Expanding on my previous thread (LCP vs seecamp) several things seem to have a common denominator. First, 99% of the seecamp owners really like their gun, second, there seems to be general agreement that seecamps do prefer some ammo over others, although, the newer productions are less impacted by various ammos. And lastly, .32 is an acceptable compromise over the .380. (Of course, in reality, the .380 is a compromise over .45) It is apparent that at least one owner, some years ago, got the lemon of the century (I wonder if seecamp offered to exchange the entire gun). For DW (de wife) carrying a .32 is better than nothing and since NRA noted that over 90% of confrontations where "resolved" just by drawing a weapon, the probabilty is low it will be needed to actually fire-but, for the record, I won't carry one empty. I will be buying 2 guns, the LCP for me when the Ruger SP101 is too heavy, and the .32 for DW. I have two more questions for this great group of memebers. First, since the seecamp has a preference for one, or several, kinds of ammo, is there some assurances the ammo manufacturer won't change the design/process of the ammo which will have a negative impact on the seecamp dependability? and secondly, I'm hearing about the California version which looks like a safety "button" to keep the trigger from being pulled back. If you had a choice, would you buy the California (whacky liberal) version or not since it would be another "step" after drawing the weapon to fire? Big, big thanks to all those who responed to my earlier question. What a great site!!
seecamp and ammo marriage
- Thread starter vandave
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Seecamp! I love those little guns.
The trigger pull alone of the regular Seecamp is heavy enough that, for me, it's all the safety needed. Likelihood of accidental discharge is pretty damn low. If at all possible check out both variants at a gun store to see which you prefer - but personally I wouldn't buy the CA version. Seems like added complexity, an added step to firing, mechanically unnecessary and added only for legal reasons.
The trigger pull alone of the regular Seecamp is heavy enough that, for me, it's all the safety needed. Likelihood of accidental discharge is pretty damn low. If at all possible check out both variants at a gun store to see which you prefer - but personally I wouldn't buy the CA version. Seems like added complexity, an added step to firing, mechanically unnecessary and added only for legal reasons.
usp9
Member
No quarantees about what ammo will be available but the Seecamp isn't as picky as myth holds it to be. My old pre CNC model will feed and fire any ammo that fits the magazine and that is about 6 or so currently produced brands. Larry Seecamp advises one to find a good brand, then buy a large supply of that batch. I've yet to find a brand of hollow point .32acp that won't work.
No safety on any of my CCWs, so the answer is "NO". I prefer my CCWs simple
The ammo recommendations for Seecamp pistols are clearly stated on Seecamp's website. For years, .32 Silvertip was "the" ammo, but Winchester changed the bullet configuration and OAL of the cartridge a bit. My former LWS-32 ran 100% on the older Silvertips, but I foolishly sold the little pistol, as I rarely carried it, had bought it before they became trendy, and was able to easily get my money back out of it, in spite of some holster wear.
Recently, I acquired another LWS-32, and it choked once in 100 rounds of the new Silvertips. I bought enough Gold Dots, which is on the current recommended list, for a break-in/function test, but have yet to shoot enough rounds to be sure, though it has worked so far.
The normal Seecamp pistols have a heavy enough pull, and a long enough trigger stroke, that I see no benefit in an added Khalisforniastan-mandated safety device. My SIG P229 duty pistol, with their DAK triggers, and my Ruger and S&W revolvers, don't have extra safety levers, either.
Recently, I acquired another LWS-32, and it choked once in 100 rounds of the new Silvertips. I bought enough Gold Dots, which is on the current recommended list, for a break-in/function test, but have yet to shoot enough rounds to be sure, though it has worked so far.
The normal Seecamp pistols have a heavy enough pull, and a long enough trigger stroke, that I see no benefit in an added Khalisforniastan-mandated safety device. My SIG P229 duty pistol, with their DAK triggers, and my Ruger and S&W revolvers, don't have extra safety levers, either.
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I missed the first thread.
How much do you like your wife?
That would be the question I'd ask myself, if I were thinking of buying her a microscopic .32 with no sights, as a primary carry gun. As a backup, or a deep cover piece, the Seecamps are great and I have every intention of buying a .380 someday.
But for a primary/only piece, I would refuse to consider anything weaker than 9mm Parabellum. Have you looked into the Kahr PM9? It's larger than the Seecamp, but not a lot heavier (16 ounces with empty magazine), and in a service caliber.
I've had the chance to shoot a CW9 before (the budget version of the slightly larger P9). Recoil felt like someone pushing on the muzzle with one finger, and the trigger was about 5-6 pounds and very smooth.
9mm is a huge step up from .32 or .380, and a PM9 would almost definitely kick less. Those micro blowbacks tend to have a vicious snap.
My biggest problem with the Seecamp .32s, though, is that they won't work with FMJs. You need ammo that penetrates deep. People are all different sizes, and self-defense shootings take place from all different angles. Like if you're flat on your back, shooting at a guy standing over you, the bullet may need to go through several inches of stomach before it hits anything vital. And of course, a .32 FMJ would make a very tiny hole. The JHPs, if they expand, just don't penetrate enough to reach vital organs unless you get in an absolutely perfect shot.
Any caliber that forces me to choose between narrow and deep, or wide and shallow, is one that I would carry as a backup or holdout piece only. 9mm and .38+P are where you start getting wide and deep as an option.
How much do you like your wife?
That would be the question I'd ask myself, if I were thinking of buying her a microscopic .32 with no sights, as a primary carry gun. As a backup, or a deep cover piece, the Seecamps are great and I have every intention of buying a .380 someday.
But for a primary/only piece, I would refuse to consider anything weaker than 9mm Parabellum. Have you looked into the Kahr PM9? It's larger than the Seecamp, but not a lot heavier (16 ounces with empty magazine), and in a service caliber.
I've had the chance to shoot a CW9 before (the budget version of the slightly larger P9). Recoil felt like someone pushing on the muzzle with one finger, and the trigger was about 5-6 pounds and very smooth.
9mm is a huge step up from .32 or .380, and a PM9 would almost definitely kick less. Those micro blowbacks tend to have a vicious snap.
My biggest problem with the Seecamp .32s, though, is that they won't work with FMJs. You need ammo that penetrates deep. People are all different sizes, and self-defense shootings take place from all different angles. Like if you're flat on your back, shooting at a guy standing over you, the bullet may need to go through several inches of stomach before it hits anything vital. And of course, a .32 FMJ would make a very tiny hole. The JHPs, if they expand, just don't penetrate enough to reach vital organs unless you get in an absolutely perfect shot.
Any caliber that forces me to choose between narrow and deep, or wide and shallow, is one that I would carry as a backup or holdout piece only. 9mm and .38+P are where you start getting wide and deep as an option.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Speer Gold Dots
work extremely well in my LWS-32~!
work extremely well in my LWS-32~!
PX15
Member
JMOfartO:
For those of you concerned about the Seecamp pistol and it's appreciation/or lack thereof for certain brands of ammunition, if you care to, go to the www.seecamp.com forum and read the posts on the AMMUNITION section.
You will probably be screaming TMI, TMI before you wade through all the posts on that subject.
Personally the LWS32's of both myself and my wife are quite happy with Speer Gold Dots (jhp's).
Larry Seecamp recommends that "whatever" jhp you find that you chose to cc in your Seecamp you buy a box of whatever it is, and shoot all but 7 rounds in THAT box.. If the pistol functions perfectly with THAT box, then load the final seven rounds in your Seecamp and you are good to go.
The problem as I understand it is NOT with the Seecamp pistols, but with the variation in length in the manufactured ammo.. Tolerances in the Seecamp are tight because the pistol is so small... Tolerances in ammo varies from batch to batch, tho not by much.. But it doesn't take much variation to cause problems in the Seecamp.
I agree with the gentleman who mentioned that a 32cal, or even 380 cal. firearm is not a desirable first choice for a cc weapon. Bigger caliber, bigger rounds, and the more of them, all the better.
But here in SE Ga. there seem to be only 4 days a year it's cold enough to wear an overgarment, which would offer concealment for that "bigger, more" self defense weapon... For the other 99% of the year most of us by circumstance are limited to a very small, very concealable cc firearm..
We're talking KT, Ruger, Beretta, NAA, Seecamp mouseguns.
I've owned one P32, one Tomcat, two NAA (32cal.)Guardians, and with the exception of the Tomcat, they all did a fine job. I might one day buy a Ruger LCP, but I'm leery of 1st series anythings, so I want to wait a spell while the "instant gratification" folks Beta Test the bugs out for me.
None of those pistols were any easier to conceal than my Seecamp LWS32. I carry my LWS32 daily in a rear pocket (wallet style) holster, and it makes the trip with my anytime I pick up my wallet and car keys.
I prefer Seecamps over the competition for several reasons. It's smaller, IMO built of better stuff, and is acknowledged by most firearm experts as the best of the breed in mouseguns. My Seecamp is one of only two firearms I consider "heir-worthy" (the other is a pristine HK P7), and that means something to me. I always felt well armed with the other mouseguns, but they were Timex's in a gun world where a "Rolex" is desirable and obtainable in the form of a Seecamp pistol, and, for me, offering a pride of ownership the others lack.
But, it's all subjective... Just personal opinion. If you are happy with the mousegun of your choice, and that mousegun ISN'T a Seecamp, and you are satisfied, that's all that matters.
Just nice having options.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
For those of you concerned about the Seecamp pistol and it's appreciation/or lack thereof for certain brands of ammunition, if you care to, go to the www.seecamp.com forum and read the posts on the AMMUNITION section.
You will probably be screaming TMI, TMI before you wade through all the posts on that subject.
Personally the LWS32's of both myself and my wife are quite happy with Speer Gold Dots (jhp's).
Larry Seecamp recommends that "whatever" jhp you find that you chose to cc in your Seecamp you buy a box of whatever it is, and shoot all but 7 rounds in THAT box.. If the pistol functions perfectly with THAT box, then load the final seven rounds in your Seecamp and you are good to go.
The problem as I understand it is NOT with the Seecamp pistols, but with the variation in length in the manufactured ammo.. Tolerances in the Seecamp are tight because the pistol is so small... Tolerances in ammo varies from batch to batch, tho not by much.. But it doesn't take much variation to cause problems in the Seecamp.
I agree with the gentleman who mentioned that a 32cal, or even 380 cal. firearm is not a desirable first choice for a cc weapon. Bigger caliber, bigger rounds, and the more of them, all the better.
But here in SE Ga. there seem to be only 4 days a year it's cold enough to wear an overgarment, which would offer concealment for that "bigger, more" self defense weapon... For the other 99% of the year most of us by circumstance are limited to a very small, very concealable cc firearm..
We're talking KT, Ruger, Beretta, NAA, Seecamp mouseguns.
I've owned one P32, one Tomcat, two NAA (32cal.)Guardians, and with the exception of the Tomcat, they all did a fine job. I might one day buy a Ruger LCP, but I'm leery of 1st series anythings, so I want to wait a spell while the "instant gratification" folks Beta Test the bugs out for me.
None of those pistols were any easier to conceal than my Seecamp LWS32. I carry my LWS32 daily in a rear pocket (wallet style) holster, and it makes the trip with my anytime I pick up my wallet and car keys.
I prefer Seecamps over the competition for several reasons. It's smaller, IMO built of better stuff, and is acknowledged by most firearm experts as the best of the breed in mouseguns. My Seecamp is one of only two firearms I consider "heir-worthy" (the other is a pristine HK P7), and that means something to me. I always felt well armed with the other mouseguns, but they were Timex's in a gun world where a "Rolex" is desirable and obtainable in the form of a Seecamp pistol, and, for me, offering a pride of ownership the others lack.
But, it's all subjective... Just personal opinion. If you are happy with the mousegun of your choice, and that mousegun ISN'T a Seecamp, and you are satisfied, that's all that matters.
Just nice having options.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
My wife's, and my Seecamp 32's work well with Winchester White box (Q4255) 71 grain FMJ's. I am another penetration disciple when it comes to mouse guns.
Neither of us carry the Seecamp as a primary SD gun, but for those times when nothing else is practical, the Seecamp is always there.
Neither of us carry the Seecamp as a primary SD gun, but for those times when nothing else is practical, the Seecamp is always there.
PRM
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- Apr 14, 2008
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- 2,111
North American Arms 32
Always admired the Seecamp. About 3 years ago I bought a North American Arms Guardian in .32 ACP for $250. Which is a pretty common price (used). Mine was in like new condition. From what I have been told, they are an almost identical gun to the Seecamp with only minor differences (Not trying to start a flame war). My NAA has always functioned flawlessly with all types of ammo. Its an easy gun to carry in all situations whether as a back-up or just running to the store. Long dedicated trigger pull is good to go instead of a safety.
Always admired the Seecamp. About 3 years ago I bought a North American Arms Guardian in .32 ACP for $250. Which is a pretty common price (used). Mine was in like new condition. From what I have been told, they are an almost identical gun to the Seecamp with only minor differences (Not trying to start a flame war). My NAA has always functioned flawlessly with all types of ammo. Its an easy gun to carry in all situations whether as a back-up or just running to the store. Long dedicated trigger pull is good to go instead of a safety.
Attachments
PX15
Member
PRM:
Nothing at all wrong with the NAA Guardian. Several years ago when I found out the Seecamps were basically unobtainable (for anyone with my pay grade) I bought a first series 32cal NAA Guardian.
I had a few initial problems with feeding, but sent it back to the factory for CS and it was returned, repaired, and with a free new magazine for my trouble.
The NAA is basically a Seecamp clone with a few changes that frankly some folks think are improvements. (mag release/ease of disassembly). I did at the time, but since I have turned into a Seecamp homer I've changed my mind.
Here's a photo of the two side by side.
I was well served by my Guardian (actually at one time I had two). I would not say anything negative about Guardians other than they just aren't Seecamps...
Once you have a Seecamp you are lost...
Just personal opinion, no offense.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
Nothing at all wrong with the NAA Guardian. Several years ago when I found out the Seecamps were basically unobtainable (for anyone with my pay grade) I bought a first series 32cal NAA Guardian.
I had a few initial problems with feeding, but sent it back to the factory for CS and it was returned, repaired, and with a free new magazine for my trouble.
The NAA is basically a Seecamp clone with a few changes that frankly some folks think are improvements. (mag release/ease of disassembly). I did at the time, but since I have turned into a Seecamp homer I've changed my mind.
Here's a photo of the two side by side.
I was well served by my Guardian (actually at one time I had two). I would not say anything negative about Guardians other than they just aren't Seecamps...
Once you have a Seecamp you are lost...
Just personal opinion, no offense.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
PRM
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,111
No Offense Taken
I agree with the thread - The Seecamp is a classic in the firearms world, and would have been my first choice. I bought the Guardian on impulse, it was there at a price I could not pass up. I was just saying mine has been great; all types of ammo, never malfunctioned. It fills a need when I don't want to pack a larger gun. Kind of like with my C&B revolvers, I have some 2nd Generation Colts and a Uberti. The Colts are classics and more collectible - but both put lead down range equally well. The Uberti was about half the cost. Happy shooting
I agree with the thread - The Seecamp is a classic in the firearms world, and would have been my first choice. I bought the Guardian on impulse, it was there at a price I could not pass up. I was just saying mine has been great; all types of ammo, never malfunctioned. It fills a need when I don't want to pack a larger gun. Kind of like with my C&B revolvers, I have some 2nd Generation Colts and a Uberti. The Colts are classics and more collectible - but both put lead down range equally well. The Uberti was about half the cost. Happy shooting
MrBill120
Member
Whats the price range of a Seecamp in 380?
Also I there are a couple of member's on here who have custom serial numbers....how do you go about ordering one?
Thanks!
Also I there are a couple of member's on here who have custom serial numbers....how do you go about ordering one?
Thanks!
tackleberi
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2006
- Messages
- 182
Easiest way to buy a Seecamp is, IMO, to buy directly from the factory. You will then need to arrange for a FFL transfer at your local FFL when the gun is done, but there are still too many people reporting difficulty trying to order Seecamps through their local dealers, such as price gouging (getting charged $100 for a custom serial # when the factory only charges $35) and excessive wait times (being told there is more than a 6 month wait for the .32ACP when it is tending around 4-5 months) to forego the "order it yourself" option. As well, you KNOW the order was placed, since they will send a postcard confirming your order.
MSRP on the .380, directly from Seecamp, is $795 through September 30. $265 deposit puts you in line.
Finally, custom serial #: Has to contain up to 8 characters, with at least one number and one letter. "Zeros" and "O" do not count, "8" works well as a "B", "4" works well as a "A", and "1" works well as as "I". Costs $35. You can inquire about the availability of your desired number at the time of ordering, and will be asked to confirm the number roughly one month before delivery.
HTH.
MSRP on the .380, directly from Seecamp, is $795 through September 30. $265 deposit puts you in line.
Finally, custom serial #: Has to contain up to 8 characters, with at least one number and one letter. "Zeros" and "O" do not count, "8" works well as a "B", "4" works well as a "A", and "1" works well as as "I". Costs $35. You can inquire about the availability of your desired number at the time of ordering, and will be asked to confirm the number roughly one month before delivery.
HTH.
1 old 0311
member
Stick with a weapon that is NOT limited to 3-4 types of ammo. Who knows what the future will hold?
LCP, Guardian, or maybe a Kel Tec, can be made to shoot ANYTHING.
LCP, Guardian, or maybe a Kel Tec, can be made to shoot ANYTHING.
JERRY
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- Jun 5, 2003
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- 3,842
my wife only half assed carried a J frame when i gave her one, and only when i harped on it.....
she now carries a Seecamp .32 all the time, not in the glove box, not in her purse, but on her. thats better than any other left somewhere else.
ive owned two K.T., one in .32 and in .380, no complaints for the short time i had them, but i didnt have the confidence that they would stand up for the long haul.
if a Seecamp is "too heavy" for some folks to pocket, theyre probably only wearing a speedo swim suit, and for most thats not a pretty sight...LOL.
our Seecamps will shoot reliably any h.p. ammo weve tried so far, STHPs, Gold Dots, Hydra-Shoks, Cor-Bons.
she now carries a Seecamp .32 all the time, not in the glove box, not in her purse, but on her. thats better than any other left somewhere else.
ive owned two K.T., one in .32 and in .380, no complaints for the short time i had them, but i didnt have the confidence that they would stand up for the long haul.
if a Seecamp is "too heavy" for some folks to pocket, theyre probably only wearing a speedo swim suit, and for most thats not a pretty sight...LOL.
our Seecamps will shoot reliably any h.p. ammo weve tried so far, STHPs, Gold Dots, Hydra-Shoks, Cor-Bons.
I've had 3 different KT pocket autos. Two of the P-32's, and one P3AT. I had problems with all of them, and sold them off. I bought a Seecamp 32, and have fired about 70 rounds of Hornady w/ no failures at all.
You just have to use JHP because it is shorter, or that Winchester flat nose FMJ round. I don't think 32ACP hollow point ammo is going extinct any time soon. You just have to test whatever ammo you buy in your gun.
I like the looks of the Ruger LCP, but it is still fairly new, and I don't think it has all the bugs worked out yet. Seecamps have been around for over 20 years. I've never shot a NAA Guardian, but it seems most owners like them. I just never warmed up to them because they are larger than the Seecamp.
You just have to use JHP because it is shorter, or that Winchester flat nose FMJ round. I don't think 32ACP hollow point ammo is going extinct any time soon. You just have to test whatever ammo you buy in your gun.
I like the looks of the Ruger LCP, but it is still fairly new, and I don't think it has all the bugs worked out yet. Seecamps have been around for over 20 years. I've never shot a NAA Guardian, but it seems most owners like them. I just never warmed up to them because they are larger than the Seecamp.
Chipperman
Member
Ya know, that safety just seemed to disappear from mine one day. I haven't missed it.
HTML:
How much do you like your wife?
That would be the question I'd ask myself, if I were thinking of buying her a microscopic .32 with no sights, as a primary carry gun. As a backup, or a deep cover piece, the Seecamps are great and I have every intention of buying a .380 someday.After 43 years I like her a lot. She's is handi-cap and not very strong in her hands. Weight and re-coil will be a big problem for her. She shoots well in our .22 bulleyes league so she can handle a gun O.K. I'd rather have something that I know she can carry and shoot as opposed to carry and be afraid to shoot. Ideally, a bazooka would be the best carry weapon but I hear theyre too big. Lot's of good stuff on this site. Keep it up.
benderx4
Member
When I look at a handgun I intend to Carry, I Consider the 5 Cs:
1. Concealibility - will it print? What type of holster required?
2. Caliber - the bigger, the better
3. Capacity - the more, the better
4. Confidence - will I hit what I'm aiming at, will it go BANG when trigger squeezed?
5. Cost - not everyone can afford a Rohrbaugh R9.
Obviously, there are trade offs between the various Cs. Based on my needs, environment, budget, body frame, and skills, I carry a Seecamp LWS32. (Central Fla)
Nice long DAO trigger - no need for a safety, especially since that is another thing to think about when the sh*t hits the fan.
Had a NAA Guardian 32 before the Seecamp and it never failed me. Great gun! Just a bit chunkier than the Seecamp.
It would be nice if we all could carry 45acps with 20 round capacity that weigh 13 ozs. When the dust settles, I figure a 32acp is still better than my fist.
1. Concealibility - will it print? What type of holster required?
2. Caliber - the bigger, the better
3. Capacity - the more, the better
4. Confidence - will I hit what I'm aiming at, will it go BANG when trigger squeezed?
5. Cost - not everyone can afford a Rohrbaugh R9.
Obviously, there are trade offs between the various Cs. Based on my needs, environment, budget, body frame, and skills, I carry a Seecamp LWS32. (Central Fla)
Nice long DAO trigger - no need for a safety, especially since that is another thing to think about when the sh*t hits the fan.
Had a NAA Guardian 32 before the Seecamp and it never failed me. Great gun! Just a bit chunkier than the Seecamp.
It would be nice if we all could carry 45acps with 20 round capacity that weigh 13 ozs. When the dust settles, I figure a 32acp is still better than my fist.
I should really repeat my recommendation for a Kahr PM9, or perhaps a P9, then. The Seecamp's trigger is going to be in the vicinity of 12 pounds or so, while a Kahr is about 6 pounds. And like I said, recoil is much lighter. I used to own an NAA Guardian .380, which is substantially heavier than the Seecamp, and it was one of my least favorite guns to shoot due to the snappiness of the recoil (and I shoot .40 a lot, which most people say is snappy). A .32 in a much smaller gun would probably feel about the same. On the other hand, a Kahr CW9 I've shot kicked about like an all-steel snubby with standard pressure .38s, or maybe a little less than that. In terms of weight, the PM9 is 16 ounces with an empty magazine, and a P9 is 17 ounces, compared to the Seecamp .32 at 11.5 ounces, so not too great an increase in weight.
DAdams
Member
That's what I did with my .380. I have three boxes with 7 rounds out of each.
Remington Golden Saber 102 gr
Speer Gold Dot 90s
Winchester 85s.
If you don't want to wait a year for a .380, you can generally find them at the Seecamp Dealer listed stores when they get their allocation. I have seen them run $900 to 1200. I paid $895 for mine plus transfer. No wait.
Just a warning the Seecamp is a MFer in the snappy (painful) recoil department and brings new meaning to shot little carried alot.
It is hell on the index finger first knuckle joint and not for the feint of heart.
Again when fecal matter hits the prop you will never notice it.
My son purchased a KelTec .32 (I am still not a fan) but it has performed without fail and it is actually pleasant to shoot, so I suspect a .32 NAA or Seecamp must pale in comfort comparison to a Seecamp .380.
And yes, if you can get a PM 9 to run flawlessly for you it is probably one of the best pocket (purse) carries going. I carry mine occassionally.
All that said, my J Frame M&P 340 in 38 spl +P gets the most travel time.
13 ounces, Tritium night sights, and will if required handle .357, hence if you are worried about ammunition going out of favor stick with 9MM or .38.
Kahr is coming out with (it may be out by now) a diminutive .380.
Priced less than a Seecamp more than the Ruger, slightly larger than the Ruger but not by much.
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