CZ is a great line of firearms. I have large/long hands. The SR9c would work for you. I have the SR9 & it's one of the few pistols I've owned where I pull the trigger & go "wow, there's a hole in the center of the target!" I also own the Bersa BP9cc & it's as accurate or more so than many larger pistols I've shot. And it fits my hand well. Good luck!
shopping for a conceal carry handgun
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dogtown tom
Member
Seriously?
"draw and cock" requires more fine motor skills than simply drawing. I don't think i've ever heard or read that it's just as fast.
Sure, thats how to do it............confuse them.
dogtown, thats because when you get used to it you naturally cock the hammer during the process of drawing, and cocked before you finish the process..
anyway, i thought about buying an SR9, its a handgun that interests me a lot, but if i were to get one id want a full size.. problem i have with polymers is the way the grips feel when you get a little sweat on them, i like the options of different panels but id still be willing to consider looking at it side by side next to the p01 and see how it compares in weight.. even the p01 will feel weightless with as much as i use revolvers
anyway, i thought about buying an SR9, its a handgun that interests me a lot, but if i were to get one id want a full size.. problem i have with polymers is the way the grips feel when you get a little sweat on them, i like the options of different panels but id still be willing to consider looking at it side by side next to the p01 and see how it compares in weight.. even the p01 will feel weightless with as much as i use revolvers
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im really starting to like the P-01.. small enough to conceal, but a large enough magazine and light rail for other uses as well.. at home, id prefer a small flashlight under the barrel in case i need it for home defense, id like to flash the light first not only to blind the individual, but moreso to identify them
dogtown tom
Member
Your statement makes no sense...........of course you "naturally cock the hammer during the process of cocking"....... is there any other way?
Sorry, but the act of drawing will ALWAYS be faster than drawing and cocking.
Please name one LE agency, military or instructor who advocates cocking on the draw. I would really like to know where this nonsense comes from?
needmorecowbell
Member
There is none better than the P01 IMHO. I really liked my SR9c, but sold it because wanted the P01 more and have zero regrets. Do yourself a big favor and get one. You'll love it. FWIW, I had a Tac light already (M3 Streamlight I think, label on box said for a Glock???) and it was too big for the SR9c's rail. Fits great though on the P01. The Ruger rail seemed really short.
Your statement makes no sense...........of course you "naturally cock the hammer during the process of cocking"....... is there any other way?
Sorry, but the act of drawing will ALWAYS be faster than drawing and cocking.
Please name one LE agency, military or instructor who advocates cocking on the draw. I would really like to know where this nonsense comes from?
Israeli Army.
Tom
VetPsychWars,
The Israelis have in the past advocated Condition 3 carry, which involves racking the slide after drawing, not just cocking. That would be Condition 2, and NOBODY advocates that.
The Israelis have in the past advocated Condition 3 carry, which involves racking the slide after drawing, not just cocking. That would be Condition 2, and NOBODY advocates that.
He said "name one" and I did. Clearly if the chamber is empty, there's no reason for it to be cocked.
I personally carry my 1911 cocked and locked because it's the right thing for ME to do.
Please to not be mistaking rhetoric for position.
Tom
I personally carry my 1911 cocked and locked because it's the right thing for ME to do.
Please to not be mistaking rhetoric for position.
Tom
i see a big difference between military handguns and concealed carry.. military handguns tend to have bigger serrations, bigger levers, larger buttons.. easier to operate in different conditions, or while wearing gloves... self defense seems to be the opposite, everything is lower profile to snag less
but, cocking on the draw would be kind of pointless on a double/single action, if its possible to fire a handgun by simply pulling the trigger even with the hammer down then id most likely carry it hammer down, safety on and just drop the safety when drawing
i dont have too much experience with DAO, striker fired handguns, such as the glock.. obviously this would be carried with a safety on too, but i hear some people say thats not even necessary.. im not sure how i feel about carrying something that only requires the pull of a trigger to cock and fire without a safety present.. obviously im not going to go with glock, and not the SR9 due to other issues (yet, as id still like to eventually get an sr9), but im not opposed to still discussing them
are trigger parts interchangeable between CZ75 models?.. for example, i notice different CZs have SAO, DAO, and DA/SA trigger configurations
and obviously i have another choice to make.. caliber.. im not a person that wants to have a ton of different calibers for every gun i own.. i like to put a caliber for a role, and then attempt to purchase all future handguns in that caliber, to save on ammo costs.. so now im faced with the common 45acp/9mm/40S&W debate.. but since id like to get multiple handguns in the same caliber, its probably best i choose against the 45acp for the majority of my future handgun purchases since theres a number of handguns that either dont offer a 45acp option, or take years after the initial release before they decide to.. so down to 40S&W or 9mm, and im leaning towards the 9mm
but, cocking on the draw would be kind of pointless on a double/single action, if its possible to fire a handgun by simply pulling the trigger even with the hammer down then id most likely carry it hammer down, safety on and just drop the safety when drawing
i dont have too much experience with DAO, striker fired handguns, such as the glock.. obviously this would be carried with a safety on too, but i hear some people say thats not even necessary.. im not sure how i feel about carrying something that only requires the pull of a trigger to cock and fire without a safety present.. obviously im not going to go with glock, and not the SR9 due to other issues (yet, as id still like to eventually get an sr9), but im not opposed to still discussing them
are trigger parts interchangeable between CZ75 models?.. for example, i notice different CZs have SAO, DAO, and DA/SA trigger configurations
and obviously i have another choice to make.. caliber.. im not a person that wants to have a ton of different calibers for every gun i own.. i like to put a caliber for a role, and then attempt to purchase all future handguns in that caliber, to save on ammo costs.. so now im faced with the common 45acp/9mm/40S&W debate.. but since id like to get multiple handguns in the same caliber, its probably best i choose against the 45acp for the majority of my future handgun purchases since theres a number of handguns that either dont offer a 45acp option, or take years after the initial release before they decide to.. so down to 40S&W or 9mm, and im leaning towards the 9mm
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dogtown tom
Member
Not current doctrine and not at all what "cock on draw" is about.
No, I asked to name one who uses "cock on the draw"......The old "Israeli method" IS NOT cocking on the draw, but drawing normally and racking the slide with the off hand.
i also decock the hammer with my thumb too.. i bet people are going to have issues with that.. though id rather rely on my own thumb than a mechanical function that can fail
wow.. im looking at some photos of some CZ P-01s that have the grips exchanged for wooden grips, and with an orange/red hue wood on that black finish it brings out a very beautiful classic style look of the P-01, far removed from the excessive "tacti-cool" of many modern pistols, and i love that classic styling.. such as this http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab44/Pinoy_Photog/CZ75DwithWoodGripsWeb.jpg ..
so gorgeous classic look, bulletproof reliability, amazing ergonomics, havent heard anything negative about accuracy, as well as both concealable and has the ability for rail accessories... i could try to find something more well rounded, more perfect, but i fear id just be wasting my time
so gorgeous classic look, bulletproof reliability, amazing ergonomics, havent heard anything negative about accuracy, as well as both concealable and has the ability for rail accessories... i could try to find something more well rounded, more perfect, but i fear id just be wasting my time
You're wrong. Israelis use an empty chamber and rack the slide as they draw, not just cocking the hammer.
The only 1911 based pistol that's safe to carry with one in the chamber and not cocked & locked is the Para with the Light Double Action trigger. You've still got your grip and thumb safety, it finishes cocking and fires as you pull the very smooth trigger.
This is the one my wife had...
This is the one my wife had...
as i said with the 1911, the way id carry it is one in the chamber, hammer down, then draw the hammer after drawing and prior to shooting.. and i still really like the 1911 and could still be convinced to go with a commander size.. i love the customizability of them.. but given my budget this limits the 1911s to citadel, rock island, etc which are mostly old military configurations, but they do offer a commander size version which i can obviously upgrade certain parts as i go.. and im not opposed to constructing one as a project probably on a caspian recon frame (single stack with the light rail)
There are 2 different ways to carry in condition 2, one is cocking the gun on the way out of the holster and the second is to cock the hammer after the gun has been drawn. I believe one was military and one was a police method used last time we spoke on this that I remember. I also had a commander sized P13, "Para", which I carried that way. When you rotate between guns with no external safety to guns with one, it can be unsafe to treat them differently. I found that I could remember to cock the hammer easier than kick off the safety, "with practice", the gun takes the same amount of time to get on target weather you cock it or flip off the manual safe. I don't recommend one way or the other for anyone. I's better to carry one type of gun all of the time, and not have to worry about distractions, I only carry guns with no external safety on them now, other than the built in ones.
Glock type pistols won't shoot you in the foot, unless your finger is in the trigger, where it shouldn't be, until you are prepared to fire.
Glock type pistols won't shoot you in the foot, unless your finger is in the trigger, where it shouldn't be, until you are prepared to fire.
glocks are DAO, or atleast a variation of such i think.. meaning they cock and fire with a single pull of the trigger.. how possible is it for that trigger to snag or be accidently pulled, and the gun fired?.. with a 1911 with the hammer down you have to cock the hammer in order for it to fire with the trigger, so it seems quite safe, and the pull of that single action trigger is pretty short, smooth, and light while mechanically being a very simple design over something like a glock, or other modern DAOs
but.. what other similar size, similar style handguns could i consider?.. theres the CZ-75 compact.. beretta cougar, what else?
but.. what other similar size, similar style handguns could i consider?.. theres the CZ-75 compact.. beretta cougar, what else?
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dogtown tom
Member
The same possibility with any revolver..........and you can count the number of successful revolvers with a manual safety on one hand with fingers left over.
I'm getting the feeling that you are somewhat inexperienced with handguns. A Glock doesn't fire "accidently" nor would it "snag" on the draw anymore than any other handgun would. Keeping your finger off the trigger prevents 99.99999999999% of firearms from firing.
Do you intend to carry this 1911 for self defense or strictly as a range toy?
I ask because "hammer down" seems safer, but gives you one more opportunity to have problems. in a self defense situation speed is of the essence..........and having to thumb cock takes time you may not have.
You seem overly concerned with hammer down as being safer than cocked and locked. Your problems will occur when you attempt to cock the hammer WHILE drawing. Your grip will be compromised while you are thumb cocking, you will be performing multiple motor skills: drawing with a less than perfect grip, rotating your thumb to cock and readjusting your grip.
The Glock design is no more complicated than the 1911, and is definitely less complicated in its manual of arms.
If you're a 1911 guy, then the Glock is probably not the best fit.
Keeping it real...
Go with the S&W M&P 45c. It will be a shade higher that your limit, but you can get one for around $550.
Keeping it real...
Go with the S&W M&P 45c. It will be a shade higher that your limit, but you can get one for around $550.
i see very little difference between cocking a hammer, or dropping a safety on the draw.. its another action you have to perform either way before the handgun is able to fire, the revolvers im used to are single actions, so im quite used to, and quite comfortable with cocking a hammer on the draw much more than i am with disengaging a safety and with that safety its just another mechanical function that can fail but in many cases, still has to be relied upon..
i prefer to rely on myself and practice/train accordingly because i know my limitations, i know my abilities, the same cant be said for a mechanical device.. thats the point im making in favor of a 1911s single action trigger.. though i must say i think the whole grip safety is an unnecessary redundancy, and according to john browning, he thought so too
now, im still most likely going to go with a CZ product only because im familiar with their quality, accuracy, and reliability, and im not sure as of yet as to the quality of the 1911s in my price range.. $500 is on the low end of what 1911s cost so im not sure if the quality of these 1911s are worth it or not
i prefer to rely on myself and practice/train accordingly because i know my limitations, i know my abilities, the same cant be said for a mechanical device.. thats the point im making in favor of a 1911s single action trigger.. though i must say i think the whole grip safety is an unnecessary redundancy, and according to john browning, he thought so too
now, im still most likely going to go with a CZ product only because im familiar with their quality, accuracy, and reliability, and im not sure as of yet as to the quality of the 1911s in my price range.. $500 is on the low end of what 1911s cost so im not sure if the quality of these 1911s are worth it or not
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