Smith & Wesson Customer Service

[Deanimator]

If they have record of you refusing that good faith offer

A scope that can't be used on a handgun in exchange for one that can isn't a "good faith offer". Why would a man who doesn't own a muzzleloader, want a muzzleloader scope, especially to mount on a handgun?

That scope is WORTHLESS to him.

If you had a defective toaster, would you accept as a "replacement" a stand mixer... especially if you do no baking of any sort and never plan to?

 

[buck460XVR]

A scope that can't be used on a handgun in exchange for one that can isn't a "good faith offer". Why would a man who doesn't own a muzzleloader, want a muzzleloader scope, especially to mount on a handgun?

That scope is WORTHLESS to him.

If you had a defective toaster, would you accept as a "replacement" a stand mixer... especially if you do no baking of any sort and never plan to?

It comes down to what one considers "good faith". If one has a defective item(like a toaster or a scope) and the manufacturer does not have or does not produce the same product, what else are they going to offer for replacement? You either will get something they do have/product of equivalent value or you will get a credit to use for another one of their products thru them. How can they replace an item if the no longer have it or produce it? While the scope may be worthless to him, it does have value. More value than a broken scope or no scope at all. It also comes down to the terms of the warranty of which we have not been told anything. I also think that S&W's offer to refund his cash price if he can provide his receipt, is a good faith offer. This is what most places require in order to make a refund. This means it was bought new, not used and that it was bought and not stolen and trying to be returned for cash. Standard procedure. But the OP states....

They said they'd refund my purchase price if I sent them my receipt. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find my receipt.

Okay, should S&W really give everyone full cash back for something they cannot prove they bought? Does any legitimate manufacturer/retailer?

While I agree that S&W should return the broken scope, since it would probably be on the OPs dime and still broken, what's the point? Wouldn't a replacement of any kind or refund(if he can find the receipt) still be a better option? The OP was offered another available scope or a money refund. I consider that "good faith". I also don't think expecting them to replace a cheap piece of glass with a Leupold is reasonable.

 

[JRWhit]

Good faith offer refers to an exchange in place of an item that cannot be repaired to original or replaced due to availability, for another of similar value. Let's not forget that the op was told to have this scope sent in for repair. If the offer was refused then there is still a matter of property here. That does not mean that the failed scope may be kept and not returned. The good faith offer was made in exchange for the failed scope. So even if it is refused then the failed scope must be returned to the owner. It is up to the owner to determine if it is worth it to him to have his property back in its failed condition reguardless the opinions of S&W.
My own opinion is that S&W was a bit absurd offering a muzzle loader scope and should have offered a credit toward future purchases if anything. The only snag is the proof of purchase which didn't seem to be a concern until he replied that a muzzleloader scope just wouldn't cut it.

 

[buck460XVR]

The only snag is the proof of purchase which didn't seem to be a concern until he replied that a muzzleloader scope just wouldn't cut it.

I assume that the receipt is to determine the amount of refund/credit. The OP claims there was a list price and a lower price that Midway sold them for. Without a receipt how does S&W determine what he paid? Yes he's willing to accept the lower Midway price, but did he pay at least that or less? You don't buy something on sale and then try and return it for cash for the original price. This is why most places demand a receipt for a refund. Not a uncommon request.

 

[JRWhit]

Limited Lifetime Warranty - Warrants the product to be free of defects in materials and workmanship for as long as the product is owned by the original owner.

this is the current warranty info on Thompson Center pistol scopes. If possible I would track down proof of purchase before getting serious about replacement but would remain insistant that the property be returned to you. Without proving yourself as the original owner then return is the only possibility here.

 

[Deanimator]

It comes down to what one considers "good faith". If one has a defective item(like a toaster or a scope) and the manufacturer does not have or does not produce the same product, what else are they going to offer for replacement? You either will get something they do have/product of equivalent value or you will get a credit to use for another one of their products thru them. How can they replace an item if the no longer have it or produce it? While the scope may be worthless to him, it does have value. More value than a broken scope or no scope at all. It also comes down to the terms of the warranty of which we have not been told anything. I also think that S&W's offer to refund his cash price if he can provide his receipt, is a good faith offer. This is what most places require in order to make a refund. This means it was bought new, not used and that it was bought and not stolen and trying to be returned for cash. Standard procedure. But the OP states....

A credit on a new purchase is reasonable.

Return of the original merchandise is reasonable.

A refund with proof of purchase is reasonable.

Replacement with something useless to the purchaser is not reasonable.

The mere fact that he's willing to accept return of the defective product should be proof enough that he's not trying to scam them. If they lost or threw it away without having a reasonable substitute beforehand isn't the OP's fault. This looks like a CYA move on S&W's part.

 

[HiPlainsDrifter]

Why I want my scope back:

1. The scope may work for my intended purpose as is.

2. If the scope does not work, I may be able to find someone who can fix it.

3. It's still my property and I believe in property rights.


I first contacted customer service because even though I was able to bore sight the scope in, the elevation knob wouldn't click when I turned it. I was afraid that the scope might not hold zero when it was subjected to repeated recoil. When I told customer service about this problem, they couldn't say whether or not the scope would be functional, but they did say "Both the windage and elevation adjustments should click so im guessing something may be wrong and I would send it in." They gave me instructions on how to send it in, and I sent it in the next day.

However, I intended to use this scope on a 22 k-hornet 14" Thompson Center bull barrel. There's not much recoil with that. The scope might have held zero without any problem. Some scope models have adjustment knobs on them that don't click at all and are held in adjustment by friction. I noticed that the adjustment knob on this scope had frictional resistance when I turned it. It might have worked fine for my purposes.

There are people who repair some models of out of production scopes. When I did a quick internet search I did not find anyone who listed the Thompson Center 2.5 x 7 Recoil Proof Scope as one of the ones they repaired, but there may be someone who does. Besides, this scope is pretty common on TC barrels, and since it's just recently been discontinued someone may start repairing it.

It's still my scope. It's still my property. I never authorized Smith & Wesson to dispose of it. They should have kept it safe for me while it was in their possession and eventually returned it to me unless I agreed to something else in exchange for it.

 

[Malamute]

Have you contacted Midway to try to get a copy of the invoice?

Have you checked with the records of the payment type you used to buy it? They should have a record.

At the very least, coming up with an invoice or record of the sale, they'll reimburse you for the scope. At this point, it may be the best option, getting your money back.

 

[buck460XVR]

Why I want my scope back:

1. The scope may work for my intended purpose as is.

2. If the scope does not work, I may be able to find someone who can fix it.

3. It's still my property and I believe in property rights.



It's still my scope. It's still my property. I never authorized Smith & Wesson to dispose of it. They should have kept it safe for me while it was in their possession and eventually returned it to me unless I agreed to something else in exchange for it.

From the start, I agreed that S&W should have kept your scope and returned it to you when you asked to have it returned. Unless there was a clause somewhere in the warranty or the return policy, I would think not only is it ethical, but the legal way to handle it. Exceptions are as I know with guns, if they are determined unsafe.

I've delved into having a scope fixed too. Coupla places I checked told me $100-$150 minimum just to open it up, depending on how the lenses were set. Add to that shipping both ways and maybe parts and labor extra, I decided against it on a $200 scope. If someone offered me a new scope instead, regardless of whether I could use the platform or not, I'da jumped all over it. But I didn't have that choice. Sounds like as for now, your best bet is to try and continue up the ladder, accept a different scope you could use for trade or sell for cash, or find your receipt. While you are caught in a paradox with the scope being discontinued/unfixable/non-replaceable, it does seem as tho S&W, other than throwing away your broken scope is trying to work with you.

 

[NOMI WASP]

Unless I missed it,

1.Did OP clearly purchase this scope from Midway?
2. If no, is OP the first owner?
3. Can OP provide a 30 bank record showing the purchase?
4. Have you asked to speak with management at S&W?

If you didn't purchase the scope new, than you have no warrenty. I once bought a truck and the saleman told me it had the 100,000 warrenty from Dodge, Oh course I had an issue and was told, the warrenty is only for the guy who bought it new. Live and lean, traded it in on a NEW Truck that I love so I guess it worked out in the end.

 

[Deanimator]

While you are caught in a paradox with the scope being discontinued/unfixable/non-replaceable, it does seem as tho S&W, other than throwing away your broken scope is trying to work with you.

That's a pretty big "other than".

He obviously has NO use for the muzzle loader scope. Why should HE have to put up with the nuisance and expense of trying to sell it to mitigate THEIR negligence?

He didn't break the original scope, nor did he throw it away.

As annoying as my experience with S&W was, they didn't try to replace my Model 29 with an outboard motor or a pair of skis.