Six Things You Should Know Before Carrying a Gun

[Apachedriver]

Why bother to justify anything? To anyone? Do what you feel you need to do, and use the advice of others as a prompt to think for yourself.

Exactly my thought.

If I read or hear about any of you on the news, then I'll know you were wrong.

As long as you're alive, you'll know you were right.

You should draw and share information with others. But in the end your plan of action is your own. Choose wisely.

 

[RustyShackelford]

A important point....

A good point worth repeating....
Is that you(the armed professional or CCW holder) can do everything right & still be killed.
In the late 1990s, a armed maniac stormed into the US Capital building going past the security check points. He shot & killed two highly trained federal law enforcement officers(both combat veterans of SE Asia, at different times). The one uniformed US Capital Police officer was shot by the metal detectors.
A plain-clothes SA(Special Agent) who ran into the hall was shot as he exchanged gunfire with the unstable subject.
In the Atlanta GA court house escape & rampage of a violent felon(mid 2000s), a highly trained US Dept of Homeland Security/ICE special agent was murdered as he worked on his pick-up. Was he trained & able to deal with a violent fugitive? Yes. But he was over-powered & killed.

Rusty

 

[GEM]

On that excellent note - many OC folks claim their situational awareness is the equal of an Aegis cruiser. They could detect and if forced successfully retain the gun.

In San Antonio, a SWAT officer saw a burglar. They wrestled - the burglar got his gun and shot him dead.

Of course, the civilian is "better" trained than the SWAT officer

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

Things happen. One incident, or even a small handful, do not change the fact that you should train with your firearm if you intend to carry it. Anecdotal accounts of different scenarios are something to keep in mind, but by no means will they individually alter my mindset.

 

[green5594]

On that excellent note - many OC folks claim their situational awareness is the equal of an Aegis cruiser. They could detect and if forced successfully retain the gun.



In San Antonio, a SWAT officer saw a burglar. They wrestled - the burglar got his gun and shot him dead.



Of course, the civilian is "better" trained than the SWAT officer

The OC guys who claim AEGIS cruiser awareness often just don't know what they don't know.

 

[Mainsail]

On that excellent note - many OC folks claim their situational awareness is the equal of an Aegis cruiser. They could detect and if forced successfully retain the gun.

In San Antonio, a SWAT officer saw a burglar. They wrestled - the burglar got his gun and shot him dead.

Of course, the civilian is "better" trained than the SWAT officer

I've been OCing for ten years and haven't grappled with anyone- most cops can't go ten days. So I'll see your inane and raise you two more.

Of course a concealed gun can't possibly get taken while the CCer is taking a subject into custody.

 

[green5594]

Different mission requirements (civilian vs cop) don't mean the same tactical principles don't apply.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Mainsail: I've been OCing for ten years and haven't grappled with anyone-

Good.

It is also evident that you have not been shot in the back, either.

I have been carrying concealed for almost six years, and I have not been accosted by anyone.

I was not victimized in the out of doors in the sixty four preceding years, either.

...most cops can't go ten days.

Do you have a basis for that assertion?

Of course a concealed gun can't possibly get taken while the CCer is taking a subject into custody.

Why would a "CCer" take a subject into custody?

 

[green5594]

Of course a concealed gun can't possibly get taken while the CCer is taking a subject into custody.

I don't get it.

 

[strambo]

mainsail
Somehow, little old ladies with no "training" whatsoever prevail against home invaders. (Of course, I suppose you'll demand I prove that with unquestionable absolute proof)

Once in a while they do. Far more often they don't and are called crime victims.

The funny irony to me is people pointing out the diet remark when the biggest deadly threat to those posting on this thread is heart disease!

The odds of getting in a violent confrontation are slim, slimmer still with some basic awareness and avoidance skills. So, is it worth the time and effort to get training and prepare when the odds are so low? OTOH, the potential severity if it does happen is extreme...

I choose to train and prepare and have done so well above average. However, it is nowhere near the 90% comment or whatever extreme straw-man arguments are thrown out there against training.

I even convinced my wife to agree to attend a local 2 day defensive pistol course this fall, tuition is $365 plus 1 night hotel, $40 gas and 600rds ammo. Not unreasonable at all for high quality professional training, about $700 total. 1x per year would be 1 weekend a year and $58/month. Every other year would be 1 day/year and $29/mo. But just attending 1 2 day course vs none then practicing at home, mostly free dry-fire would be a massive preparedness increase over no professional training.

 

[green5594]

Once in a while they do. Far more often they don't and are called crime victims.

The funny irony to me is people pointing out the diet remark when the biggest deadly threat to those posting on this thread is heart disease!

The odds of getting in a violent confrontation are slim, slimmer still with some basic awareness and avoidance skills. So, is it worth the time and effort to get training and prepare when the odds are so low? OTOH, the potential severity if it does happen is extreme...

I choose to train and prepare and have done so well above average. However, it is nowhere near the 90% comment or whatever extreme straw-man arguments are thrown out there against training.

I even convinced my wife to agree to attend a local 2 day defensive pistol course this fall, tuition is $365 plus 1 night hotel, $40 gas and 600rds ammo. Not unreasonable at all for high quality professional training, about $700 total. 1x per year would be 1 weekend a year and $58/month. Every other year would be 1 day/year and $29/mo. But just attending 1 2 day course vs none then practicing at home, mostly free dry-fire would be a massive preparedness increase over no professional training.

Diet is a good chunk of the battle...

Ditch the pasta, corn syrup, and cigarettes and you are on your way to a better life.

 

[Sam1911]

Diet is a good chunk of the battle...

Ditch the pasta, corn syrup, and cigarettes and you are on your way to a better life.

And buckle up, and get your smoke detectors checked once a year, and get a physical if you're over 40, and wear a helmet if you ride, and don't text and drive, and wear a life preserver when on the water, and........

We're a guns and shooting site. And this is a gun-carrying topic. All that others stuff, and lots more is pretty much pithy wisdom that may be great ideas but are totally off topic.

 

[Mainsail]

On that excellent note - many OC folks claim their situational awareness is the equal of an Aegis cruiser. They could detect and if forced successfully retain the gun.

In San Antonio, a SWAT officer saw a burglar. They wrestled - the burglar got his gun and shot him dead.

Why would a "CCer" take a subject into custody?

I don't get it.

GEM fabricated a nexus between OC and a SWAT officer arresting a burglar- such silliness should not go unchallenged. A SWAT officer taking a burglar into custody is not directly comparable to someone who open carries, or conceal carries for that matter. After all, someone who carries concealed can get just as shot if they decide to grapple with someone.

What is it about Texans and open carry? Look, if you don’t like OC, man up and say you just flat-out don’t like it; I can respect that. But scraping the bottom of the stupid barrel for ridiculous reasons OC is evil is pretty silly.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Mainsail: GEM fabricated a nexus between OC and a SWAT officer arresting a burglar- such silliness should not go unchallenged.

GEM related an incident. He did not "fabricate" anything. Just what is silly about that?

A SWAT officer taking a burglar into custody is not directly comparable to someone who open carries, or conceal carries for that matter. After all, someone who carries concealed can get just as shot if they decide to grapple with someone.

Tactically, a SWAT officer who grapples with someone for any reason faces the same risks as a civilian who open carries and who is grabbed by a bad guy, and he needs not be the person who decided to grapple.

What is it about Texans and open carry? Look, if you don’t like OC, man up and say you just flat-out don’t like it; I can respect that.

Let's be carful about generalizing. Yes, GEM is from Texas. So are many other people. And it looks like they are far from doing anything to permit open carry this year.

But scraping the bottom of the stupid barrel for ridiculous reasons OC is evil is pretty silly.

"Evil" is your word. I think GEM, and many others, would choose "unwise, in many situations."

 

[green5594]

Your choices are your own.

 

[GEM]

Just shaking my evil old head. Sometimes you just can't talk to the irrational.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

Just shaking my evil old head. Sometimes you just can't talk to the irrational.

Some people will have opinions you don't agree with.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

GEM related an incident. He did not "fabricate" anything. Just what is silly about that?

Tactically, a SWAT officer who grapples with someone for any reason faces the same risks as a civilian who open carries and who is grabbed by a bad guy, and he needs not be the person who decided to grapple.

Let's be carful about generalizing. Yes, GEM is from Texas. So are many other people. And it looks like they are far from doing anything to permit open carry this year.

"Evil" is your word. I think GEM, and many others, would choose "unwise, in many situations."

I think what he meant is that an officer pursuing a criminal with an unholstered firearm and an OC citizen purchasing milk at the grocery store don't exactly draw a parallel for comparison, and if so, he's correct.

 

[GEM]

Well, then - my point was that some OC types have stated that their situational awareness and retention skills are so developed, that losing the gun is not possible for these stalwarts.

I followed with that trained officers (not as good of course as the Chipolte 2) have guns snatched and have been killed with them. I gave one example of a well trained officer who lost such a struggle. We also see open carrying police who have been taking by surprise and killed.

The implication is that if one was targeted by a population who saw the gun and wanted it -it is foolish to proclaim your superhero abilities to retain the gun from a targeted attack.

Now, such an attack probably won't occur in Chipolte's, or Target, or Starbucks.

But I've done enough close FOF that I don't want to give anyone ideas. How much FOF have the Chipolte 2 done?

Look at the picture of a bunch of old toots leaning their weapons against the back of a restaurant booth. They do it in a soccer mom environment. Can one say that a kid or nut or criminal could not pick up the gun and be out the door before Gramps gets up.

If you are a tough guy buying Organic Milk at Whole Foods - no - someone will not probably try to wrestle with you for your gun. But in that case, you are just posturing.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

Well, then - my point was that some OC types have stated that their situational awareness and retention skills are so developed, that losing the gun is not possible for these stalwarts.

I followed with that trained officers (not as good of course as the Chipolte 2) have guns snatched and have been killed with them. I gave one example of a well trained officer who lost such a struggle. We also see open carrying police who have been taking by surprise and killed.

The implication is that if one was targeted by a population who saw the gun and wanted it -it is foolish to proclaim your superhero abilities to retain the gun from a targeted attack.

Now, such an attack probably won't occur in Chipolte's, or Target, or Starbucks.

But I've done enough close FOF that I don't want to give anyone ideas. How much FOF have the Chipolte 2 done?

Look at the picture of a bunch of old toots leaning their weapons against the back of a restaurant booth. They do it in a soccer mom environment. Can one say that a kid or nut or criminal could not pick up the gun and be out the door before Gramps gets up.

If you are a tough guy buying Organic Milk at Whole Foods - no - someone will not probably try to wrestle with you for your gun. But in that case, you are just posturing.

Your comparison was apples to oranges, as I pointed out already. I've carried firearms around people who I knew for a fact wanted to kill me, and I wouldn't compare that to anything else. The notion that open carry leaves you any more susceptible to robbery is ridiculous at best.

I would never speculate that something is impossible, but I'm not going to be shaking with fever at night about the guy beside me at the gas station possibly wanting to steal my firearm, having the guts to try it, and then succeeding.

I no longer live in an open carry state, so I carry concealed only. I honestly probably would still carry concealed, for personal reasons that have nothing to do with my concern for someone taking my firearm.

Posturing? For carrying a firearm? Be realistic. Not everyone that carries openly is like those guys in Texas. Lastly, who drinks organic milk, or shops at Whole Foods?


ETA:

I think you're correct though, when you say "some OC types". Treat them as we treat the Chipotle guys, and all will be well.

 

[green5594]

Complacency leads to carelessness.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by SnowBlaZeR2: The notion that open carry leaves you any more susceptible to robbery is ridiculous at best.

Come on, now.

An open carrier wears a very desirable item in plain view. Right?

In spite of claims of constant situational awareness, it is known that no one can maintain constant 360 degree vigilance. Right?

While the open carrier may visualize an attack from one VCA who chooses to grapple, a blade or a bludgeon from an unseen attacker would be devastating. Right?

And in a crowded environment in which dozens of people mill in and out of Tueller distance, no firearm would be effective, and a visible one would serve as an attraction. Right?

What is there about those things that does not make the open carrier more susceptible to robbery?

Now, in one of those rare places in which open carry is the norm, such as Elmer Keith's home town on the old days. one would expect high degree of deterrence. But such places are very few and far between.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

OK, this has gone on long enough...I've just got to post my OWN "Six Things You Should Know Before Carrying A Gun" list:

1. No pointy-pointy at anything not want pokey-pokey holes in.
2. Handle gun like it loady-loady.
3. Big gun harder to carry-carry.
4. Cleany-cleany gun once in a while.
5. Seeky-Seeky improvement and experience.
6. No showy-showy if carry-carry.

There. I've now joined the swelling ranks of people providing numbered lists of things people have got to know.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

Come on, now.

An open carrier wears a very desirable item in plain view. Right?

Sure, as do many others not wearing firearms. The difference is that a nice watch won't kill you if you fail to get it away from the owner. Right?

For every unrelated circumstance brought to attention, there are thousands of open carriers that do so daily, without issue. Right?

We should probably stick to things that actually happen, instead of supposing what might happen, yet strangely doesn't. Right?

 

[strambo]

OK, this has gone on long enough...I've just got to post my OWN "Six Things You Should Know Before Carrying A Gun" list:

1. No pointy-pointy at anything not want pokey-pokey holes in.
2. Handle gun like it loady-loady.
3. Big gun harder to carry-carry.
4. Cleany-cleany gun once in a while.
5. Seeky-Seeky improvement and experience.
6. No showy-showy if carry-carry.

There. I've now joined the swelling ranks of people providing numbered lists of things people have got to know.

I'm just a dumb 'ol grunt and even I understand this list! I likey-likey.