Safe - purchase problem

[.cheese.]

As of the moment I have Walmart "Sentinal" (really Stack-On rebranded for Walmart) safes for my pistols. I have 6 of them that I bolted together and then semi-locked them in a wire shelving unit by placing the top shelf which has a hangover piece right on top of the bolted together safes. It's pretty heavy, so to get it out, somebody would have to take off the top shelf (needs a hammer to do that) and then carry this fairly large bolted together unit out. It's not the best security, but it was all I could afford at the time. The other way a thief coudl get in is by cutting through, which unfortunately wouldn't be too hard considering that the metal isn't very thick.

Now I've got some rifles (before I just had 1 10/22 that sat in a rifle range-bag atop a shelf with the lock through the action) and I need to get a rifle safe.

My problem is the following.

I live in 2 places. My parents' house (occasionally) and my apartment which is 50 miles away from there (where I live 99% of the time). I keep my guns in my apartment and would be putting the rifle safe in my apartment. Getting a big safe to the top floor of my complex would be very difficult, and through the door would be a challenge.

I don't plan to live in my apartment much longer. In about 1 and 1/2 years I'll be moving likely to the opposite side of the country.

So - my question is - Walmart has rebranded Stack-On rifle safes that are something like $79.99. Should I buy one of those to put my rifles in (rifles are going to soon be Savage Arms Mark II-FV, 2 AR's, and possibly a Marlin model 60).... and then wait until I move somewhere to get a real quality safe that I can actually bolt to the floor (can't do that where I live or my landlord will whoop my behind - that's before he charges me to fix the floor)?

I don't see many other options... aside from leaving the rifles unsecured... which would bother me.

What do you guys think?

Eventually I want to get a really nice safe to put all my guns in... but both the size, cost, and storage space, are all a problem right now.

 

[.cheese.]

Also - mods - if this is in the wrong place, I apologize. I tried finding the best forum for it, but I'm still getting into the swing of things here and figuring out what goes where.

Feel free to move it if it's in the wrong place.

 

[Geno]

Do a search

Do a search and you will find many excellent threads here about safes, and definitions, etc. This is my thought: you need to invest in a safe...sooner rather than later. There are many excellent models on the market, and many go on sale for as little as $300.00 at Dunhams. Stack-On works for cleaning rods, bullets, etc, but for my firearms...no. Even if you have to take out a short-term loan, better to make 12 months of payments and have your firearms secure. Here are three search results:

1) http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=255836&highlight=safes

2) http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=255792&highlight=safes

3) http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=255452&highlight=safes

Best of luck in your search.

Doc2005

 

[.cheese.]

Well, cost was a problem back when I got the other Stack-ons.....

it's not so much as of the moment. Mainly space, and weight are the problems.... and also, when I move, I'm worried moving a big safe might be difficult and expensive.

I was hoping to get buy with something smaller and less expensive for the next 1 and 1/2 years and just rig it to be more secure..... so that when it comes time to move, I can sell it at a garage sale (at my parents' place LOL) and then when I move, then invest in a serious safe that can stay put for a long period of time.

 

[.cheese.]

I poked around the archives here and found some recommendations, but most seem a bit large and heavy when you factor in the thicker metal, etc.... and some even had concrete as part of the design.

I need something that is lightweight and relatively small (can fit maybe 4-5 rifles).

Then I can work with it to get it bolted or chain secured to the side of my gun-rack shelving unit with the pistol safes.... as for ammo, I have all my ammo in separately marked ammo cans each locked with a separate lock, and a chain connecting them all with a lock on that.

I'm trying to do the best I can in this apartment situation, but looking back, I really wish I had just rented a house.

 

[Geno]

Modular safes

There are modular safe available that reduce the moving expense/difficulties. I agree about the weight. My vault weighs in around 800Lbs...to much. If I were buying a new vault, i would seek a much smaller, say 350 to 400Lbs vault and assure it had bolt holes for the floor/walls. By the way, NO vault is 100% secure...none! Be thinking a head of how to conceal it as best you can. Never tell others you have a vault, nor even the kind. Stack-on DOES make some "vaults" you know. Seem to be good prices too (see link for this 115 Lbs safe):

http://www.stack-on.com/securityplus/gun_safes/gs-8.html

It may be a bit too light.

Edited to add: Just for kicks, take a look at this:

http://www.americanlocker.com/pistol_locker_aw.htm?gclid=CJazx9jsvYoCFSthIgod70ciOw

or this one:

http://vlineind.com/html/long_gun_case.html

Doc2005

 

[CB900F]

TheEconomist;

In your situation, I'd buy the least expensive RSC that meets your needs for the present. There isn't all that much protective difference between any of them that sell for under $1000.00.

However, once you do get moved & want to purchase a quality unit, there are some choices to make. I'd be glad to answer your questions when that time comes.

Now then, safes do not go on sale for as little as $300.00 anywhere. RSC's do, but then you're back into nothing better than what you're contemplating buying now. Doc is semi-sorta correct in saying that no vault is 100% secure. After all, we, the U.S., got into the national vaults of Iraq. It just took this nation's military might to accomplish it. Which brings me to the point. A true safe will deter 99%, or better, of the thieves who'd like to gain access to it's interior. At the level of true safe, you are operating much like your local bank does. Yes, the bank can get robbed most any time, but when was the last time somebody actually did a forced entry into the vault? Much easier to put a gun to a teller's head & demand the till cash from the teller line.

A true safe is extremely likely to provide you with lifetime protection from residential burglary. And, a good one will also provide you with superior fire protection. By and large, home burglars are not sophisticated enough to compromise a true home safe. The burglars that are that sophisticated are not trying to make a living doing homes.

900F

 

[Geno]

Bolt it down!!!

The most important aspect is to keep it bolted securely to the floor and walls!!! Even a 1,250 pound safe can be wheeled out of your house. My safe weighs in at about 1250 pounds, and believe it or not, when we purchased our current home, I actually moved it ALONE with a simple two-wheeled cart that also has two very small skateboard-like wheels at the top.

My brother was a deputy, then a detective for 20+ years. He always said, "A safe simply slows people down. All it takes is 1) motive, 2) opportunity, 3) time and 4) a few simple tools i.e. a Dremel. With these four, nearly any safe can be compromised. Those that can't be compromised, can be dragged off-site and smashed & trashed". Witness ATMs. Secure as Fort Knox but can easily be dragged off. For what it is worth, when I had my safe’s lock changed about 2 years ago, I asked the locksmith how long it would take for someone to get into my safe. He stated that, “…even an inexperienced person can get into most ‘safes’ (i.e. Winchester, Weatherby, Remington, Cannon, etc.) with a Dremel in less than an hour”. Those cost nearly $2,000.00! He said mine might take a few hours, but again, it's just time.

I would add to CB900F's statements that after you get settled and buy that second, genuine "safe", keep your original cheapo safe to store the ammunition. Many people under-estimate the worth of their ammunition, knives, compass, etc. Yet, these take up a lot of space in the mega-safe with your firearms. When you have more time, more money, it is best to have two...one ultra-secure for the firearms, and the other for other items. Just my opinion.

Doc2005

 

[.cheese.]

That's precisely the problem. I can't bolt it to the floor where I live.

So my plan was just to chain/bolt as much of my firearms related stuff together so that it can't just be rolled away, and instead a burglar would have to work to file/cut things apart.

 

[1 old 0311]

Load the bottom with full ammo cans, or bricks. 2-3 heavy chains padlocked around the center would also slow things down. Also consider this: www.stopthecrime.com

 

[willy1094]

I am very happy with my Stack-on elite. It is fire rated and around 300 350 lbs. It is a 24 long-gun safe or you can make one side into a shelf unit for pistols ammo etc. I paid 499 at dick's and it took only two people and a fridge dolly (with strap) that i rented from Homedepot for something like 12 bucks to get it up the steps in my house.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Willy1094 points out precisely TheEconomist's problem. He can't bolt it down & it only takes two enterprising thieves & a fridge dolly to remove an RSC from the property.

Given the situation, here's an idea that may provide a solution. I believe that Radio Shack has either the plans or a ready-built motion detector/prox alarm. So either buy or build & firmly attach to the cabinet. If it's possible to adjust the delay or sensitivity parameters, you're in good shape. Opening the door & removing guns, whatever, can be done in a fairly short time, under a minute. But tipping & moving the container with a 120db siren whooping is another story.

900F

 

[Stan_TheGunNut]

I applaud you for wanting to keep your guns secure, and also understand the limitiations that you have with respect to your living arrangements, financial constraints, etc. Here is what I did when I lived in an apartment and prior to getting a "Residential Security Container" which I call a gun safe. People who lease are unique in that they can have 'authorized' folks come into their home who they may not know.

I went to Lowes' and got two eyebolts, each with a course thread, with the bolt being about 1/4 inch diameter and about 4 inches long. The eye was about 3/4 inches in diamater. I also got a long shank padlock, and a bicycle locking cable.

Inside a closet, you can predrill some small holes into a stud, one about 3 inches above the other. Screw in the eyebolts into the stud, one above the other, making sure the padlock will fit through both. This will prevent someone from screwing them out. It is a little bit of work, and I suggest having some channel lock plyers available to screw in the eyebolts.

You can then slide the bicycle cable thru the trigger guards or other suitable location, and hook the crimped ends of the bicycle lock thru the padlock and in the eybolts. If you have need more space, or for other reasons, you can get another padlock and a couple of more eyebolts, and make for a longer connection as you see fit.

As additional security, you can also remove the bolts and place them in your stakon safe, install other locks thru the trigger guards or actions, etc. This setup worked for me as a temporary fix. It's more secure than just leaving the stuff laying around, and it's total cost is low. The padlock I used was the most expensive item, and I total cost was under 20 bucks.

Doing this inside a closet hid the guns out of sight. Also, there was no damage done to the apartment. It was easy to remove the padlock, unscrew the eyebolts, and then spackle over them. Plus, the 'damage' to the sheetrock was hidden in the closet, and was never even noticed since I repaired the small holes due to the eyebolts.

I would also suggest you get renters insurance (it's cheap) and write down all the serial numbers for your guns. While this is far from the most secure thing you can do...it does help keep the honest, well, honest.

 

[another okie]

If you are sure you're moving soon you might consider buying a lockable rifle case of the kind air travelers use and chaining it or bolting it to something substanial. It's not as good as a safe, but it is cheaper and something you probably need anyway, and it will be easy to move.

 

[bofe954]

You can check out zanotti armor. If you search a lot of people here use them. They aren't cheap, they aren't perfect and they still should be bolted down but..

They are fairly easy to move and install when disassembled, they are fairly heavy (especially when full of ammo and such) and fairly secure. The middle of the road ones weigh around 700-800lbs empty.

I bought one because I have a move or two in my future and because you can assemble them in closets. My hope is that a burgler would be in and out of my house before he even found it.