Smith & Wesson Customer Service

[HiPlainsDrifter]

Smith & Wesson customer service has been a nightmare for me.

I sent my Thompson Center pistol scope to Smith and Wesson as instructed by their customer service for repair. But 2 weeks after receiving my scope, they informed me that they no longer repaired this scope. They checked their inventory and after another 3 months had passed, they informed me that they did not have any replacement scopes in inventory and that they had discontinued this scope. Now they are telling me that they will not repair, replace, or even return my scope to me so that I can try to find someone else to repair it.

 

[Deanimator]

Now they are telling me that they will not repair, replace, or even return my scope to me so that I can try to find someone else to repair it.

That's... "interesting". Do they plan to reimburse you for it? Otherwise, that's theft.

People's experiences with S&W customer service tend to be all over the map.

Some people gush all over them. Others damn them worst than the Post Office or the DMV.

I sent them a 4" 29-2 with a factory defective barrel. They fixed the forcing cone, turned it in and returned it to me... with deep cuts in the barrel which weren't there when I sent it to them. It looked like somebody had improperly used some sort of fixture/tool to remove the barrel and damaged it in the process.

When I contacted them, they denied it, but I had before and after pictures. They wanted to reblue it. I wanted it rebarreled. They said they had no barrels. I didn't want my barrel buffed/ground down to eliminate the cuts (NOT scratches). They kept saying they were going to reblue the gun even after I literally told them I'd sue them if they did without my permission.

I finally ended up having to buy two replacement barrels from individuals on line. It was a good thing I bought two, because one had been turned in one time too many to use. The "good" one of course had cosmetic finish wear damage.

So of course when I got the gun back it looked funny, and now it HAD to be reblued. They continued playing games until I got a lawyer friend involved who wrote a letter to their general counsel, explaining that THEY had screwed up the gun, and that I was asking for it to be fixed, not $10,000 in damages.

At that point a VP got involved and the gun was professionally refinished, I was reimbursed for one of the barrels, and I also got a letter from S&W stating that it had been refinished by them. At that point, I considered it a reasonable attempt to make me "whole". Of course the gun (including box, tools and literature) now has ***ZERO*** value, except as a shooter. At least now if some meth head kicks in my door tonight, he can go to his grave knowing that he was killed with a REALLY pretty (albeit monetarily worthless) gun.

What kind of service you get from S&W is quite literally a crapshoot.

 

[HiPlainsDrifter]

I have asked them to reimburse me, but they have refused.

At the time I sent my scope in for repair it had a list price of $424.11 on Smith and Wesson's Thompson Center website. When Midway USA used to carry this scope, they sold it for $297.99. I told them that I would accept the lower price of $297.99 for my scope. So far they have refused to pay me any amount of money for my scope.

 

[DPris]

In looking at a case like this, it's necessary to break it down into its components.

No company can reasonably be expected to maintain either parts or entire replacement units forever.
No company can be expected to service obsolete items indefinitely.

Depending on the nature of the damage/wear/malfunction, it may or may not be reasonable to expect a manufacturer to replace an obsolete product.

If manufacturer defect, they should ideally cover it in some manner (swap you a different model, give you a discount credit on another model, whatever).

If normal wear, no obligation, either in law or in equity.
If user damage, same.

As far as a refund (cash) goes, that may be an unrealistic expectation on your part.
You don't say what was wrong with it.
Was it defect or damage?
Your fault or theirs?
Just wore out after a couple years?
Drop it?

Determining what the nature of the problem is would be the obvious key, followed by who-dunnit (them or you).
Time frame (how long you had it) would be another element.

Obviously, if there's no determinable manufacturer defect, there's no liability on their part.
What's the reason they gave you for not offering you replacement or return?

The no-return is a separate issue & while it's not uncommon for gunmakers to refuse to return un-repairable firearms because of perceived liability issues stated (or created) by their legal departments, there seems to be no vulnerability on the part of the company in returning an un-repairable optic device.

If a maker returns a known defective gun, the theory is that they KNEW it was defective & potentially dangerous, and if you blow your hand off or lose an eye, there MAY be some liability on their part.

That doesn't apply with a defective or non-functional scope; no danger attaches to the owner in use, no vulnerability attaches to the maker who released it.

If it were me, stuff wears out, no model of anything's made forever, I could deal with losing it to wear or my own damage, however unhappily.
However, despite the unlikelihood of being able to get it fixed anywhere else if they couldn't do it, I would be inclined to raise some major noise if a maker I sent a scope to in good faith, looking for repairs, refused to return my property.


One additional problem though, lies in determining your monetary reimbursement request amount.
You don't say how old the scope is.
Regardless, you can't really expect a "new" cost figure as settlement, unless it was a case of manufacturer defect.

There's only part of the story here & while I'm not defending S&W, I AM saying there's only part of the story here.
Denis

 

[Deanimator]

At the least they have to return it. Anything else sounds like theft.

 

[HiPlainsDrifter]

I'll describe things in more detail.

The scope was a couple of years old but it had never been used. The scope had a lifetime warranty. There was not a scratch on the scope and the optics were crisp and clear. It had not been dropped or damaged in any way since the time I purchased it. It had been stored in a locked room and it was not worn out. However, when I bore sighted it in I noticed that although the elevation crosshair moved when I turned the elevation knob, the knob did not click like the windage knob did. I contacted customer service and they told me that the knob should click and they instructed me to send it to their repair shop. I shipped it out the next day and they had it in less than a week.

Although my scope model was still on Smith & Wesson's Thopmson Center website, they told me that they had discontinued that scope and could not replace it. Smith & Wesson tried to get me to accept one of their muzzleloader rifle scopes as a replacement for my pistol scope. Of course, this would not work on a pistol and I had no other need for it so I declined their offer.

 

[DPris]

Better.
So, they did offer you a replacement and it was a maker's defect.

They may not currently carry any handgun glass.

Why do they refuse to return yours?
Why do they say no cash settlement?
Denis

 

[HiPlainsDrifter]

Smith & Wesson was very vague about why they wouldn't return my scope. They didn't respond at all when I first asked them to return it. After two weeks I sent them an email telling them that I hadn't received it yet and I asked them for a tracking number. They finally got back to me and told me "The scope can’t be returned for it has been processed in our system. Once this happens, the scope is no longer kept on the premises."

The scope is still my property and I feel that Smith & Wesson should have kept it safe and secure after I sent it to them. I never authorized them to keep it and I never accepted anything as a replacement or compensation for it. I can't imagine anyone throwing it away especially since it was in new condition.

They said they'd refund my purchase price if I sent them my receipt. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find my receipt. But I told them I'd accept Midway's $297.99 discounted price as opposed to Smith & Wesson's $424.11 price. They told me that they wouldn't give me any money without a receipt.

 

[DPris]

Better still.
Helps when more of the story's included.

Yes, legally it remains your property.
Few of us keep receipts for several years, I certainly don't.
They should have a method of determining what "a" retail sales price was when the scope was in production, at or around the time you bought it.
If it was new/unused, they did have at least some degree of obligation to do something for you on a so-called life-time warranty (I say that because no "life-time warranty" really is).

They did offer you another scope & may be considering that ends their efforts to make you whole.
Are you absolutely sure the glass they offered will not function on a handgun?

Otherwise, if it were me, I'd be going higher.
Either return my property or pay for it.
Denis

 

[HiPlainsDrifter]

Smith & Wesson has stated that they "no longer offer a pistol scope." The only scopes they offered me were Hawken Hunter Muzzleloader Scopes. These scopes have eye reliefs in the neighborhood of 3"-4" and would not work for holding a handgun at arm's length.

I have told Smith & Wesson that I want them to either return my scope, replace it with a comparable pistol scope (Burris, Leupold and Nikon make scopes comparable to my 2.5x-7x recoil proof pistol scope) or pay me for it. They have refused to do any of these things. They want me to give up the scope that I need in exchange for a product that I don't need.

 

[DPris]

Take it up the chain.
Denis

 

[JRWhit]

Perhap it is foolish, I know this is not a poular opinion, but the S&W of today has always given me that gut feeling that says , "stay away from those". It's not a feeling I get often but I try to listen when I do. If I had a chance t an older Smith I'd take it, but the newer Smiths give me turn gut. I'm sorry for the trouble your having and hope they haven't ruined you for life on S&W by the time this gets resolved.
With what has been laid out so far, all I can say is you simply can't just keep someone elses property without some kind of agreeable compensation.

 

[dprice3844444]

file a complaint with the federal trade commission and small claims court.go for breach of contract.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#crnt&panel1-1

 

[btg3]

Several years ago, I sent a pistol back to SW. They phoned to say that the bad news was they could not repair the pistol; and the good news was that I could select a new pistol. I was beyond satisfied.

Hope this works out well for you eventually hpDrifter.

 

[Malamute]

If you bought it from Midway, they may have a record of the sale, or the method you used to pay for it, like your credit card, may have a record if you didn't keep your monthly statements.

As to deanimator, I certainly wouldn't say a factory refinished 29-2 has zero value. I'm not sure where the idea that it was worth nothing on the market would come from. Perhaps not as much as a like new example, but certainly not zero.

 

[Cee Zee]

Few of us keep receipts for several years, I certainly don't.

I have every receipt for everything of substantial value that I've bought for the last 15 years. I have boxes of them around. I generally have a box for every year or sometimes 2 years. It really pays to keep all receipts.

In this case I'd only have one word for the OP - lawyer. Maybe try the state attorney general. Some of those try to help. Others ignore you. It really isn't something that can help a whole lot but it's worth a try and it doesn't cost anything.

I'd be complaining to Midway too. They buy lots of stuff from S&W so they have a lot more leverage with them. Things like this are the reason I like to use a LGS for major purchases. They need your business and they will try to help you.

 

[buck460XVR]

Sounds like there may be an overall issue with the scopes. Just because they show scopes our their website, does not mean they are still available. Many times those website are out of date. S&W may be trying to get out of the scope business. Looking at the TC webpage myself this morning, I see no offering of any handgun scopes. https://secure.tcarms.com/store/scopes-and-mounts/scopes/


They may have offered you the only option they have and you refused. The warranty probably says they can repair, replace or refund at their choice. If you refused that choice, the discussion may be over, because you ended it. Going higher up will probably not get you your money. If anything you will get offered something else of comparable retail value.

 

[Deanimator]

As to deanimator, I certainly wouldn't say a factory refinished 29-2 has zero value. I'm not sure where the idea that it was worth nothing on the market would come from. Perhaps not as much as a like new example, but certainly not zero.

It certainly has zero COLLECTOR value. At the time and after rebluing, I think it was roughly worth what a well maintained Glock or SIG was worth. My guess is they cut the value in half. People with a lot more experience than me told me I was better off selling it and getting another that hadn't been thrown into a drawer full of stove bolts. Of course given what I could have sold it for, I never could have afforded to replace it in the first place, so the choice was no value or no gun at all.

The initial incompetence coupled with the after the fact dishonesty and attempts to dictate to me certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. They eventually made what could be considered a good faith effort to make me "whole", (after lawyers got involved) but the truth is, they left me with nothing more than a pretty home defense gun with a box and accessories.

 

[Deanimator]

Smith & Wesson has stated that they "no longer offer a pistol scope." The only scopes they offered me were Hawken Hunter Muzzleloader Scopes. These scopes have eye reliefs in the neighborhood of 3"-4" and would not work for holding a handgun at arm's length.

I'd tell them that's a joke.

Unless they're throwing in a muzzle loader on which to mount it, that scope is utterly worthless to you. They might as well have offered you a stack of video games (for a system you don't even own) as that scope.

It reminds me of the Jim Gaffigan joke about people giving you useless gifts and expecting you to return them. You intended to buy a working pistol scope, not add to your "chores". Your time is not without value. Depending upon the effort you'd have to expend to sell that useless (to you) scope, its value might be a negative number.

It's debatable whether they have a duty to replace it or reimburse you for it. There's NO doubt that they must do either of those OR return it. Offering you something useless to you instead is unacceptable.

 

[goon]

Regardless of what's going on, the issue here and in Deanimator's case is the company's lack of empathy for the customer.

Good customer service starts with the needs of the customer and works from there to what can be done to make the problem right. It shouldn't start with what is easiest for the company.

 

[HiPlainsDrifter]

Take it up the chain.
Denis

I have started to take it up the chain.

I sent an email to Smith & Wesson's customer service supervisor with a copy to their director of marketing. My email included my email records dealing with their customer service department. I thought that they'd be embarrassed that their customer service department had told me to send in my scope for repairs and then after I sent it to them they told me that they no longer repaired scopes. I thought they'd be embarrassed about how slow Smith & Wesson had been to respond to my inquiries about the status of my scope and how slow they had been to try to resolve this issue. And I thought that after I asked their customer service department to send my scope back to me, and they told me they didn't have it anymore and would not return it to me, that their customer service supervisor and director of marketing would make a sincere effort to replace my scope with something comparable.

Not so. I sent them my email September 7 and neither of them have replied to it.

 

[HiPlainsDrifter]

file a complaint with the federal trade commission and small claims court.go for breach of contract.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#crnt&panel1-1

Have you ever done this? I'd certainly be willing to file a complaint. But it would be expensive if I had to travel to MA for small claims court.

 

[buck460XVR]

Have you ever done this? I'd certainly be willing to file a complaint. But it would be expensive if I had to travel to MA for small claims court.

Again, the S&W nor the TC website currently show any handgun scopes available from them. This may be why they are only offering you what the have......a muzzleloader scope. You have not given us details of the warranty, but again, I assume they read that TC/SW can repair or replace at their discretion. You tell us the scope was a coupla years old and had been locked away in storage. Does this men you are not the original owner? This in itself may nullify the warranty. If the scope is of a defective design(one reason it may be pulled) and/or not available anymore, their only other option is to offer you another scope at a comparable cost. If they have record of you refusing that good faith offer, than hoping they give you a cash reimbursement or go out and buy you another brand of scope, may be just a pipe dream.

Although my scope model was still on Smith & Wesson's Thopmson Center website, they told me that they had discontinued that scope and could not replace it. Smith & Wesson tried to get me to accept one of their muzzleloader rifle scopes as a replacement for my pistol scope. Of course, this would not work on a pistol and I had no other need for it so I declined their offer.

You should tho, be able to have gotten your defective scope back, even tho you may have had to pay the shipping cost. Why you would want the defective scope back that is worth nuttin' as is(it could very well be irreparable or not worth the expense) as opposed to a new scope with a value, that could be sold/traded, is hard for me to understand. While complaining to the FTC may make you feel better, you need to be prepared to go farther than them. From their website....

The FTC cannot resolve individual complaints, but we can provide information about what next steps to take.

Every company that has been around for a while makes a stinker or two. S&W/TC is no exception. The scopes are probably subbed out to a second party manufacturer that produces the scopes to S&W/TCs specs. That contact may have expired or gone bad. The absence of those scopes from the website now tells me they were not very good scopes, or not very good sellers. S&W/TC did make a standard good faith offer, a scope of comparable value. If they decide to go farther than that, I'd consider it going above and beyond. I am not siding with S&W/TC, but relating to real life and feel they have done(other than return your defective scope at your expense) what reasonably is within their powers and your rights over a $300 scope. I hope you and they can come to a reasonable agreement that works for everybody.

 

[Schwing]

Your experience is not uncommon IMO. It is a very long story that I won't bother spelling out but it was an experience like this with S&W customer service a few years back that drove me away. Personally, I will never buy another S&W product because of how dishonest and completely unhelpful they are in backing up their products when they are defective.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I had a not so good experience with there online store. Without getting into the lengthy details, it took them about 6 weeks for them to ship me a pair of wood J-frame grips, and many hours of my life wasted on hold. Nightmare is a good wood for it, I will never buy anything of the S&W store website again.