Should I be mad?

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Also, if a gun shop DOES go out of business because it can't keep pace with online shops, then it DESERVES to go out of business for not offering enough value to the customer (be it a low price, good quality, etc).
And when those gun shops who can't compete with Bud's or Walmart's volume go out of business because they "deserve" to, who is gonna do your transfer, oh greedy NRA hater?


Low costs online force small gun shops to cut the fat out of their business model.
Have you seen a "fat-free" gun shop? I'm surrounded by them, which is why I can seldom go in and handle something that appeals to me, because it's not what appeals to everybody else. Shops can't afford to stock a variety of guns, only the very most popular sellers.
 
And when those gun shops who can't compete with Bud's or Walmart's volume go out of business because they "deserve" to, who is gonna do your transfer, oh greedy NRA hater?

There are already transfer FFL's popping up who exist only to do transfers. As a matter of fact, in my neck of the woods this type of thing is more common than a shop doing them. Though I've settled on one FFL at this point, over the last 5-6 years I've used 3 for online purchases, and none had a retail store.

Business is like evolution - the market will adapt to serve the needs of the customer.
 
CraigC: You're ignoring the basic economics of this situation: whether a shop goes out of business or not depends mostly on how they present value (product selection, willingness to help, low prices, etc) to customers. If they go out of business, it frees up more capital for another entrepreneur to start their own gun shop.

And since when am I an NRA hater? I just don't agree with the means they use to get their point across, no hate here.
 
You guys who like to preach about basic "economics" theory always present a very narrow and shallow point of view. If a store goes out of business because their customer service was severely lacking, the market just wasn't there, poor management, poor marketing or their prices were simply way too high, that's one thing. It's quite another when they go out of business because they simply can't compete with high volume buyers like Walmart and Bud's. When more and more buyers place all importance on the absolute lowest price, small shops can't do anything to compete because what they CAN offer the customer, has been rendered obsolete by greedy consumers. That's why Walmart puts so many locally owned businesses out of business. Greedy consumers who care about nothing but the bottom line. Not customer service, knowledgeable advice, a varied selection or all the other little things that come with a small business that specializes in their chosen field. The difference here is that you will ALWAYS need a local FFL to handle your transfer. People think you have to be rich to be greedy but this is a perfect example. Greed is why China has a huge stockpile of US dollars and I blame the consumer who doesn't bother to look past their nose.

Like a wise man once said, who also holds a masters degree in economics, "...the problem is not taking every single thing into consideration, it's the millions of people who take nothing into consideration".

Discussions like this frustrate me to no end but always make me grateful that I don't make all my decisions based on my pocketbook. Some things are more important and are worth paying for.
 
If a gun shop went out of business because of Walmart, that gun shop probably sucked.

Walmart has only the most limited selection of ammunition. The long guns they sell are all uniformly boring, bottom barrel offerings from the biggest makers, the customer service is mediocre at best, they sell no pistols whatsoever, and it's highly unlikely they'd do a transfer from Buds or another big distributor.

If a shop can't compete with the Walmart gun counter, they deserve to go out of business.
 
True, Justin.

Some people just don't think about what they are saying. Wal-Mart hardly competes with a real Gun Shop.
 
So in one breath you complain about a guy who has an FFL to do transfers, and then in the next breath talk about how you want an FFL to do transfers?

Ironic, don't you think?
 
My new best friend who opened a gunshop accross the road from me, is more than happy to do a transfer for 35 dollars. He is now my goto guy for any gun related purchase. See my buudy Ron, an ex marine sniper with 4 tours in Nam, went to this so called gunsmith down near town, "vero beach" and the guy told him that a trigger for a Glock 27 costs him $180, this was today, 4/26/2010., Ron put a set of CT's on the little gun and now the trigger pull is throwing off his shooting at longer yardage, so he wanted to go a bit lighter, Now the kid who just opened would never do that. First of all he is smarter than this old xxxx, and he knows that he will lose ten other guys if he did, "not that he would". But I paid $100 for a transfer when I moved here because I didn't know anyone up here, not even a neighboor, and it had to be done that day, my wifes son was in NY for 1 day and did me the favor. I would never go back there for anything.
But a smart guy leaves the door open even if he isn't making a dime off you, because like we found "the new kid" I sent him a dozen guys who did buy something from him, and everyone I meet who is looking for a part or a used or new gun, guess where I send them.
So it keeps people honest when they know that the average joe can look on Glock world , and see what the darn thing really costs. We all know how long it takes to change out a glock trigger. So this guy is going to charge $250-$300.00 to change out a trigger on a glock. That's why he's always empty. If a guy has been in your store and has discussed 1000 yard shooting on a few occasions, "ron dosent talk much" but he , as I , were new here and were looking for a private range with as long a distance as possible, he really does shoot 1000 yards, and so do his buds. Me no. 300 would be plenty for me, but that's not the point. The gunsmith should have picked up enough info from him asking about a long range to shoot near us, that this guy was a career military guy, and he would surelly know how much a trigger job on a glock would be within a few bucks. It's greed that the internet stopped, not business, the ability to blindlly overcharge for services to an uninformed public.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmorden
In most states you still owe the tax on online purchases. You pay it at the end of the year as a use tax.
Wha? Where? Use of what?

Use of the item. In many states ANYTHING you buy via mail order or internet that you didn't pay sales tax to another state for, you owe use tax (usually the same amount as the state sales tax) on those items at the end of the year.

45 states charge use tax in some form or another. Here is a list along with links explaining the use tax system for each one:

Alabama http://www.ador.state.al.us/salestax/index.html
Arizona http://www.azdor.gov/brochure/610.pdf
Arkansas http://www.arkansas.gov/dfa/excise_tax_v2/st_index.html
California http://www.ftb.ca.gov/current/usetax.shtml
Connecticut http://www.ct.gov/drs/cwp/view.asp
Colorado http://www.revenue.state.co.us/fyi/html/generl10.html
Florida http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/sales_tax.html
Georgia http://www.etax.dor.ga.gov
Hawaii http://www.state.hi.us/tax/brochures/use_bro.pdf
Idaho http://tax.idaho.gov/use_tax.htm
Illinios http://www.revenue.state.il.us/Businesses/TaxInformation/Sales/rot.htm
Indiana http://www.state.in.us/dor/individual/use.html
Iowa http://www.state.ia.us/tax/educate/78535.html
Kansas http://www.ksrevenue.org/perstaxtypesccu.htm
Kentucky http://revenue.ky.gov/business/salesanduse.htm
Louisiana http://www.revenue.louisiana.gov/sections/individual/conuse.aspx
Maine http://maine.gov/revenue/salesuse/homepage.html
Maryland http://individuals.marylandtaxes.com/usetax/default.asp
Massachusetts http://www.mass.gov/Ador/docs/dor/Publ/PDFS/sales_use_07.pdf
Michigan http://www.michigan.gov/treasury/…….html
Minnesota http://www.taxes.state.mn.us/…….CM1_002975.pdf
Mississippi http://www.mstc.state.ms.us/taxareas/sales/main.htm
Missouri http://dor.mo.gov/tax/business/sales/
Nebraska http://www.revenue.ne.gov/salestax.htm
Nevada http://tax.state.nv.us/documents/…..pdf
New Jersey http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/su_10.htm
New Mexico http://www.statetaxcentral.com/New_Mexico/Sales_and_Use_Taxes/
New York http://www.tax.state.ny.us/pdf/publications/sales/pub850_207.pdf
North Carolina http://www.dor.state.nc.us/taxes/sales/
North Dakota http://www.nd.gov/tax/misc/faq/salesanduse/index.html
Ohio http://tax.ohio.gov/divisions/sales_and_use/index.stm
Oklahoma http://www.tax.ok.gov/bt4.html
Pennsylvania http://www.revenue.state.pa.us/revenue/cwp/view.asp?a=13&q=250484
Rhode Island http://www.tax.ri.gov/documents/information/use_tax.pdf
South Carolina http://www.sctax.org/Tax+Information/Sales+and+Use+Tax/
South Dakota http://www.state.sd.us/drr2/businesstax/st/usetax.htm
Tennessee http://state.tn.us/revenue/tntaxes/salesanduse.htm
Texas http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/sales/faq_use.html
Utah http://www.tax.utah.gov/sales/
Vermont http://www.state.vt.us/tax/pdf.word.excel/misc/majorvttax-s&u.pdf
Virginia http://www.tax.virginia.gov/site.cfm?alias=salesusetax
Washington http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/Pubs/ExciseTax/RetailSales_UseTax/UseTax.pdf
West Virginia http://www.wva.state.wv.us/wvtax/ssutProject.aspx
Wisconsin http://www.revenue.wi.gov/html/sales.html
Wyoming http://revenue.state.wy.us/PortalVBVS/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=4&tabid=11
 
That sounds like an unenforced law to me. Billions of individual sales are made every day on the internet. I have an good accountant and attorney and neither one of them ever mentioned this. Neither did anyone I ever know. I assume they delegate a certain sum for this, as I have very little that I buy that I cannot touch.
The following is from a google search:
I’m an accountant. I don’t know about out of country purchases. But, within the U.S, the use taxes are sort of part of the sales tax laws, for those states which have a sales tax.
Every company which does business in a state is suppose to register with that state to collect and remit sales tax. Most companies do not do business in every state, but, occasionally they may sell something to a resident in a state they are not registered in. In that instance, the purchaser is required by law to pay a use tax to that state. However, the law is rarely enforced for individuals because the amount of tax is usually small. However, states will go after businesses which don’t pay use taxes. Also, you would never get anything from the IRS because there is no federal sales tax, yet. Currently only states have sales taxes
Enforcement As with any law the key is in how it is enforced. Washington State cannot go to every sales location to ensure tax is applied properly. It would be impossible. So it is up to the individual seller to keep on top of what they owe and what they need to be collecting. Failure to collect sales and use tax will lead to fines, and if the failure is "chronic" your business may even be shut down by the state. Internet sales are not exempt from sales tax, but they too are difficult to monitor and enforce. Washington has stepped up its Internet tax enforcement recently and is cracking down on sellers who have attempted to defraud the state by using this platform.



Read more: Sales & Use Tax Explained for Washington State | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6317612_sales-tax-explained-washington-state.html#ixzz1KgPpBvNq


The IRS has nothing to do with this tax. It is a state tax. If your state has “sales” tax, it also has “use” tax.
So, no it is not optional. It is just difficult to enforce and audit individuals for.
————As a general rule states have limited ability to enforce use tax collections except on vehicles, alcoholic beverages, and tobacco. Registration and titling procedures cover most vehicles, and federal law allows states to gain access to the customer logs of alcoholic beverage and tobacco retailers who are involved in interstate commerce.
 
The gun business is the only place I've ever seen where it's ok to complain about people who wave $40 at you for what amounts to two minutes worth of data entry.

I dont think that dealers (of which I am one) should ever complain about business given to them by their customers. Business is a two way street which should be conducted honorably and fairly by buyer and seller alike.

That being said your statement "two minutes worth of data entry" is a joke and shows that you are not an FFL and have no experience in this field. I use to do transfers for $20 for first time customers, and $15 for repeat customers which is very fair in my opinion. I stopped doing them, not because of time, but personal reasons. But I can tell you from experience, that "two minutes" can turn into 45 minutes real quick as your customer tells you all about some fabulous gun he used to have but sold it to his brother cousin, etc etc etc. Im not even going into all the other logistics, of making sure you are there when the signature required package arrives, getting and maintaining an ffl, maintaining annual permits in the municipality in which you arrive, having to square up on state taxes quarterly with the state, and making sure every single thing you touch is 100% legal and squared away. Should I continue? Because there is more, thats just the stuff that came to me without thinking. IF that all sounds like a blast of a good time to you, I think you should get an FFL and see how quick your "two minutes of data entry" fly by.
 
Find someone honest close by and buy from them. If anything goes wrong you will have a long term relationship and somebody standing behind you. That is my relationship with the people in a couple of my local gunshops. I rather to pay more and to help a neiboughr rather than giving the money to some fat rich online retailer, although ocasionally I buy things online that I cannot find local and even the local guy tells me places to go so I can save money that way. Sometimes he tells me go there and save 20 bucks in those dies and I say no. Screw it. The next time he cans he gives me a discount or an extra mag or something. I don't care about spending extra as I also get discounts and they help me out when I have a problem. When I put everything in a balance I know I am getting a better service and my personal satisfaction. Also once in while they do not mind doing transfers in things they cannot get me and/or get me at a reasonable price.
I never go to Walmart or Sams. They should move to china and leave America to the americans.
Find a couple of places with with a good reputation and stick to them.
Specially firearms in my life I have seen many horror stories of sells at gun shows then malfunctions and guys nowhere to be found either at the show or online.
Nothing wrong with ordering that stock from Midway or that grip from CTD but for me that is more the exception than the rule.

Think about it.
 
Right on kdave21. What's really fun is someone getting mad at you over a transfer issue and they call the FBI and make up a story about you selling guns to convicted felons and then the FBI, ATF, raid your house at 2 am.
 
My FFL guy is fair and courtious.He only charges
$20,but I give him 30.I buy from the internet for
the great prices and where I order from there are no
taxes or shipping.I come out way ahead and by me
paying my FFL guy more than he charges he and I
are both happy campers.It's hard to find a good transfer
guy.When you do?Stay on friendly terms.My opinion.B/H
 
It doesn't sound to me like either of these FFLs has done anything worth whining about. So the old one has said he would like your business. Why is that something to be bothered about?
The new one does transfers at $15, and you are annoyed because of his attitude that he's doing you a favor? HE IS. He's doing something, for you, that you cannot do for yourself, and he is doing it at a price below market value. If I could find an FFL to do my transfers for $15, I would go out of my way to let him know I appreciate the favor. So one time he missed a scheduled appointment. If you do repeat business with him, get his mobile number, and call ahead next time.
 
Marine: I agree with most of your post, but when stores like publics double the cost of meat and fish in 2 years, and "uncle sam" is not doing the same thing to folks on a fixed income, such as "Dissability" and "SS", you either go to Sams and Costco which are owned by the same companys as wallmart and target "or one of the others" or you don't eat as well anymore. I am not in a position to spend 40 dollars on 2 ribeyes that were 15, 2 years ago. There are a lot of folks who depend on these stores to be able to live a normal life. And we "fill in" at Publics, every other week, that once a month trip to Sams saves my family 3-400 dollars. So just because you are in that position, to be able to pay double at some higher priced "boutique" stores, don't knock the average american family who is struggling to make ends meet. years ago I never was in one of those discount stores, I drove a ferrari also when I was a young man, but stuff happens and things change, and you as a Marine should know that you have to adapt to conditions.
Many of these things you should blame on the idiots we elected to office, if they did their jobs, we wouldn't have this debt and a dollar that is worthless. My wife and I have to do whatever is necessary to get through the month and keep our home and vechicles and family running. I don't shoot much anymore because that turns into a hundred dollar deal with gas ammo fees etc, I used to go every week, if there was a sams for that I would go there. Now it's once every 2 months. you do what's necessary. I could go more often but that would be thoughtless of me when I have other obligations, grandkids, etc. So don't knock people who are trying to make the best out of the worse economic mess our country has seen since 1929. I know you were pissed off but when I was single I never thought about any of this stuff and didn't even know there was a Sams, and Wallmart was for poor people, my how times have changed.
 
I stopped doing them, not because of time, but personal reasons. But I can tell you from experience, that "two minutes" can turn into 45 minutes real quick as your customer tells you all about some fabulous gun he used to have but sold it to his brother cousin, etc etc etc. Im not even going into all the other logistics, of making sure you are there when the signature required package arrives, getting and maintaining an ffl, maintaining annual permits in the municipality in which you arrive, having to square up on state taxes quarterly with the state, and making sure every single thing you touch is 100% legal and squared away. Should I continue? Because there is more, thats just the stuff that came to me without thinking. IF that all sounds like a blast of a good time to you, I think you should get an FFL and see how quick your "two minutes of data entry" fly by.

A long list of business expenses and things that annoy you doesn't change the fact that when I go to my FFL to get a transfer done, it takes about two minutes to fill out the online form and submit it via the web.

Clearly it wasn't worth it to you at $15. My FFL doesn't think so, either, because they charge $35 for a transfer.
 
That sounds like an unenforced law to me. Billions of individual sales are made every day on the internet. I have an good accountant and attorney and neither one of them ever mentioned this. Neither did anyone I ever know. I assume they delegate a certain sum for this, as I have very little that I buy that I cannot touch.

Depends on the situation, and the amounts. If you're audited I know it can bite you bad - they can pull credit card statements and determine what charges were for out of state goods. Many states also have flags that can be triggered for certain large items. For example, one of my hobbies is aviation - in particular the smaller aircraft which many people build from scratch or kits. Some people I know of have purchased kit aircraft (often for $10,000 or more) to build, and have been bitten by not paying the use tax on those items.

I also know that the accounting department here at work watches our out of state purchases like a hawk. Everything that gets bought immediately at purchase gets the correct percentage automatically transferred to another account for payment of the usage tax at the end of the year.

I wouldn't assume that just because you haven't been caught yet that the state doesn't care, or that you won't get caught eventually.
 
I think it's more like they aren't concerned about the fobus holster I bought for 10 bucks on ebay, since the accountant I have is pretty prominent and I have used him for 10 years, he must automatically set aside a cettain amount , as I am sure others do", I don't buy airplanes over the internet, so I am not worried about my 10 dollars a year in tax revenue that is paid by the people I pay to do that. Since I would make several millions of dollars in trades per year, "that's trades not profits" while day trading for 12 years, full time, he is used to listing thousands of trades and commissions. When you have 10x leverage your taxes can get pretty complicated. I defer to the professionals, as I mentioned I make no large purchases online, other than what most guys here would do as far as a magazine or a pair of gips, and half those places are in my state.
I like to see what I am buying witha a substancial purchase, I assume you saw this airplane prior to buying it online, yes? Vero has a lot of those kit planes at our small airport. But I question how many people even know about this, I am sure no one over 40 does, even if the shop online.Only a professional who sells and buys large ticket items online would be aware of it , other than an accountant. Not many people are going to enter into a "tax" conversation, but in all honesty I am sure that my accountant has an algorythem he uses to figure out what this number should be.
It's similar to online gambling and other such frowned on and illegal endeavors, people will do what people will do. I don't gamble, but know several folks who do that as a source of revenue, same old thing the credit card companys aren't supposed to grant access for use, but there is always a state that allows an address from a PO box to be used.
Personally I believe in small govt. only because everything that they get involved in they screw up, look at the post office. But this is getting past the shut down point, and way off topic, I just don't like scare tactics.
 
he is NOT doing you a favor. If he thought they were a pain in the ass he shouldn't offer them. however, I do like to support local businesses when I can and you'd be surprised what benefits can come from befriending a gun dealer.
 
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