Scout Rifle madness...
- Thread starter artech
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I don't think so Cosmoline.... We do this to make good rifles... better!! Let's both take our rifles hunting. Say that it rains.. All I have to do is swab out the barrel and its free from rusting.. Yours.. spend a half and hour tearing it apart. Dry everything off and then re-oil.. oh and I forgot. Put it back together again. I'll take a painted rifle hunting everytime.
As for accuracy... So far i've only had a chance to sight it in at 60yd.. but everything went in at under an inch. This updated old puppy will shoot with the best of them!
As for accuracy... So far i've only had a chance to sight it in at 60yd.. but everything went in at under an inch. This updated old puppy will shoot with the best of them!
Cosmoline
Member
Well since I had the good sense to leave my HANDGUARD on, no I don't have to strip it down after taking it out in the field. The most I need to do is put a new coat of wax on it once a year.
Your rifle, OTOH, is less accurate, less powerful and has got to throw a flame a few feet long. Not to mention what it does to eardrums. I'll stick with my Tikka. I'd also like to see how well that paint holds up after a few thousand rounds through the barrel. My base finish has already lasted since 1944. I just put some new BLO on the top of it plus some wax, and it's good to go for another fifty years.
Your rifle, OTOH, is less accurate, less powerful and has got to throw a flame a few feet long. Not to mention what it does to eardrums. I'll stick with my Tikka. I'd also like to see how well that paint holds up after a few thousand rounds through the barrel. My base finish has already lasted since 1944. I just put some new BLO on the top of it plus some wax, and it's good to go for another fifty years.
cracked butt
Member
Or cheap rifles with some historical value almost valueless.
You say tomayto I say tomahto.....
To some sporterizing is a sin.. this rifle when I bought it had a cracked stock. A bent bayo and front sight. Henceforth the $45 price tag. Historical valve wasted I'm sure.. But in the condition I bought it in.. no one wanted it. Now when I take it to the range. Almost everyone wants to try it and gives it good gudos.. I did check to make sure it wasn't a rare or low prodution rfle, It wasn't. So I ( and many others ) feel better to make something useful, than to have a not so pretty paperwieght!
Pretty much why I do Carcanos. Nobody wants them. BTW, I do keep a veteran M91 fusil in as-issued condition and wouldn't change it. Nice to remember where she came from. 
As I always say, YMMV and all that. If we all thought the same, what the hell would we talk about?
As I always say, YMMV and all that. If we all thought the same, what the hell would we talk about?
KadicDeshi
Member
BrianC, I'd really like to know how you made that mount. I have a Hungarian M44 that I'd like to do something similar with. But I believe I'll be sticking with basic black save for the bolt, which is a bent, swept, polished stainless aftermarket.
Cosmoline, no offense, but I really don't think your Tikka is all that much better looking. I've always kind of cringed whenever I saw that picture, trying to figure out how you managed any kind of cheek weld with the combination of that mount and those rings.
I'm not gonna argue that but I will say that without providing emperical evidence that the point is debatable.
True.
You say that like it's a bad thing!
Cosmoline, no offense, but I really don't think your Tikka is all that much better looking. I've always kind of cringed whenever I saw that picture, trying to figure out how you managed any kind of cheek weld with the combination of that mount and those rings.
I'm not gonna argue that but I will say that without providing emperical evidence that the point is debatable.
True.
You say that like it's a bad thing!
I don't think it's such a bad idea, if what you want is a (very) compact rifle; pretty good for hiking, if you wanted to take a carbine. I think I would have gone with an open sight or aperture sight setup (is that even possible with a Carcano?) instead of the LER scope.
You know, if you leave it in that green color, all you need to do is affix some bolts to the side of the stock, then you can proudly announce ...
"IT'S ALIVE ... CARCANO-STEIN IS ALIVE!!!!! ALLLIIIIIIIVVVVVVE!!!!!!!!"
Just kidding!
You know, if you leave it in that green color, all you need to do is affix some bolts to the side of the stock, then you can proudly announce ...
"IT'S ALIVE ... CARCANO-STEIN IS ALIVE!!!!! ALLLIIIIIIIVVVVVVE!!!!!!!!"
Just kidding!
brianc,
Details, details! Please - tell us all the details on that Mosin scout. I like it.
What is the barrel length? Kind of stock... kind of paint... who painted it... scope mount... what scope, etc...
Did you do all the work on it?
That's a slick little concept.
Details, details! Please - tell us all the details on that Mosin scout. I like it.
What is the barrel length? Kind of stock... kind of paint... who painted it... scope mount... what scope, etc...
Did you do all the work on it?
That's a slick little concept.
Cosmoline
Member
Tikka 91/30 vs. hacked up Bubba Ruskie. Not much of a contest.
"Madness" is the right word for this. Hacking up perfectly good war rifles and painting them outrageous colors. Why don't you go abuse a Remchester?
I've got a Finnish M-27 over in the corner of the room--or what's left of one. Some idiot hacked the barrel down to 18", tore off the rear sight and replaced it with a cruddy weaver mount, cut the reiver and bent the bolt. All to be more like the American rifles the shooter was used to. In the process the numbskull took a rifle currently flying up in value and turned it into a $50 pile of parts.
IF YOU WANT AN AMERICAN STYLE HUNTING RIFLE, GO BUY A SAVAGE! It will cost less and your results will be far better. Don't go bastardizing some WWII vintage iron by bending the bolt, hacking the barrel, destroying the stock, tearing off the tangent sights, etc.
KadicDeshi
Member
If you're talking in generalities, then yeah, I'll agree. But it seemed to me you meant your rifle and BrianC's rifle. And I haven't seen a target from either of you, so I don't know. I'm just saying that it's possible the Russians had a good day with that carbine. Infinite number of monkeys on typewriters and the complete works of Shakespeare and all that.
And that's where I'm gonna have to flat out disagree with you. Do you know of a single modern production sporting rifle that utilizes stripper clips/chargers? How about forward scope mounts? I can only think of three on that count and one's way out of my price range, the other I'd have to scrimp and save for, and the last has too short of a barrel for my tastes. How many have the hammer-and-wrench-simple action of a Mosin? How many use such inexpensive ammunition?
I'm not meaning to be argumentative or anything. I guess I'm just saying that just because I'm sportering a mil-surp doesn't necessarily mean I'm completely ignorant of viable options. Sometimes those options just don't exist or would be more expensive to add what would be necessary to get what you want on a modern rifle.
Barrett
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Cosmoline
Member
What is it you think you've gained by hacking the barrel as short as possible and painting the thing? The existing designs survived two world wars and countless regional conflicts without people feeling a need to put them in Monte Carlo stocks or paint them.
By removing the handguard, for example, you open the barrel up to exposure from the elements. So then you have to protect it, hence the paint. But the paint can't withstand the barrel temp extremes and will start to crack and fall off. And then you've got rust. So why don't you just leave the handguard on?
Nor do you need to hack, slash and paint to rig a scout style scope. Use the exising rear tangent base and one of Darrell's mounts. It serves the same purpose and the rifle can be returned to its original state.
I'm not some collector or purist. I'm just a guy who's had many long years of experience with military surplus rifles and Mosin-Nagants in particular. I've been there and done that, and let me tell you it's a waste of time and money.
By removing the handguard, for example, you open the barrel up to exposure from the elements. So then you have to protect it, hence the paint. But the paint can't withstand the barrel temp extremes and will start to crack and fall off. And then you've got rust. So why don't you just leave the handguard on?
Nor do you need to hack, slash and paint to rig a scout style scope. Use the exising rear tangent base and one of Darrell's mounts. It serves the same purpose and the rifle can be returned to its original state.
I'm not some collector or purist. I'm just a guy who's had many long years of experience with military surplus rifles and Mosin-Nagants in particular. I've been there and done that, and let me tell you it's a waste of time and money.
KadicDeshi
Member
I think that we may have gone a bit far afield from the original post. To help prevent any further thread drift, I suggest we either start a new thread or take it to PMs if you really want to continue the discussion. However, I doubt that we'd get much further than where we are. A case of having to agree to disagree, I think. That said, I'm happy to let my comments stand as they are.
Barrett
Barrett
brianc, i like your MN, I did an Enfield in a similar style a while ago.
And fellers, if you don't like my carc-scout, then you're really gonna hate this one. I started building it after watching "Nausicaa", a Japanese anime cartoon, as a reasonable facsimile of a cartoon rifle.
Hey, why be normal?
It's BORING!!
And fellers, if you don't like my carc-scout, then you're really gonna hate this one. I started building it after watching "Nausicaa", a Japanese anime cartoon, as a reasonable facsimile of a cartoon rifle.
Hey, why be normal?
It's BORING!!Attachments
Cosmoline
Member
Actually, as long as you don't go cutting metal I don't care so much. If you want to put some wild MG-42 stock on a Mosin knock yourself out. Just don't hack things you can't replace and don't paint barrels. Paint is not a proper finish for gun barrels or receivers. All historical issues aside, it's just the wrong tool for the job. Like trying to use WD-40 where you should be using grease.
Third_Rail
Member
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artech, I REALLY like that stock - I'm making a Nausicaa replica rifle as well - one like the rifle she uses when she's in the big battle. Only I'm making it from a .410 shotgun...
R.W.Dale
Member
Tell that to the British, I guess I'll have to send my SMLE's off to be blued. Now if only I could get that pesky suncorite off.
Third Rail, it's actually 3 stocks built into one. An MG-34 butt, the Carcano middle, and a Mauser forend I had lying around. Still need to find some brass strapping for the barrel bands. I wanted to start with a 12-guage Mauser bolt action because it seemed to be about the right scale, but I couldn't find one cheap enough. So, the Carcano. I'm not real happy with the stock finish and am thinking of fiberglassing over the whole thing to hide the seams better. Still debating the wisdom of cutting out the trigger guard...
Just curious, what did you do on yours about the sight issue? Apparently Miyazaki didn't believe in drawing sights on his rifles. Believe it or not, the stock and pistol grip make this rifle one of the most natural pointers I've ever built, and it's super comfortable to shoot. Just gotta do something about sights!
Just curious, what did you do on yours about the sight issue? Apparently Miyazaki didn't believe in drawing sights on his rifles. Believe it or not, the stock and pistol grip make this rifle one of the most natural pointers I've ever built, and it's super comfortable to shoot. Just gotta do something about sights!
Third_Rail
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Shotgun with a tiny bead sight solves the sight issue for me. I've stuck with all wood so far, and I'm going to use (most likely) .050" thick brass for the bands. I'll PM you pictures when/if I ever finish it.
Mumbles_45
Member
I like it. A lot. Especially now that it doesn't have the plastic army man look.
aloharover
Member
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- Jan 26, 2006
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I didn't see in the OP, what scope did you use?
It's a cheapo NC Star 2.5x in Weaver 4x4 rings on an XS mount. Cheap, simple, and good enough for what I'm doing with it. Never had an issue with this setup, and I've used the exact same equipment on .303 Brit and .308 rifles without any complaints. I did have an NC Star variable-power scope quit on me a while back, but the fixed-power ones just keep on keepin' on. Best bang for the buck IMHO.
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