Sistema mag problem detail strip. Still Confused.

[Audie]

As an update, my sistema is having binding slide problems with a few of my colt mags that work fine in my other acps.

I thought for a while it was the disconnector hanging up on the mag in the well...I did a detail strip and this is not the case. The disconnector is fine. It has a rounded edge and shows no wear in the area that I thought it might be binding with the mag.

With just the frame (fully stripped), the slide, and the mag catch installed, the newer colt mags are still binding the slide and have to be pryed out through the mag well with the grips off. Some of my mags are not doing this.

My conclusion is that my sistema will not function with some mags. I am a bit confused by this. Is my frame out of spec? Do I need to use only period mags...i.e., 1953?

 

[dfariswheel]

Some things to check:

With the slide OFF does the mag stick?
If so, look for crushed/compressed frame sides, or grip screw bushings that are too long and are intruding into the mag well.

Is the magazine follower slipping ABOVE the slide stop and sticking?
This is often the case in a magazine that has to be pried out, and is a symptom of slide locks out of spec, or slide lock-magazine incompatibility issues.

In this condition, the left side "finger" of the mag follower that pushes the slide stop up to hold the slide open, is slipping ABOVE the slide stop activation lug.

To check, remove the slide, install the slide stop then try the magazine.

Still sticking? Remove EVERYTHING, and start with just the absolutely bare frame, no slide, no mag catch, no slide stop, no grips, NOTHING.

Check the mag for sticking in the bare frame.
Install the bare slide on the frame, no slide stop, and check.
Start installing one part at a time until you start to have problems.

 

[Audie]

No all checks out fine. Just with bare frame and slide, the colt mags are binding it. My McCormick does a little but not bad. the mag that came with the sistema has a very different profile to the lips on the mag, and doesn't bind the slide at all.

I assumed that all colt mags are the same. Were they different in the ww2 era?

If the problem is with the gun it has to be the frame. there is nothing else. the newer colts fit in fine, they don't hang up anywhere, they just bind the slide after it is pulled back about 1/4 inch. there is nothing in the frame now, it is fully stripped.

perhaps I will just have to search out mags that work. Interested if anyone else with sistemas have found this problem.

 

[Jim K]

Well, you answered your own question.

"the mag that came with the sistema has a very different profile to the lips on the mag, and doesn't bind the slide at all."

I am surprised that Colt magazines won't work. Are you sure they are Colt or just marked Colt. A lot of junk magazines are so marked.

But, many later magazines, including Colt, do have altered feed lips to (supposedly) function better with newer, shorter, different profile ammunition. The Sistema was designed for use with the old magazines intended for ball ammo. If you want to use the new magazines and they are otherwise OK, determine where they are binding. Then get out the file and work on the magazine as necessary.

Otherwise, go to a gun show and find some good WWII vintage magazines or real Colt magazines of the old feed lip profile. If you don't know what you are looking for, learn; don't buy magazines described as "surplus" or "GI" unless you know what you are doing as a lot of them are junk.

Jim

 

[Audie]

That was the problem all along. Just finished my first detailed frame strip...took me 3 hours...but then I did it a second time in 10 minutes.

Turned out the first time I had the sear in the half cock notch and couln't drop in the thumb safety....duh, once I stopped to think about it,I repositioned the sear in the full cock notch and it fell in.

It needed learning anyway!

It is the newer mags that are the problem for sure...everything else on the gun checks out.

thanks for the help, i will find some "new" old mags.

 

[Onmilo]

I have always believed that 1927 Systema Argentine guns were individually fitted with their magazines.
I have seen one new in the original shipping box Systema and it came with four numbered magazines.
I have worked on several of these guns and they all require fine fitting of magazines to ensure proper functioning.
I still have the receiver of one pistol which the owner attempted to open up the magazine well by inserting a steel bar and whacking it with a ball peen hammer.
The receiver was torqued to the point of unusable and was replaced with a new Auto Ordinance receiver.
That gun is still being used as far as I know and any and all magazines work fine in its new receiver now.

 

[Audie]

Onmilo...thanks for that reply!!! I have been going batty about this ever since I got the pistol 3 weeks ago...

I am glad I stripped it all the way down, it was pretty dirty inside. It is a beautiful sistema pistol....but it does not like modern mags...it binds with the colts so that you have to pry them out through the sides of the mag well with the grips off and a punch through the mag holes...thank goodness for hole in the mags!!!) I only did that once...by the way...by necessity and it did not hurt the gun.

The mag that matches the gun is beat up...that is the problem. Any suggestions will be of great help here...should I look for ww2 era mags????

thanks again, I was sure my new sistema was a paperweight for a while...now I know for sure it is the mags, everything in the pistol looks new and in very good shape.

 

[ulflyer]

Audi: Just so we can all learn something new, can you post a pic of the old mag and the colt mag/s? If the lips on your old one are like the GI mags I can provide you with a couple of good used ones at nominal cost. No use my sending them unless it looks like they will work. They work well in my Colts, and Norinco's. Email me you if like. address is in my profile.

I'm not sure but many years ago I had a couple Systema's..back when they were cheap....and it seems that some mags were stiff going in and coming out. Never had to pry them out tho.

 

[1911Tuner]

Tight Mags

Audie...it almost sounds like the grip frame has been crushed. Sistemas were manufactured to spec, and any magazine that'll work in a USGI pistol whould work in an Argentine Colt. I've seen several of the guns, and never had one to give the problems that you've had with any magazine made to spec.

 

[Onmilo]

I'm a thinking that everybody is on to something when they suggest using USGI magazines.

Don't ask me why but the ones marked S for Scovill Manufacturing seem to work fine in the majority of 1911 pistols.

Some of the late issue, sealed in foil pouch, USGI magazines were just as crappy as those $5.00 gun show magazines too.

I have handled and worked on plenty of genuine 1911A1 government issue pistols that were balky at releasing magazines.
Those, Ruger Government MKll pistols, M16A1s and just before I got out, A2s and Beretta M9s, M14s and M-60 Machineguns, and several models of shotguns.
M249s had not been Class A standardized yet.
Went through the familiarization class but never had the pleasure of working on one for real.

 

[Three Man]

Check your trigger bow.
Could have been damaged durring the refinish process.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Onmilo,

Sistema magazines were not fitted to the guns. They were numbered only for inventory control, not for functioning purposes.

ANY WWII GI magazine (watch for fakes) and ANY Colt Series 70 and before magazine should work perfectly. If it doesn't, then the gun may be at fault.

Jim

 

[Audie]

The mag that works looks like this one. the newer made mags slide in fine, they just bind the slide when you pull it back. I had to pry it out when it bound the slide after pulling it a 1/4 inch too hard. without the slide on the pistol or the slide not pulled back, they go in and out of frame with no problem.

I polished any burrs off the disconnector rail with 1500 grit auto paper and oil, and will only use these mags...I am betting all ww2 era mags will work. the mags that hung up were newer colt factory mags.

I would appreciate any help finding some era mags that will work. If you have some with this low lip profile, let me know, I will email you.

Nothing I can detect is wrong with the gun.

btw, a freind is sending me an old sistema mag, he says it has the low lip profile and is even filed down a bit at that...this is obviously not the only sistema to do this...anyone out there have a sistema that works with new colt mags....btw, my McCormick shooting star works but I can feel a little grinding as I pull the slide back...won't use it either, although i could file it and make it work.

 

[megatronrules]

Try looking at your slide stop and inspect it for any burrs,also if its only this one mag doing it may just be the follower jumping the feed lips and getting caught on the slide stop?

 

[Audie]

No it is all my newer mags to some degree...I found no burrs on the slide stop. It is interesting you say this though, as I notice the Mccormick follower sits much more level with the frame than the factory new colts. but even with the mc cormick, I can feel some resistance as I pull slide back.

Feels sandy.

the low lip profile mag works fine, slide is smooth as with no mag in place. wouldn't the slide stop be an all or nothing bind?

btw, the bind happens within the first 1/4 inch of slide travel. could you elaborate on how youthink the stop might be an issue....keep in mind I know very little about acp's...but I am learning a lot fairly quickly with all the help.

 

[Onmilo]

Hi Jim.
I'm still going to hold to my opinion that the Argentines fitted the magazines.
I have tried Argentine numbered mags in different number Argentine pistols and they bind.
I don't think they were too awful good at tube forming and welding back when these guns were produced.

There are indeed some wonderful reasons for living in this, the modern world!