shtf guns need suggestions

[JWarren]

takhtakaal,

I suspect that you are correct. The point I was trying to impress upon him is that then only time I could see the need for supressed firearms during a SHTF similar to the one I went through would be if you were doing something that you shouldn't be-- like "raiding."

While I could see the need for a supressed hunting firearm in a VERY protracted SHTF-- such as the end of the world, I'd be looking for a suppressed rifle over a suppressed handgun.

Don't get me wrong. A supressor may be in my future-- but I recognize it as a toy more than an essential part of my planning. I primarily want one to save the last remaining bit of my hearing from years of shooting.


-- John

 

[H2O MAN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWarren
I am still trying to understand what you envision needing a suppressor for-- especially a suppressed handgun. Care to explain?

I imagine he'll be along to explain himself, but I think in SHTF he's looking to reduce his footprint, as it were.
Suppressed semiauto weapons are still pretty loud without some sort of a buffer rig on the metal to metal bits.

M4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNwecxMlvog

.22: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i_SYlgHiUs

MK14: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1289448791930127574&q=mk14+mod+0

 

[Navy joe]

I will make one point in favor of the BLR. It is a box mag. lever action in calibers you don't normally get levers in. Someone i think highly of owns one in .308. The reason is that it is an ubiquitous caliber, may be found in police or military stocks and the rifle itself is very PC. Better perception than used in a shooting over a black gun, less likely to go in the early rounds of confiscations.

That said, 7mm ??? Churn out a supressor? As someone with a life of metalwork and access to machine tools; let me say this. Sure, it is not that complicated. Just be sure the S knocked over all the government when it hit TF, otherwise you speak of churning out a felony.

Where will you go in the mountains of GA? Been there, lots of people down there. I hope you know the people where you go and have cause to be where you end up. Otherwise somebody else's SHTF gun cache will be bigger.

I suspect carrying 2 rifles, a shotgun, and a pistol may get old quick. Especially if you carry anything you actually need. I hunt sometimes with my match M-1A. The Krieger barrel is heavy, the McMillan stock solid, solid fiberglass. Damn gun weighs 12+ pounds. It gets old. I hunt overnight with a Mil-surp, a sidearm, 1 big knife, and all my stuff in a big Camel-bak. Only about 35 lbs. with both guns, it gets old. I could sustain that level for a long time. I could hump about 80-100 lbs for a day, done that. It gets old. So "want to carry these" ought to turn into "go carry these for a week as a test." If I was out for a long time and getting worn down with my aforementioned hunting rig I'd probably cache my Glock and its spare ammo somewhere for later before I cast off my Khukri. The Glock is good for one thing, that being more two-legged predators than a 6-shot detachable mag, straight pull rifle in .30 cal can dispatch. I can do all kinds of stuff with a knife. That's why I have about 4 when I am out for a long time. I suspect you wander the woods for a week and those long guns would be leaning on a tree somewhere. If I am ever so unlucky as to have to leave my abode with more than one long gun the dog is screwed. It's called a travois and the mutt is hauling his food and my guns. Walking sucks.

 

[JWarren]

Only about 35 lbs. with both guns, it gets old.

Haha... Navy Joe...

A thought occured to me last June:

Any time people prepare a "Bug Out" kit, they need to pack a backpack to the same weight and go on vactation to Disney World in Orlando during the summer.

I was the "camel" for my wife and mother during our trip to DW for THREE weeks this summer. I had a backpack with all sorts of useless items. Seriously, my feet STILL have not completely recovered. DW, Bugout Bag, and Summer is the Acid Test of what you are REALLY willing to carry around with you.

It stops seeming like "A Small World" on Day 3 of walking.

And on a VERY unrelated note, anyone who has been to EPCOT... have you noticed that the USA exhibit is perfectly between the Germany Exhibit and the France Exhibit? Makes you think....

-- John

 

[7-08WIN70]

being closer to your age than most of the people that responded i can tell you that 2 or 3 rounds from a 7mm remington magnum isnt fun at all so your first choice "sniper rifle" is way overpowered. i think the 30-06 or .308 would be better, most mom and pop stores around the country will have a box of dusty remington core-lokt's. as for the silent .22 they are suprisingly not. the colt woodsman i went out back with got square with me by assulting my ears when i refused ear protection mocking the .22lr. if you are worried about "needing quiet" for sentry dispach or whatever you ment by that i'd be looking more in the range of a m249 saws if you are worried about rambo gunfights. if you can sneek up on someone you could also just run
the .22 would be a valuable tool, agreed. the close range shotgun sholud be dead weight do not let somthing you need to engage get close. the ar15 is a wonderful choice but i think mabe an ak 47 clone may be better the 7.62x39mm has almost 2x the kinetic energy and the thing is virtually indestrucstble and the surp ammo is easy to find. the acuracy isnt as good but isn't supposed to be a longrange tack driver. a pistol of a compact design would probably be of great utility for personal protection because walking about looking like rambo armed to the teeth would draw alot of attention somthing you do not want while doing mabe risky thing such as scavenging for food and supplys. i'm thinking a snub revolver of .38 special +p fame because of the reliability of a revolver and the concealibility of a snubby. lg's couldnt hurt either.

my choices would be:
a win model 70 with a syn stock in 30-06
an ak47 clone
kimber tac. ult 2 in .45 acp
a rem nylon 66 .22lr

 

[ROMAK IV]

One word, "Saiga".

Saiga 12,
Saiga 308,
1911.

If it is truely SHTF, you aren't to worry about overpenetration and engaging in under 200 yards. Sniper grade rifles are great for sniping but not so good for SHTF, and especially not in 7mm. If perhaps you reload and fire the rifle regularly, but otherwise, save it for hunting and such. Still, if you don't want a Saiga 308 for your long range gun, a K-31 and a good supply of 7.5 Swiss. There is a scope mount available for the K-31 now. It is important, if you are going to buy any type of firearm for emergencies, to have adequate ammunition supplies. As for the Saiga 12, is is simply the best type of shotgun for the job. At $450, it isn't expensive, and with ten round magazines, it remains the shotgun with the greatest firepower.

 

[MarshallDodge]

We live out in the country so I am planning on staying put. If I do have to move my choices would be a rifle that the ammo was light. An AR15 in 223 would fit this bill. I would carry a handgun but I keep debating on whether it will be a 45 or 22 caliber.

I agree with JWarren. Fill a backpack with your goods or something like water to simulate it. Take a day hike. Up here we start at 4000 feet and go up from there. I have carried gear up the mountains and it will make a man out of you real quick. My first priority would be water and food. A gun wouldn't do much good if you are dehydrated.

You need a plan and you need to test it to make sure it will work for you.

 

[aloharover]

Some thing you can use and use well. Something that fits and points naturally.
Multiple guns with multiple calibers is a logistic nightmare.
Think simple.
What can you carry on you. Plan for a single long gun and a single handgun, maybe a pair. If you have more cool, but concentrate on your core items. Have plenty of spare parts and know how to rebuild them.
Now if spare parts to you means having 6 identicle rifles and pistols cool. But back to my "can you carry it all" point. Know what parts are the most critical to the functioning of the weapon and which ones fail the most often.

 

[aloharover]

Fill a backpack with your goods or something like water to simulate it.

Excellent!!
When my CO was getting ready for SFAS he started hiking with a 5-gal can in his ruck. He worked up to 10 miles a day with two 2-five gal cans every other day with a 25 milers on the weekend.

 

[kimberfan]

Ok heres my 2 cents. Get a M1A it can do both the jobs of the BAR and AR-15 in one rifle, For the shotgun i would get a Mossberg 930spx, For a handgun a 1911 with a .22 conversion kit and a small .22 rifle as well.

Now keep in mind thats for long term.

 

[doc2rn]

Water bottle 2qt with filtration system, .22 rifle, fishing pole, case of MREs, change of clothes, and great sleeping system will keep you going a long time.

 

[sachmo]

Well J Warren I think you hit the nail on the head. Aint gonna be engaging targets at 1K+ yards, or sneaking around with a silenced .22 MK11 doing God knows what. The advice you gave about an easy carry handgun on your person jives with what I have read about someone who went through a similar experience in, I think Argentina. He said that in day to day activities its pretty hard to walk around with a FAL slung over your shoulder but the concealed hand gun is always present

Of course the question always is - what type of a SHTF scenario are we talking about here? Is it the classic end of the world Zombie infested hell of the SCIFI, or much more likely a NOLA, Kenya. or Kosovo situation in which the Federal government collapses and the local LEO's take off or become part of the problem as in NOLA.

The fact of the matter is you are going to be on your own or part of the local community or family depending on were you live. To me a true SHTF weapon is best exemplified by the late Col Jeff Coopers scout rifle concept. A light weight accurate bolt action rifle , with a detachable box magazine, internal bi pod, and an 18 to 20 inch barrel in .308. You can defend yourself and hunt with such a weapon. However if I were living in the city and not likely to be hunting for a living it would hard to beat a good AR or AK. Really I could get along just fine with a Win 94 carbine

I think the real problem with these discussions is that we tend to gravitate towards military type weapons when many others will do. This isn't Iwo Jima so I will leave my Garands at home. In view of the fact that I live in the city my SHTF guns will be my customized Colt 1911 and either my 16 inch barreled Bushy or my Arsenal 106. Not sure what the wife would carry a Python is a little big so I think she would lean towards a Colt New Frontier in .22 mag. Its easy to conceal, packs a punch but is easy and not intimidating to shoot. If not that then a short barreled .22 MK 11 without silencer.

BTW if you are using a Knife to survive with as opposed to playing Rambo a 5 to 6 inch blade of good steel does just fine. In fact a big honkin knife just gets in the way. I have seen a lot of Elk gutted and skinned with a 3.5 inch or so folder although I prefer something a couple of inches larger.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Yes, a .22 rifle is needed.

 

[Navy joe]

Doc, can I get a nice tarp, some 550 cord and something to make fire with? Heck with the MREs, too heavy. No change of clothes needed, 4 changes of socks will do. Wear the extra layers.

Sachmo, you can skin a deer with a SAK, I carry a lockback one for just that. I carry a clip point fixed blade skinner just because I'm fond of it. I carry a Douk to shave with. I carry a USMC kit knife in case I lose the SAK. Okay, I admit I like knives. They get heavy too. Now a Khukri, heck with skinning an elk, you can build a house! Seriously, part of multiple knives is to be able to leave them somewhere if out in the woods alone and come back later, replace damaged ones, or equip other persons. Even in everyday life someone asks "Does anyone have a knife?" several times daily. Never have too many.

Now as far as carrying all these guns we've discussed, all the better if you have transportation. Maybe you have some guns and other stuff at points B, C, & D. Maybe B & C are family's homes, maybe nobody but you knows D. Maybe some of the other kit is in your everyday car. I am still working on my plan, but the ideal is in stages. You will face the situation with what you have on you. You should have a useful knife, decent clothing, maybe a gun, things to make fire. If you get to your car you ought to have enough stuff to live alone for a few days. If your car gets you home you have more stuff. If home is untenable maybe you can get in a bigger vehicle with more stuff and move to one of those other points. Where you have stuff!

I just think OP has a gun so all SHTF is looking like something to shoot. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a.......

 

[goon]

I say dig in, and remember the Alamo......

IIRC the guys at the alamo did dig in. It didn't go so well for them.



Personally, I'd say three is a good number. Whatever centerfire handgun you're comfortable with, whatever .22LR you like, and whatever centerfire rifle you like. From what I've read of FerFal's posts, a midsized handgun or a small CCW sized handgun might be more useful than anything else you can spend your money on.

I was raised with guns. Some would say I was raised on guns. This has influenced my decisons on the whole "SHTF" concept but lately I have been thinking that after you have your essential bases covered you really need to consider other things over more guns.

What kind of shape are you in? Need any dental work? Better get that taken care of now.
How many blankets you got? Got a tent or some kind of shelter? Sleeping bag? Warm clothes? Clothes that will keep you dry? Lots of dry socks and a good pair of boots? How many ways do you have to build a fire and how good at building one are you? How often do you practice it? All of those things are more likely to keep you alive than guns and a lack of them are more likely to get you dead than not having an M1A.
How much food you got? Got water? Without water you got a slow and agonizing death. Without food you have a slower and just as agonizing death. Both of those are just as important as being able to send bullets at a threat.

My "minimal" battery is one of each of the three I mentioned. Exact flavor doesn't really matter - pick what you like best.
If your BLR and your Ruger MKII are what you like best I'd say go for it. I would lose the shotgun though. They are great for HD type work and very versatile but inefficient for some jobs. It takes an ounce of lead from a 12 gauge to kill a squirrel - for the same job a .22LR uses 40 grains of lead. For the weight of two 12 gauge shotshells you could carry about 50 rounds of .22LR.
To me that is a no brainer.
Don't get me wrong; I love them. Shotguns are well known fight stoppers and given the choice I love having one around. But if I had to grab what I had and go with it, the shotgun is out. Ammo is just too heavy and range is limited. For the weight I'd rather carry a good rifle instead.
If you really could only afford one I'd suggest a 10/22 with some reliable 25 round magazines and a couple ammo cans of hot .22 ammo. In the hands of a practiced marksman a .22 can make life very miserable for an attacker out to around 150 yards (I have hit with them out about that far) and with something like a CCI minimag it will punch holes right through your average car door. With 25 rounds of that on tap you have a handy little rifle that will do a lot of jobs adequately. Ammo is still cheaper for them than anything else and way more versatile. You can still drop a deer with .22 but if you shoot a squirrel with a .308 you'll lose a lot of meat.
Some will disagree with that and that is OK.
The last thing I'll say about that is that I had a great uncle who made it through the depression by poaching deer to feed his family and others. He used a .22 LR extensively and was known as one of the best marksmen around. One summer he shot 101 deer - 99 between the eyes. He used one round per deer because ammo was precious. If you fired a round you needed to bring meat home.

As for your exact choices, I'd say if that's what you have and you're comfortable with them they'd work fine. Fill an ammo can for each of them. Maybe two for the .22.
Then go buy some rice and blankets.

 

[Cosmoline]

pistol isn't good for much, except concealment.

Or as someone put it during a REAL episode of SHTF: "Know that the pistol has no value, we practically don't use it. We need grenades, rifles, machine guns, and explosives."
Mordechai Anielewicz, April 23, 1943 WARSAW GHETTO

 

[goon]

Cosmoline - that definitely did qualify as SHTF. No doubt about it.
But I think the kind of SHTF we are more likely to see would positively require a handgun. If you still have "law" to deal with you may not be able to just go around armed with a rifle. Sure, I'd support your right to carry your AK or AR around to defend yourself and not think anything of it.
Law enforcement may not agree with that point of view (then again, some of the better ones would probably welcome the support). Still, there are times when you probably couldn't carry a rifle. But you can carry even a service sized 9mm or .45 with just a loose dark colored T-shirt.
I think handguns are so important that to consider yourself really prepared you should have two.

But I also think that comes after socks, blankets, and water.

 

[kimberfan]

if its a "run to the hills" setup your after a AR with a .22 conversion kit and a 1911 with a .22 conversion kit will get you by, but in the long term you gonna need ALOT more then that.

 

[Matt-J2]

So long as we're talking preparation beforehand, I rank 'up-to-date tetanus immunization' pretty highly.
Along those lines, is a good pair of boots. Sometimes, you can't see what you're walking through. Saw a lot of barefoot folks on the news after Katrina. A lot of them weren't doing so well because of it.


Just sayin, sometimes, the littlest things can turn out to be huge after all.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

In the unlikely event S actually hits the fan I would rely upon my AK-47, my 4" M686 and a good stiff hunting knife. Anything more would be unrealistic.

BTW, it that fan does get hit I would suggest you try and get to the nearest Military Base or Army Reserve Post and let them outfit you to lend a hand.

 

[takhtakaal]

AACD makes a good point, that some have also made, and that some refuse to acknowledge.

There's a point at which you'll no longer have the ability, for one reason or another, to depend upon wheels under your butt. You'll have to make hard and fast decisions about what to keep and what to toss, because that arsenal you've amassed ain't gonna fit in no freakin' wheelbarrow, and it ain't gonna all go over your shoulders.

Knife, pistol, rifle. It isn't an accident that most soldiers and marines aren't issued multiples, now is it?

 

[Anonymous Coward]

These are all good answers, although I think the question is rather silly.

However, it's a fun game to play. Choose a Glock over an XD because you can buy your own spare parts, get conversion barrels so you can load any odd caliber into your weapon, buy up a whole bunch of milsurp rifles so you can arm your neighbors, Pick a 357 over a 38 so you can use both calibers...all of which I have not done. Surviving tough times requires more than a bunch of weapons, unless your plan is to take what you need from the rest of us. I agree with the poster who says "Get to know your neighbors."

My two cents: My SHTF armory isn't dramatically different from my home defense setup. I'm not going to be taking shots at anybody who's not on my property. If it's impossible to dial 911, I'd want to rely on a semi-automatic rifle rather than anything else.

If I was getting ready for the end of the world, I'd stock up on tens of thousands of rounds of 22 rimfire. And maybe buy a couple of nice air rifles, as well. Most of the things you'd be shooting would be unaggressive consumables, and after the big game is gone, you'd need all the rats you could find.

> Fake edit: Save ammo, learn to trap rats.

 

[Lonestar.45]

A Glock 19 and a quality AR15.

 

[Titan6]

Everybody here has an AK-47. And the S has most certainly hit the fan.



Of course the good guys all have ARs... but they also have access to maintenance resources.

 

[H2O MAN]

The more I consider a SHTF senario the more I like my 16" AR (Colt LE6920), my AK (Type 56S-1 UF) and my Glock (G21).
My M14s are what I choose over everything else especially if I can only have one long gun