Signs of life stir in 2nd Amendment (Chicago Tribune)

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Neo-Luddite

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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...529.column?coll=chi-newsopinioncommentary-hed

Nice article in Chicago Truibune.

Signs of life stir in 2nd Amendment


Published March 18, 2007


For nearly 70 years, the 2nd Amendment has been the Jimmy Hoffa of constitutional provisions--missing, its whereabouts unknown, and presumed dead. The right to keep and bear arms, though treasured by many Americans, was a complete stranger to the Supreme Court. But recently, a federal appeals court did something no federal court had ever done before: It struck down a gun-control law as a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

The District of Columbia statute in question is one of the most stringent in the country. It bans the ownership of handguns except those registered before 1976, and it requires rifles or shotguns to be not only registered but kept unloaded and equipped with a trigger lock. Such tight restrictions, the appeals court said, can't be reconciled with the Bill of Rights.

The decision does not prove that the 2nd Amendment is alive and well. But it does mean that, finally, we are likely to get an answer from the Supreme Court on a question that has generated endless debate: Is the 2nd Amendment a meaningless anachronism, or a live guarantee? The court will be confronting the issue at a time when legal scholarship is increasingly inclined to say there is indeed a right to keep and bear arms.

The full text of the provision is: "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." In its last significant 2nd Amendment case, in 1939, the court didn't exactly say there was no individual right. Instead, it said the firearm at issue, a sawed-off shotgun, would not be of use to someone serving in a militia. The question of an individual right was left unresolved.

The amendment is a puzzle because of those two separate clauses, one about militias and one about gun rights. Gun-control supporters generally read the first to nullify the second, while gun-control opponents do just the opposite. And trying to determine what the framers meant is hard because they barely discussed the right and what it might entail.

Second Amendment skeptics think any right is a collective one related to militias that no longer exist. But just because the colonial Minutemen have vanished doesn't mean they took the rest of the 2nd Amendment with them. It's hard to know exactly what the text means by a right to keep and bear arms, but it must mean something.

Even some liberal constitutional experts now agree that gun ownership enjoys constitutional protection. The most notable is Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe, who once subscribed to the collective-rights theory. The amendment, he writes, recognizes "a right [admittedly of uncertain scope] on the part of individuals to possess and use firearms in defense of themselves and their homes." The appeals court agreed, striking down Washington's prohibition of handguns in the home as well as the regulations on other guns.

It would be a stunning turnabout if the Supreme Court adopts that view. It would remove some of the most extreme laws from the books--such as the near-total ban on handguns in Chicago and some suburban communities. Gun rights would feel sweet vindication.

But there is consolation for the other side as well. The appeals court made clear that a host of other limits on firearms possession are constitutionally permissible. States, it said, could forbid the carrying of concealed handguns, require registration of firearms and mandate training for gun owners.

So if this decision is upheld, it will not change our treatment of guns very much. Complete bans would be off-limits, but they are already rarer than white buffaloes. Most other gun-control laws would remain on the books, and anti-gun groups would be free to press for additional ones.

The only obstacle would be the one that has stymied them in the past: insufficient public support. It wasn't the constitutional right to keep and bear arms that induced Congress to let the federal ban on "assault weapons" expire, or persuaded 40 states to allow the carrying of concealed handguns. Those choices were the product of sentiment among citizens and legislators who see most restrictions on firearms as futile at best and dangerous at worst.

The bad news for gun-control advocates is that the Supreme Court may adopt an expansive view of the 2nd Amendment. The worse news is that's the least of their troubles.

----------

Steve Chapman is a member of the Tribune's editorial board. E-mail: [email protected]





Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune
 
And trying to determine what the framers meant is hard because they barely discussed the right and what it might entail.


Really? The writer prolly learned that at Illannoy Publik Skool
 
For an item published in the MSM for a mass audience, that one is unusually low on the error count, reasonably balanced, and has a high signal to noise ratio.
 
The amendment is a puzzle because of those two separate clauses, one about militias and one about gun rights. Gun-control supporters generally read the first to nullify the second, while gun-control opponents do just the opposite. And trying to determine what the framers meant is hard because they barely discussed the right and what it might entail.

*SIGH*
I guess no one comprehends English anymore ... or bothers to find out what thefounders said about bearing arms -- which they actually DID speak of....
:fire:
 
That was actually quite nice to read, I do believe however that the framers intended the SCOTUS to READ the FEDERALIST PAPERS AND THE ANTI-FEDERALIST papers considering that in these their is a clearer description. But overall my blood pressure did not rise from reading this. Thanks.
 
Not only was it nice to read--but it was in the Tribune as well. Those of us with longer memories know that has not always been their editorial stance.

To put it mildly, that has not been their historical take.
 
That is a surprisingly fair article for the Chicago Tribune. I found the last statement quite interesting..

The bad news for gun-control advocates is that the Supreme Court may adopt an expansive view of the 2nd Amendment. The worse news is that's the least of their troubles.

Everybody wants to be on the "winning" side, maybe we'll see more jumping ship as the tide starts to turn against gun control.
 
When it mentions that states may not allow people to carry concealed weapons, I'm assuming it means that if it did so, open-carry would be allowed?

The 2A doesn't talk about the right to just own arms, it talks about the right to bear them. So how is that statement to be interpreted?
 
It doesn't have to be interpreted any further then what the amendment says:

1) the right of the people to keep AND BEAR arms shall not be infringed. Period.

2) the constitution is the supreme law of the land, any state law/constitution not withstanding.

Why this is seen as "hard" to figure out is beyond me.
 
Why this is seen as "hard" to figure out is beyond me.


It's not hard to figure out, they know exactly what it means.

They just don't like it and that little bit of grammar argument is the best they can come up with.
 
If its ok to register guns and their owners, then why not register and license, free speech and religion as well???

I think the Tribune should go and register with the department of Speech, and get a permit for each of their reporters before they can write an article.:banghead:
 
Regarding difficulty of the two phrases:

The article states; "The amendment is a puzzle because of those two separate clauses, one about militias and one about gun rights. Gun-control supporters generally read the first to nullify the second, while gun-control opponents do just the opposite."

There is no difficulty to anyone who comprehends the English language, and in particular English usage of the time.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state," is what's known as a preparatory (read preliminary) clause. It is not the defining or controlling phrase of the paragraph.

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." is the controlling or operative clause.

Taken in totality, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." As agreed to in Congresional Conference and proposed by Congress to the states September 25, 1789 as the Fourth Article of Amendment. (As we know, the first two were not ratified and were dropped.)

Even without all the Federalist/Anti-Federalist confirming writings of the period, a competent English grammarian has no problem with this paragraph.

Only a contrary-minded analyst with his/her own agenda could pretend to not fully comprehend the original intent.

Add to this the plethora of supporting writings of the time, by both the framers and their critical contemporaries, and there can be no reasonable doubt of the meaning.

Dismount soapbox;
ElZorro
 
Chapman

has written several pro-gun op-eds in the past. Rather than nit-pick his work, given the publication it appeared in, you should be thanking him for getting this before the Chicago public.

There are a handful of pro-gun op-ed columnists around the country that regularly post pro-gun material. They need positive reinforcement. They live in a mighty cold world. A little encouragement goes along way to their publishing that next pro-gun op-ed.
 
Yeah, drop the nit-picking please. That's a good, pro-gun, pro-RKBA article, written in a way that will be readable by Chicagoans. The gun rights movement is its own worst enemy.
 
Yeah, dont get your panties in a bunch guys. This paper is aimed at a chicago readership.

The supreme court has read the federalist papers. I'm not worried about them making a mistake out of ignorance, though sometimes I wonder about the living constitution guys.
 
I suspect that the author of this article had to be rather circumspect in how he phrased things. If he gets a little too exuberant in his language the editors may simply block its publication. Censorship is alive and well and it flourishes at the offices of newspapers. Editors keep a tight rein on what their reporters are allowed to see in print. It should match the beliefs of the senior editorial staff or at least be neutral. Articles that contradict the
official position of management are usually round filed. Even letters to the editor that are not "suitable" frequently never see newsprint due to "lack of
space". Freedom of the press means that the owner of the press can print whatever he likes, and refuse to print that which he does not like.
 
Our local paper openly proclaimed that it would no longer accept “letters to the editor” that were critical of the city government. I have no doubt that there any number of other subjects that are censured as well.
 
Unfortunately, the journalist did not get the Miller case right. He said, "Instead, it said the firearm at issue, a sawed-off shotgun, would not be of use to someone serving in a militia."

To paraphrase Miller, the Court said there was no evidence that a sawed off shotgun was of use the Militia.

From a legal perspective, the distinction is significant. The Supreme Court is a Court of Appeals. That is it determines issues of law only (in general). Whether a sawed off shotgun is suitable for the Militia is a question of fact that would have to be determined at the trial court level as evidenced by the fact that the Court remanded the case. In Miller, no evidence of sawed off shotgun suitability was developed at the trial level.
 
RDG, thanks for the correction.

I should have said, "he got the essence of the Miller case more accurately than any journalist I've read."
 
And trying to determine what the framers meant is hard because they barely discussed the right and what it might entail.

"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." — John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787-88

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large, is that they be properly armed." Alexander HamiltonThe Federalist Papers , 184-8

"...if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist." — Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers No. 29

"The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." - James Madison, The Federalist No. 46

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person." — James Madison's version of what would later be the Second Amendment

"(The Constitution should be) never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless when necessary for the defence of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of their grievances: or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures." — Samuel Adams, U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788; as reported in "Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer", August 20, 1789

"A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves and include all men capable of bearing arms. To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." — Richard Henry Lee, Senator, First Congress, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer 53 (1788)

"Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, June 1, 1788
 
For the Tribune that was a pretty fair article. I think even though seem to slightly lean in our favor. Registration, while we all hate doesnt infringe on our rights per se, leave it as a states right issue, but bans being killed would be music to our ears!

HELLO imported MP40 :D
 
Well stated, El Zoro.

Skibane, isn't it odd that all the so called best, brightest and highly educated folks who are anti's don't take the time to actually read the plethora of historicaly factual comments made by the people who actually drafted the Constitution and BoR?
Thanks for your research at that which you posted. Everyone here ought to get a couple of pages of those comments printed up and carry them around. When the subject of draconian gun control comes up, just hand the copies to the bloviator and politely say; "Read these before you further comment."
 
isn't it odd that all the so called best, brightest and highly educated folks who are anti's don't take the time to actually read the plethora

Don't kid yoruself. Our enemies on the anti side know these documents all too well. It's that they know they can manipulate the sheeple into believing anything.

These folks on the anti side simply believe they know better than the founding fathers did. It is that arrogance that will be their downfall I hope. It isn't lack of knowledge.
 
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