Stabbing outside our condo: Thoughts?

[fireflyfather]

Story link:
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stor...18-year-old-man-partying/?metro&zIndex=148267

Sure, I read all the stories here on THR about various things going down in people's neighborhoods. I've had a stolen tank drive down my street (15 years ago or so), had some local crackpot point a loaded rifle at my brother's elementary school, listen to pipe bombs go off at the same school at night, etc (in a mildly expensive middle-class neighborhood!). I am no stranger to people behaving like dangerous idiots, but this is the first time it's happened in our new neighborhood.

So, yeah, we did just buy a condo in the San Diego version of redneckville, but the stories of meth-heads and psychos in the comments under the newspaper article are exaggerated. (We do have a few sheet-heads and their ilk, but it's mostly a nice neighborhood. The worst we have to deal with are a few small, slightly loud Friday night parties down the road).

So, about 3:00 this morning we hear shouting, followed soon after by sheriffs deputies telling someone to "get the F**K down on the ground" about 50 yards from our balcony (we're second floor). Figured it was a drunk driving arrest or something similar, since there is some of that around here (The main road leading to one of the Indian casinos goes right by our cross-street). Turns out some guy was running from the sheriffs after stabbing a guy over a loud music dispute.

So a tactical question and a hoplophobe wife question:
1. Tactical question: Obviously, we stayed indoors, away from windows, etc. Let the cops handle it since they were on-scene. That's a no-brainer. However, there is ONE possibility here that might have gone bad. The master bedroom window could conceivably be accessed from the roof of the communal garage building, if someone used water meters to jump the fence for the gated community we live in. It's unlikely, and all other access points are secure (iron bars, downstairs neighbor's dogs in yard, high windows, etc), but had the guy tried to evade police, the (knife-less by this point) guy could have used our window as a get-away route. Condo association won't let us put up bars, for sure, but what else can we do to discourage that sort of access?

2. Hoplophobe question: My wife is Japanese, hates guns, violence, etc, and has said that she literally would rather die than take a life to defend herself (a true pacifist in the literal sense, a part of her Buddhist upbringing ). Adamantly opposed to having firearms in the house itself (in storage nearby currently). Obviously, this is not a point of agreement between us, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. Anyone here have a successful experience negotiating this particular discussion? Familiarizing her with firearms is NOT an option. Thoughts?

 

[oneounceload]

She sounds totally closed minded about this and with the upbringing about it, sounds like she will never change her mind

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
— Dalai Lama XIV

 

[TXHORNS]

Tough situation. Can you put up interior bars? Sounds as if the window is on the second floor? If its ground level you can plant rose bushes with thorns in front of the window like I did.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

You really should include the rest of that quote. In context, it isn't quite the same.

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg."

Source.

 

[rainbowbob]

Anyone here have a successful experience negotiating this particular discussion? Familiarizing her with firearms is NOT an option. Thoughts?

I can't help you with the first question, but I do have some experience with the second.

If you go to corneredcat.com (written by a member here) you will find a large selection of very good articles on self defense and firearms. These are written by a woman supposedly for women. I say "supposedly" because I'm not a woman and I have found the info there to be inspiring and invaluable.

Spend some time reading, and then pick out a few that you think your wife might be able to relate to - or at least be willing to read - and print them. When the time seems right, hand her a printed article and ask her to read it just to 'humor" you.

It's a start.

I endured some pretty harsh "discussions" with my hard-headed, hopolophobic wife when I began shooting and carrying regularly a couple years ago. Although she still hates guns and wants nothing to do with them - she has accepted the fact that I am a responsible shooter, who practices regularly, and who has no interest in killing anyone or being a hero.

She is resigned to the fact that this is important to me and that I'm not going to change my mind about it. I will add that we've been married 33 years and have always fought passionately about the stuff that is important to us. That's just the way we are and we still love each other for better or worse.

My handgun started in the garage, moved to the bedroom closet, and finally to the night-stand (but locked up when the grandson is here). When she questioned the night-stand placement, I told her that if I need it in the middle of the night, I don't want to have to fight my way to it. That seemed to make sense to her.

Also...an incident at a dog park not long ago wherein I was nearly assaulted in front of her and our grandson had some impact on her attitude. Although my firearm never made an appearance - it came close. Had the assault continued, I'd have been screwed without it - and she knew it.



Now...be prepared for at least a half dozen posts insisting that you divorce your wife. They come out every time this problem is addressed here.

Good luck.

 

[fireflyfather]

Divorce also not an option. I wouldn't do that to my kid (three years old), my wife, or myself. She's great, just not always practical. She's even more of an idealist than I am. Besides, I'm old school.

I've read the entire cornered cat site. Good stuff, but a lot of it is more geared towards women wanting to carry. That's not happening, and to be honest, because of her upbringing and attitude, a lot of the stereotypes would apply (have it used against you, hurt yourself, etc). I would never push her towards something she is uncomfortable with. I am thinking more along the lines of not having major arguments over a firearm locked in a safe INSIDE the home.

 

[CTGunner]

How would he get into the window if it was closed and locked? In a situation where someone is being chased they are going to look for the easiest escape possible. Your closed and locked window will not be a viable option.

Don't ask your wife for her permission. Do what you want to do. You aren't going to divorce her because she doesn't like guns. If she is willing to divorce you because you do then that's her issue. I doubt it will get to that.

Go get a shotgun and tell her it's to hunt birds, if she asks. When she realizes you aren't negotiating the point she'll let it go. Once you have a long gun in the house future purchases won't be as much of a stretch.

 

[LightningJoe]

Well, you'll have to desensitize her. Little by little. Right now, you've got a gun, but it's in storage. Then, it's in your car outside. Then, it's in the attic. Then, it's in a locked box in the study. Then, it's in a locked box in a drawer in your dresser. And so on.

 

[mg.mikael]

Wow I can't believe you're Japanese wife is such a pacifist. I wish during WWII more Japanese people were like her, but they fought with every breath they had.

You should tell your wife something like.....if you wanna sit down and give up go do it in the corner, but I'm gonna fight to protect what I care about and if you feel the same way about me, you'd do the same.

 

[2nd 41]

My friends wife has no love for guns. Her husband owned a few before they got married>>>>>>>fast forward....he tells me one night they heard a sound they thought was coming from the basement...she got nervous quickly and asked her hubby if he had That Thing available. Fortunately nothing happened and she never questioned her hubbies responsible ownership....just in case.

 

[fireflyfather]

Lack of firearms is not a problem. I cast bullets, and reload my own. I'm speaking more about talking points for making the move (for at least one handgun) into the house proper. The original discussion involving firearms was to be part of our emergency kit, and to get them away from a potentially suicidal relative who had just lost their spouse.

I'd also like to hear more ideas about reinforcing the window without adding bars. Keeping the windows shut and locked in the summer is not really a solution here. It can be over 100 in the daytime, and the house retains a lot of the heat, even after it cools down outside. I suppose we could close that window and keep the others open, but then we get no cross-wind. Air conditioning bills here can more than double our monthly electric bill. Kind of hard on the budget of a family who are new homeowners. I don't think we can plant nasty bushes near the meters, since they need to be read. I know the HOA won't let us put up anything nasty on the roof of the garage. I know that it is HIGHLY unlikely that someone fleeing the police would use our window to escape, but the thought crossed my mind after I read in the paper this afternoon what happened (we didn't peek out until after it was all over. The sheriffs had it under control).

Wow I can't believe you're Japanese wife is such a pacifist. I wish during WWII more Japanese people were like her, but they fought with every breath they had.

Sure they did. Like her grandfather who went AWOL rather than fight. I hate to break it to you, but just like Germany, there were a whole lot of folks who didn't much like the war, but the Japanese had secret police too, and they would take it out on the families of people caught not giving 100%+ to the war effort/engaging in suicide tactics, etc. Her grandfather was lucky he didn't get caught/ratted out. Oh, and the next three generations grew up with the whole "victim of the atom bomb, peace at any cost" embedded in their culture. My grandmother watched Tokyo burn down around her and got shot at by allied pilots as a junior high school student. That kind of thing does something to you deep down inside. It's not any great wonder to me why modern Japan has such a wide pacifistic streak, at least on the surface. It's a pretty different place than it was 70+ years ago. If you want an idea of just how much the Japanese culture at large hates war, go rent a film called grave of the fireflies. It's the animated story of two orphans of the tokyo firebombing (see above) who slowly starve to death in the aftermath. Probably the most depressing movie ever made. It was wildly popular in Japan, and made by their equivalent of Disney. In any case, this mentality is a big part of what I'm dealing with in attempting to convince my wife. It's immensely complicated, and probably off topic, but the short version is that modern Japanese culture has been pretty staunchly pacifist for two or three generations.

 

[03Shadowbob]

Be the man of the relationship. Get a gun or two and be done with it. It is your duty to protect your family with every available tool. It is your God given right to own a firearm which will help with protecting your family. If she doesn't want to ever touch it, fine but who does she think she is to tell you that you do not have the right to self preservation? I'm just sayin'.

 

[MisterMike]

It seems to me that this latest incident provides the starting point for a discussion. Your cultural differences will complicate this, obviously, but one thing a mother understands is fighting to the death for her children. That's the way I'd couch it--though you don't agree with her viewpoint of accepting death above armed resistance, that's not the choice you believe is right for your child. Nor can you accept the idea that, as a husband, you are in the position where you might not be able to protect her.

I understand the visceral negative reaction many have to guns. But you need to impress upon her that, while you accept her personal choice, your belief is that it is your duty to protect her and her child.

As far as the immediate issue of securing the window, a couple of things come to mind. First, you should do as much as you can to strengthen and secure the frame. A couple of pins through the sashes can make a window much more difficult to open. If it's not a window you use for ventilation, you could even use wood screws to secure the sash to the window frame. Additionally, a window film can help to make the window resistant to entry. There actually are window films built for this purpose--an intruder can break the glass, but the shards remain in place, held together by the film. I don't know enough about the qualities of the films on the market to recommend one over the others, but this is one example: http://www.shattergard.com/home.html Finally, combining these efforts at physically strengthening the window with an audible intrusion alarm would significantly increase the security of your bedroom window.

 

[Oyeboten]

Couldn't she learn Jujitsu?

 

[conw]

Sounds like the Dalai Lama needs to learn more about the anatomy of humans, sheesh.

Honestly I have no idea why she wouldn't want a gun in the house. The only logical inroad I can see that you could make would be "Either we can wait for the cops to arrive if something bad happens, who have guns, or I can have a gun and we will have an increased chance of survival." If she is not opposed to the cops protecting her life with lethal force, this is a logical inconsistency that you can split wide open so to speak. If she is truly opposed to anyone defending her life with lethal force, as backwards as it sounds I guess you can tell her that you only want a gun to protect yourself.

 

[lebowski]

Can you put some kind of security film on the window? I'm curious as to how well the stuff works, I'm thinking of installing some on my own place.

 

[conw]

an alarm would be a first step on the window. not too great without a gun to back it up, but better than nothing. those $9 dealextreme.com, RF activated alarms are worth looking into (I reviewed them a bit back, they are vib activated). other than that, the classic concept of putting a table or desk with stuff on it is a guaranteed way to slow someone down.

 

[Sox]

Read your own signature line. Duh!

 

[astrolite]

I would never push her towards something she is uncomfortable with.

You'll never convince her without making her uncomfortable. You've been a responsible gun owner, so her fears appear to be mostly irrational. Most phobias are only countered when exposure is made to the fear and it slowly (sometimes quickly) dissipates.

If someone were scared of spiders (I mean deathly afraid!) you might first start by putting one in a jar away from the person. This analogy could be translated to having your gun in storage - it is secure from her, but she knows it exists.

The next step may be to bring the spider in the jar closer - which could translate to having the firearm in the house, but still secure.

Eventually the open sight of a spider is no longer a reason to panic, since the fear has been deadened.

If you take this approach it is probably the least uncomfortable way to defeat an irrational fear.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

Interesting cultural interaction. In my experience, although the woman manages the house in Japan, the man is absolutely in charge. Perhaps that is just the situation in the sub-group I stayed with.

I would think one of the wireless area alarms available at low cost (places such as Harbor Freight) might help. I put one on my drive in a partially hidden location deliberately positioned so that anyone setting it off at night will hear the alarm sound at the house and they will see the red warning light flashing on the alarm sensor itself. Anyone ignoring the alarm is serious and so is my response. Of course, the other similar alarms are set so that an intruder will not hear them but I will. Try putting one so it covers the access area to your window and try it out.

 

[geologist]

I respect my wifes values and she respects mine.

Be firm.

 

[conw]

astrolite, that technique is to be used with care...usually administered by someone who knows what they are doing. It can easily make a phobia worse.

 

[fireflyfather]

Mr. Rogers: That is a common misconception, or at least stereotype. While undoubtedly true often enough, it's not universal. There are regional differences (my wife is from Gunma, and let me tell you, the women there are known for being "strong"). But even more than that, there is a public persona, and "truth" aka "tatemae/hone". As a guest you aren't always able to see the whole family dynamic. I often don't even with my in-laws. If it weren't for the wife's side-comments, I would have been clueless sometimes, and I'm not ignorant of the language.

Shadowbob: It's not a dominance issue. I'm not concerned with macho attitude. And if you read more closely, I already own quite a few firearms. Hell, I pour my own lead bullets from recycled lead. I'm concerned with personal/family safety and at the same time preserving a harmonious family atmosphere. The key thing is how to make the transition from secondary storage to in-the home storage *without* making life difficult on the missus/myself. If you can infer at all, you will realize I've already made the decision to move them indoors. This is a *family tactics/verbal judo (pun intended)* question.

To the others who have provided information about window hardening thank you. I'm going to look into that and some alternate way to get some night-time airflow. Maybe a fan in the master bathroom to pull fresh air through the other window might let us keep the vulnerable one closed & secured.

 

[Mauserguy]

As far as moving the gun indoors goes, I would purchase one of those quick opening handgun safes and mount it under the bed or wherever you can. Don't ask for permission, just take the actions you are required as a husband to protect you home. You are responsible for you family, protect it.

I would then take your wife to the range to allow her to lose her fear of firearms.

Also, get security film for your window and talk to a window guy about installing security mesh screens.
Mauserguy

 

[Butter]

Firefly, my wife is also Japanese and were up north in Torrance. However, with that said, her ubringing is a little different as she moved to Guam at one point with her family. With that move came a friend whose father was a former military man and who owned and ran a range which she got to shoot at for free. Her brother-in-law is also a hunter and was a former cop. Guns weren't/aren't bad...only the people who use them inappropriately. She knows this by example.

The odd thing about Japanese culture, and I am vested in that a bit with friends and work, is that many have no problems with considering a knife as a good defensive weapon, but guns are anathema to many due to culture. On the other hand, my boss is Japanese (now a naturalized citizen of the good ol'USA) and shoots Sigs and has no broblems with me bringing my range bag to the office.

To get back to your question though, defense of your person and your family, I believe, is a duty...and one not to be taken lightly--and to be impressed upon by all who are in your family. If you have a child, would she defend the child with life and limb? If criminals break into your home, wouldn't having something more than a rolled up newspaper to defend oneself be better since if you can't defend yourself, you won't be able to defend your child. That's the reasoning I have given. Also, to add to that, make sure she understands the ascription of any morality or maliciousness that is applied to a lump of steel and plastic is baseless since that recognition falls directly on the opperator of said tool for the reasons of its utility. Or why give them to cops after the fact to find the bad guys and limit potential victims access to those same tools during a serious crisis?

As far as the religious connotation goes, there's something to self preservation that mandates a recognition of why one SHOULD defend oneself in the face of violent intent, despite not doing this in anger and hatred. There are Buddhist precepts for this as well.

One final thing, try to find a firearms class that may have some Japanese instructors or other high level students/trainers/IDPA/IPSC participants. Comfort with similar cultural ties to some students involved in the class may be a deal maker. And some defensive pistol classes might be fun all around.