Soldiers and hearing protection

[Prince Yamato]

As a classical musician and a teacher, I've had a number of students who were active military and were going to Iraq. I am pro-war and very supportive of the military, but I've always wondered... what does the military do to protect the hearing of the troops? I know that as a musician, I have different priorities than a soldier, but I do think of the possibilities that my students could come back deaf (and obviously, but hopefully not, worse) or with hearing damage. I know that the military has things like silencers, etc. available to them, but you never (at least on TV) see soldiers making use of them. Ear plugs would obviously be impractical in combat, yet one of my students told me that most of the time, soldiers use hand-signals for commanding squads in combat. I was also reading Soldier of Fortune recently where they had a preview of the (Jackhammer?) Machine Shotgun. As far as I know, shotguns are deafening and there are no shotgun silencers. I began to think, while this gun was strategically effective, we'd still have a bunch of people coming back functionally deaf after the war. Again, I don't want to be like one of those do-gooders who complained about the body-armor and then we had troops with 200 lbs of armor on and they couldn't move in it (and subsequently discarded some of it) and do more harm than good, but thinking post-war, how do we prevent hearing loss DURING war?

 

[Flak_Jakett]

Well, being a veteran I guess I'll reply. During training earplugs are required to get on the range. Outside of training, earplugs are not worn at all for obvious reasons. I now have a condition in which I have to live with a high pitched ringing noise for the rest of my life. Some days are worse than others. It sounds kind of like someone left a television on with the volume muted. It kind of sucks, but hey, alot more vets have to deal with much worse right?

 

[TimboKhan]

I will more or less back up what Flak-Jakett said. We were required to use them on the range, but in all other venues, they were more of a hindrance. Even with the protection we used (foam plugs) I still get a good ringing in my ears now and again, and I have trouble understanding people when there is backround noise, especially if they speak in a low register.

 

[Jeff White]

The Army issues ear plugs. They are fitted to every soldier in reception station. Use of earpro is required on the range, around loud vehicles and aircraft.

However, that doesn't mean that everone always uses it. And even if you do always use it, you can't spend a career in ground combat arms (Infantry, Armor, Artillery or Combat Engineers) without suffering some kind of hearing loss.

When I retired I was rated 10% disabled for the hearing loss that I suffered. I also suffer from tinnitus (the ringing in the ears mentioned earlier). The VA sends me a nice check every month and the Army happily deducts a like amount from my retired pay.....

They have some new earplugs now, they were just hitting the system when I retired. You're supposed to be able to use them in combat. My son who is an Infantryman in 4th ID and presently deployed to Iraq says most of the guys aren't wearing them.

The other option is electronic muffs like those sold by Sordin and Peltor. They have models that are compatible with radios and the new ACH helmet will accomdate them. Unfortunately you have to be pretty far up the food chain to have those issued to you and not every soldier is going to spend several hundred dollars out of his pocket.

Jeff

 

[Lebben-B]

When I retired I was rated 10% disabled for the hearing loss that I suffered.

The army has really tightened it's stance toward hearing protection. So much so that it no longer gives disability for hearing loss. DA's stance is now along the lines of, "All Soldiers are issued ear plugs, it's army policy to use them and if a Soldier doesn't use them, then DA isn't going to pay him for disobeying an order."

Mike

 

[Manedwolf]

They have models that are compatible with radios and the new ACH helmet will accomdate them. Unfortunately you have to be pretty far up the food chain to have those issued to you and not every soldier is going to spend several hundred dollars out of his pocket.

Huh. At least with the historical crusades, the leaders bought their knights the best armor money could buy before sending them off to the middle east.

The Romans also kept their legions equipped with the best.

That's just disgraceful to me that we, as the United States, can't do better than that. A first-world superpower ought to give the latest and best protective equipment to EVERY soldier. This sounds more like a third-world endeavour.

Making soldiers pay for a device that would save them from incurring hearing loss as they engage the enemy to protect their fellow soldiers and all of us back here.

Yeah. That's gratitude, alright. There's already a foundation that takes donations to buy the new helmet liners for soldiers, the ones that keep the helmet from whacking their head on impact...maybe there should be one for these, too, since the govt' seems more interested in paying six-figure [strike]mercenary[/strike] contractor salaries than equipping the enlisted men and women?

 

[Travis McGee]

WHAT? SPEAK UP, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

 

[Firethorn]

Huh. At least with the historical crusades, the leaders bought their knights the best armor money could buy before sending them off to the middle east.

Umm... I believe most of the knights bought their own armor, and what the peasents got wasn't nearly as good.

As for equiping the troops, well, we do our best. It can take time to buy 100k helmets, for example.

Still, complain to congress.

 

[MarkDido]

When I retired I was rated 10% disabled for the hearing loss that I suffered. I also suffer from tinnitus (the ringing in the ears mentioned earlier). The VA sends me a nice check every month and the Army happily deducts a like amount from my retired pay.....

I retired in 1995 with a 30% disability rating from the VA. When I had my separation physical, I was told my hearing was better than when I first enlisted in 1973. Spent 23 years working around jet aircraft and on the flight deck of 5 different aircraft carriers.

Maybe they'll eventually get around to concurrent receipt for us "lower rated" folks with service connected disabilities. Only those 50% and above receive it now, but it's a good start.

 

[BsChoy]

The only military that I know uses ear pro in combat are snipers especially with the 50 cals....other than that you're losing your hearing...better than a limb

 

[dragongoddess]

did you spend time in the military------yes
ringing in ears------check
trouble understnding others-------check
reasons
tanks. weapons, missiles and the ever present 400hz hum from combat power

But I have one working joint that was not damaged,injured or broken. My right elbow is in great shape. No pain. Easy movement through range of motion.
The rest of me though is toast .

 

[jondar]

I escaped titinnus (sp?) thank heaven, but like posted above have trouble understanding when someone speaks with a modification of speech. I hear and understand TV news anchors with their impeccable diction, even at low volume, but let someone with a slight accent speak and it's like a foreign language. I still maintain that artillery is the greatest offender in this respect.

 

[possum]

Like others have said ear protection is required at the range and other various places. They tried, and i mean tried to make us wear them in Iraq, but It didn't happen, not after the first couple weeks. I personally have low tone hearing loss, from mortars, IED's, 240b, and definetly the 25mm. it ain't that bad but I have a hard time heraring my wife sometimes, but she likes to think that is selective listening! what! I would never do that!

 

[Leanwolf]

U.S. Army '59-'61 (plus two years Reserve & two years inactive Reserve.) No combat, but lots of rifle practice.

Issue weapon was an M1 Garand, .30-06.

There was no ear protection issued at that time. On the rifle range, some of the sergeants would stick cotton in their ears, but none for us.

I don't know what it would be like in combat, but just think of being on the firing line with 50 .30-06 rifles going off at the same time, eight times in a row. Lots of fun for your ears.

That's just the way it was, then.

FWIW. L.W.

 

[Mk VII]

as Cooper said, "If we had known we were going to live so long after all those battles, we might have worn ear plugs".
All such devices are going to degrad your stereophonic hearing in battle, as well as being hot and uncomfortable. You need to be able to hear what's going on to be able to come home afterwards and complain about tinnitus

 

[SigfanUSAF]

2A551B, Crew Chief C-130E aircraft. For the most part we had nice blue hearing protectors. Those Allison T56A-15s kinda screwd up the hearing in my left ear. I can't talk on the phone with it

 

[Brian Dale]

I knew a guy who'd been a waist gunner on a B-17 in WWII. He wasn't quite as deaf as a post. Great guy; Requiescat In Pace, Jim.

Dad's hearing loss wasn't as bad; he'd been a Field Artilleryman in combat in Korea.

Glad that they're doing what they can to protect some hearing now.

 

[Abby]

Spent a year in Iraq. Got back in May.

The Army issued us "combat ear plugs." They were double-ended, green and yellow. Now...let me think...I believe it was the yellow end in we were supposed to wear to kind of...dull, or mitigate, loud sounds. The green ends went in when you were anticipating loud noises.

I was part of a unit that did a lot of traveling around and stopping to look at things. Since I had another job in the company, I often manned the turret on one of our vehicles (and yes - I'm suffering separation issues about my M240B, but let's not talk about that).

Wearing the hearing protecting was HIGHLY ENCOURAGED. I sat in on staff meetings where battalion commanders and S3s pounded the subject to death. It was almost as big a deal as eye protection.

None of us liked the ear plugs, but we got in that habit of wearing them, at least when we were rolling and running a chance of getting "blowed up." My truck got directly "blowed up" once. I was wearing my ear plugs - they were blown out, but my earsdrums didn't rupture. Our group also took a VBIED hit when stationary - I was NOT wearing my earplugs then (couldn't get the hang of using the radio with them). Eardrums also did not rupture, but my ears rang a LONG time with that one.

The ear plugs are good. The Army is trying its best to get people to use them. One of the biggest drawbacks is that they're hard to keep track of - it's easy to lose one and there usually aren't a lot extras. I tried a couple of different "string systems" to keep track of mine, but in the end probably went through 25 or 30 while I was there.

Props to the Army for trying to combat hearing damage. The medics asked each time we'd go in after getting blowed up, "were you wearing your ears?"

 

[ZDavidoff]

USAF 2T251 here. I load cargo planes, mostly C-5s and KC-10s. When we're out on the flightline near an aircraft we must be wearing hearing protection and if the APUs are on then we have to wear double protection.
The APUs on a C-5 are bigger than the engines on most executive jets.
Most of us still get out with a 10% disability though.

 

[Futuristic]

New Combat Ear Plugs

Sorry I don't know the NSN or official designation, but the new double-ended Combat Ear Plugs are readily available here in the States to civilians.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=453211

That is a link to the Peltor version, Browning also markets them, though I think they are exactly the same, only more expensive than the Peltor version.

They are rated at 22db reduction, though based on my experience with them, I think that is a little optimistic when using the yellow ends in, green out (combat usage, no yellow showing, supposed to be Noise Activated). They do seem to be good for 22db when using the green ends in, yellow ends out (indoor/constant noise mode).

Futuristic

 

[Jeff White]

Lebben-B said;

The army has really tightened it's stance toward hearing protection. So much so that it no longer gives disability for hearing loss. DA's stance is now along the lines of, "All Soldiers are issued ear plugs, it's army policy to use them and if a Soldier doesn't use them, then DA isn't going to pay him for disobeying an order."

Mike,
Do have something from the VA stating this? DOD doesn't pay the disabilty pension, it comes from the Veterans Administration. When I retired in 2003, they split my retirement physical, all of the labs, EKG, X-rays were done by the Army. I went to a VA hospital for the actual physical, the Army's part was forwarded to them there. All of the rumors and horror stories I had heard about the VA were proved to be urban legends in my experience. They did a detailed review of everything I had been treated for in the past 28 years and the physical specifically checked those things. There was an audiogram that I had taken on the Army side that showed a very slight high freqeuncy hearing loss. They looked at that and the MOS's I had held (11B, 13B) and sent me for a consult with an audiologist where I took the most comprehensive hearing test I have ever had. Besides the tone in the ear test the Army does, I had to identify sounds and spoken words at various volumes and frequencies. It was the results of that test that got me rated 10% disabled. All in all the VA experience was a good one that was designed to identify any problems you were leaving the service with and make sure if you were entitled to compensation that you received it.

I think what is getting put out is one of those stories that people sometimes tell soldiers to make them follow a directive. DOD has nothing to do with how a disability is determined, nor do they pay the disabilty benefit. In fact, if you are retiring, it benefits DOD for you to get disability from the VA because they deduct a like amount from your pension, which DOD does pay.

Jeff

 

[AndyC]

From a PSD-contractor perspective, no earplugs while on duty (only used them on the range) but we had a radio earpiece in one ear which seemed to block the higher frequencies of gunfire. It helped bugger-all for protecting the other ear, of course - I sometimes experience a high-pitched "ziiiiiing", but my hearing's generally fine.

 

[MrZ]

"Ear plugs would obviously be impractical in combat..."

Not true at all.

Combat can occur in a multitude of environments, and while some environments rely much more heavily on your ability to HEAR an enemy FIRST in order to take action, some environments rely more on SEEING the enemy first.

Some soldiers just don't understand that it is better to have reduced hearing due to earplug use vs. NO hearing after the rounds start going downrange.

 

[AndyC]

...while some environments rely much more heavily on your ability to HEAR an enemy FIRST in order to take action, some environments rely more on SEEING the enemy first

In the first instance that you mention, the result is that wearing earplugs would be detrimental...and in the second, would have no effect at all. So...what's your point?

That being said, I also think earplugs have potential - I've just never used them myself.

 

[hso]

Current issue that was previously mentioned. One side with a valve that clamps shut in response to fast rise time noise like weapons fire. The other side is a standard plug for around machinery.

how do we prevent hearing loss DURING war?

I'm not aware of any practicable way to do that, and I'm one of the 3 health and safety pros on THR. Effective systems are bulky and expensive. The plugs currently issued are cheap and compact, but have to be worn and interfere critical communication between individuals. Your friends and relatives and students will probably come back with hearing loss.