading over standard pressures. It doesn't even have the case capacity to use the best powders for the job....at all.


mcb said:
I have seen load data for 10mm Auto loaded over 800 ft-lbs, but I typical don't think of 10mm Auto as an 800+ ft-lbs cartridge.
Click to expand...
Sorry but when I start seeing a bunch of quotes about foot-pounds, my eyes start to glaze over. If there was ever a more useless metric for comparing cartridges, I don't know what it is.

Yes, the .44Spl can be handloaded to easily exceed the 10mm but that ain't really the point as there is no factory option. Not to me anyway. If you're doing that you're a handloader and any other cartridge can be handloaded to do whatever you need it to. IMHO, the biggest selling point of the 10mm SRH is the availability of decent factory ammo and cheap .40S&W ammo for practice. Both of which are plentiful and lower recoil than any of your rimmed magnums. I still think the SRH is too much gun for the cartridge but there is none better for mounting optics and I can see how it would appeal to some folks. Particularly those averse to heavy recoil and those already heavily invested in the 10mm.
 
CraigC said:
Probably but while the 15,500psi .44Spl has A LOT of room for improvement, there's nowhere to go with the 10mm. It doesn't have the case capacity to gain anything by loading over standard pressures. It doesn't even have the case capacity to use the best powders for the job....at all.



Sorry but when I start seeing a bunch of quotes about foot-pounds, my eyes start to glaze over. If there was ever a more useless metric for comparing cartridges, I don't know what it is.

Yes, the .44Spl can be handloaded to easily exceed the 10mm but that ain't really the point as there is no factory option. Not to me anyway. If you're doing that you're a handloader and any other cartridge can be handloaded to do whatever you need it to. IMHO, the biggest selling point of the 10mm SRH is the availability of decent factory ammo and cheap .40S&W ammo for practice. Both of which are plentiful and lower recoil than any of your rimmed magnums. I still think the SRH is too much gun for the cartridge but there is none better for mounting optics and I can see how it would appeal to some folks. Particularly those averse to heavy recoil and those already heavily invested in the 10mm.
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Now if they made the SuperBlackhawk Hunter in the 10mm which would you prefer?
 
I really like the Super Blackhawk Hunter (Bisley). We got Dad one several years ago. It's a good shooter and he loves it but I prefer the scope mount over the frame, rather than the barrel. No doubt it's better looking but for utility, I prefer the SRH. I think the large frame Blackhawk is also too much gun for the cartridge so I still think a GP Hunter would be ideal for that cartridge.

IMG_7806b.jpg

It's probably the biggest reason why my scoped single action is an FA. That and I wanted a .45 with proper chamber dimensions.

IMG_9530b.jpg
 
The Evangelist Cowboy said:
Now if they made the SuperBlackhawk Hunter in the 10mm which would you prefer?
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Still seems like a big heavy revolver for the 10mm Auto cartridge. And a side-gate loading revolver eliminates the biggest advantage to chambering a revolver in a rimless cartridge. Moonclips!!!
 
mcb said:
Still seems like a big heavy revolver for the 10mm Auto cartridge. And a side-gate loading revolver eliminates the biggest advantage to chambering a revolver in a rimless cartridge. Moonclips!!!
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Actually, it eliminates the biggest hassle of rimless cartridges in revolvers, moon clips!
 
I bought a Super Redhawk 10mm last week. It's the 6 1/2" model. I already load 10mm for a Sig P220 and a Ruger SR 1911 so a revolver appealed to me. This one has a tight, even b/c gap, good forcing cone and rifling and mirror like chambers. Throats are uniform at .401" so un-coated lead bullets don't cause leading. Took it to the range with various factory and hand loads. Turns out this is the most accurate of the many revolvers I have. Off a rest at 25 yards it easily grouped 7/8" to 1 1/2" and 2" to 2 1/2" with various plated bullets. 200 grain XTP's with a stiff charge of #9 were the best. A cast 165gr SWC over 3.7 Bullseye grouped 1 1/4". It will be fun to work up loads without some of the restrictions of autos. One of the benefits of a heavy-for-caliber gun is the POI doesn't change as much with different loads as a lighter gun.

I like that moon clips are for extraction and not headspacing. The warmest loads i tried were easy to pluck out. I have some 9mm and 45 acp S&W revolvers that need moons for headspacing, especially a 986 and a 929. The 10mm SRH clips are east to load by hand but a de-mooning tool is a good idea. The action on mine is very smooth, but pretty heavy. Good thing the springs are easy to change.
 
That's not the hard part. The "Hunter" version is the trick. An ability to mount an optic with an integrated system so we don't have to ditch our iron sights.

Ropers%20012b.jpg
 
Jack B. said:
Sorry , guess I'm just old fashioned. Don't like the idea of having to use aids (moon clips) to make a round work in a gun. Who uses moon clips on a rimmed cartridge? Why? Never used moon clips on a revolver. Don't figure I ever will.:)
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Me :) I'm the proud owner of a S&W 625 Jerry Miculek revolver in .45 ACP. You should try it at least once ;)
 
10 mm Auto revolver? Nawwwww, I’ll pass. Won’t do anything my 357 GP100 Match Champion stoked with Buffalo Bore or Grizzly 180 grain RNFP-GC won’t do. It belongs in a semiautomatic pistol.
 
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